How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

How will you vote in this fall's BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Current System of "First Past the Post"
114
72%
Proportional Representation - Option 1 = Dual Member Proportional
10
6%
Proportional Representation - Option 2 = Mixed Member Proportional
25
16%
Proportional Representation - Option 3 = Rural-Urban Proportional Representation
10
6%
 
Total votes : 159

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 24th, 2018, 3:45 pm

Urb - not so sure the BC NDP did not get the result they wanted.

Horgan looked pretty stupid as a fat old guy mouthing the words "woke" and "lit". Horgan's debate performance was really weak.

Pretty sure "sticky fingers" Horgan recognizes what is in his personal interest - which was to maintain the status of the BC NDP/LEAP as "the only viable alternative" - otherwise, their incompetence would shed voters like a Persian cat shedding hair.

My neighbor might just be right - the BC NDP "sabotaged" the PR crowd's efforts.

Not sure he is, but the BC NDP/LEAP "effort" was certainly incompetent. That is, however, just in character for them - so they may just have been giving it their best effort - a D-.
Anyone but Scheer - career pols are know nothings.
hobbyguy
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10414
Likes: 2707 posts
Liked in: 10915 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Smurf » Dec 24th, 2018, 4:08 pm

Sorry Hobbyguy, check again, I believe it was a definite "F".
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

3 people like this post.
User avatar
Smurf
Guru
 
Posts: 9803
Likes: 16824 posts
Liked in: 6624 posts
Joined: Aug 12th, 2006, 8:55 am
Location: Okanagan BC

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby twobits » Dec 24th, 2018, 4:53 pm

As I said suggested earlier in this thread, this was a NDP planned and engineered referendum to intentionally be defeated. The referendum fulfilled the Weaver deal for support.
It is actually Weaver that looks like the incompetent here. His deal with the NDP for support somehow did not contain any provision on PR vote options.
During the whole conflated discussion of ballot options did we ever hear a rat's fart of input from Weaver. He is looking like a giant 6ft 4in chump right now. And he is exactly that.....a chump that actually got played by Horgan and Eby.
We are only 6 moves into this chess match between the two fools. IMO, much more to come in the coming months as I cannot believe Weaver is just going to lay down for this one.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

Troutcreeker likes this post.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 7223
Likes: 1092 posts
Liked in: 3855 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 26th, 2018, 4:54 pm

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-last-gasps-for-electoral-reform/

Just proves the people of BC are getting smarter. The losers and propagandists are moaning.

"B.C. MP Nathan Cullen, a New Democrat, hopes reforms may take root in Quebec and PEI and maintains the B.C. referendum failed because of an over-complicated question and a more direct message from the No side."

Nathan Cullen is the biggest know nothing in Ottawa next to Avi Lewis. He is absolutely a useless loser. Can't win? Find a way to cheat? Is that the NDP mantra?

"Lyndsay Poaps, executive director for the Leadnow non-profit group that campaigned for change, said she and her team were disappointed at the outcome of the B.C. referendum."

Oh goody, the US funded professional agitator is upset. That definitely means the people of BC made the right choice!

And then a voice of reason:

I hope it’s done,” said former B.C. NDP premier Ujjal Dosanjh, a critic of reform.

“This is the third go around, if not fourth – I can’t count anymore – and every time people have resoundingly defeated any attempt to change the system.... Those that voted have resoundingly sent a message to those that want to change [the electoral system]: 'Please don’t touch it.’”

The result says to others in Canada that B.C. is pleased with its system, he said.

“We’ve debated and discussed this issue.”

But we can be sure, the losers and professional agitators will be back. They have no choice, their personal salaries and pensions need to have division rather than listen to the democratic result.

Nathan Cullen is so daft. Listen up Nathan, there was a vote, no excuses, you LOST - again. Now go away and cry in your latte.
Anyone but Scheer - career pols are know nothings.

4 people like this post.
hobbyguy
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10414
Likes: 2707 posts
Liked in: 10915 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Urbane » Dec 27th, 2018, 9:30 pm

These days when the BC government does something that ends up as a positive you can automatically add the word "unwittingly" to the mix. From Kelly McParland:

British Columbia’s government hasn’t exactly acted as a bulwark of Canadian national interests of late. It’s too busy blocking Alberta’s ability to ship its oil via a new pipeline, while at the same time eagerly consuming said oil, building numerous pipelines to ship B.C. natural gas and enjoying the benefits of Vancouver’s massive coal shipping terminal.

But it did recently do the rest of us a service, largely by accident. In calling a referendum on its electoral system, consummately bungling the job and thus producing a ringing victory for good old first-past-the-post. This is the third time B.C. has tried to sneak “reform” past its population, and the third time it’s failed. In the latest vote, opposition actually increased: 61 per cent rejected the proposal; only 39 per cent favoured it. Fewer than 43 per cent of voters bothered to cast a ballot. It’s the latest in a losing streak that includes failed efforts in Ontario, Ottawa and Prince Edward Island. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s Liberals abandoned a national reform plan when it became obvious Canadians weren’t enthused, and didn’t favour Trudeau’s personal choice in any case.

With any luck, this latest failure will put to rest the notion that Canadians are mad keen on changing the way we elect governments, especially among politicians who then decry the system that got them their job and launch some convoluted effort to change it all to a system no one understands.
Full column: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/kelly- ... ral-reform

6 people like this post.
User avatar
Urbane
Buddha of the Board
 
Posts: 22039
Likes: 10424 posts
Liked in: 13139 posts
Joined: Jul 8th, 2007, 7:41 pm

Media Censorship on Pro Rep?

Postby miss_sterious » Dec 27th, 2018, 10:43 pm

Just curious as to why there has been no media coverage on the NDPs disastrous loss in the pro-rep election?
miss_sterious
Fledgling
 
Posts: 212
Likes: 1 post
Liked in: 140 posts
Joined: Jun 30th, 2010, 4:32 pm

Re: Media Censorship on Pro Rep?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Dec 28th, 2018, 10:30 am

miss_sterious wrote:Just curious as to why there has been no media coverage on the NDPs disastrous loss in the pro-rep election?


There is so much failure to report from the NDP that it gets lost in the shuffle.
Justin Trudeau or Kathleen Wynne - who was the bigger troglodyte?

4 people like this post.
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Admiral HMS Castanet
 
Posts: 34328
Likes: 16586 posts
Liked in: 24230 posts
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 9:13 am
Location: Far away from any Leftists

Re: Media Censorship on Pro Rep?

Postby blueliner » Dec 28th, 2018, 11:51 am

miss_sterious wrote:Just curious as to why there has been no media coverage on the NDPs disastrous loss in the pro-rep election?

Well maybe something about Left Wing Union media might have something to do about the lack of reporting :smt045

3 people like this post.
blueliner
Fledgling
 
Posts: 319
Likes: 1285 posts
Liked in: 413 posts
Joined: Jan 31st, 2017, 1:46 pm

Re: Media Censorship on Pro Rep?

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 28th, 2018, 12:54 pm

blueliner wrote:
miss_sterious wrote:Just curious as to why there has been no media coverage on the NDPs disastrous loss in the pro-rep election?

Well maybe something about Left Wing Union media might have something to do about the lack of reporting :smt045


There has actually been a lot of media coverage. Not so much on TV, as they follow the news cycles very quickly.

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/article_5c50f728-0a43-11e9-bd4f-b3990c9033c5.html

"The prospect of a minimum of two future provincial elections where the Greens could hold a dozen or more seats in the legislature is gone. Even more significantly, voters in Nanaimo favoured FPTP by 54.1 per cent."

SNIP

"This result is a flat-out disaster for Weaver and the Greens. Even with the deck stacked completely in their favour by hinging the outcome on the overall provincial total, regardless of how the vote went by district, giving Greater Vancouver a huge sway over the rest of B.C., PR proponents successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

A major Green platform was soundly rejected right across the province, taking the possibility of the Greens evolving into a serious third party alternative with it.

Lastly, any power Weaver had over Horgan and the NDP government has all but evaporated. If Weaver doesn’t support Horgan during all upcoming confidence vote in the legislature, that would almost certainly spark an immediate provincial election and the very real prospect of political oblivion for the Greens.

Worst of all for Weaver, Horgan is free to blow up their deal whenever is convenient for him."

That's just one example of many print articles.
Anyone but Scheer - career pols are know nothings.

twobits likes this post.
hobbyguy
Walks on Forum Water
 
Posts: 10414
Likes: 2707 posts
Liked in: 10915 posts
Joined: Jan 20th, 2011, 9:10 pm

Re: Media Censorship on Pro Rep?

Postby twobits » Dec 28th, 2018, 4:40 pm

hobbyguy wrote:There has actually been a lot of media coverage. Not so much on TV, as they follow the news cycles very quickly.

http://www.kelownadailycourier.ca/opinion/article_5c50f728-0a43-11e9-bd4f-b3990c9033c5.html

"The prospect of a minimum of two future provincial elections where the Greens could hold a dozen or more seats in the legislature is gone. Even more significantly, voters in Nanaimo favoured FPTP by 54.1 per cent."

SNIP

"This result is a flat-out disaster for Weaver and the Greens. Even with the deck stacked completely in their favour by hinging the outcome on the overall provincial total, regardless of how the vote went by district, giving Greater Vancouver a huge sway over the rest of B.C., PR proponents successfully snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

A major Green platform was soundly rejected right across the province, taking the possibility of the Greens evolving into a serious third party alternative with it.

Lastly, any power Weaver had over Horgan and the NDP government has all but evaporated. If Weaver doesn’t support Horgan during all upcoming confidence vote in the legislature, that would almost certainly spark an immediate provincial election and the very real prospect of political oblivion for the Greens.

Worst of all for Weaver, Horgan is free to blow up their deal whenever is convenient for him."

That's just one example of many print articles.


The referendum question as presented is the only smart tactical move I can recall the NDP have ever made. Credit has to go to some hired consultant that we will never hear the name of cuz there is no one within the current NDP machine smart enough to engineer this coup.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

4 people like this post.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 7223
Likes: 1092 posts
Liked in: 3855 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 29th, 2018, 2:51 pm

Looks like New Brunswick is experiencing the same situation as we are here in BC.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brun ... urv21ZkKQ8


"My hope is that by doing this the Liberal Party will recognize that it indeed needs to choose a new leader and in a time frame that makes sense for the party," Gallant said.

He also suggested there is some urgency because Premier Blaine Higgs, who has the support of three People's Alliance members, is governing "like he has a majority."

"He has given the People's Alliance all the cards and therefore control of the government's agenda."


Talk about deja vu. :200:

Perhaps Higgs and Horgan are brothers from a different mother. [icon_lol2.gif]
“A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.” -Bob Dylan

2 people like this post.
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Guru
 
Posts: 5461
Likes: 5724 posts
Liked in: 7818 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Smurf » Dec 29th, 2018, 3:10 pm

Doesn't seem like these unholy alliances are working out very well. The ones people like the least seem to be controlling the game and proving why they are at the bottom in the first place. We are in the unlucky position of having two useless parties in control of the game :200:


EDIT TO ADD:

We should all thank GOD or the people with common sense the referendum went the way it did.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

The happiest of people don't necessarily have the best of everything, they just make the most of everything that comes their way.

3 people like this post.
User avatar
Smurf
Guru
 
Posts: 9803
Likes: 16824 posts
Liked in: 6624 posts
Joined: Aug 12th, 2006, 8:55 am
Location: Okanagan BC

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Corneliousrooster » Dec 29th, 2018, 4:04 pm

Smurf wrote:

EDIT TO ADD:

We should all thank GOD or the people with common sense the referendum went the way it did.


hmmmm..... it is FPTP that produced BC and New Brunswick's current power divide - so in your assessment what we have is the product of "common sense" .... surprised then that there is so much whining....

The difference would be that if the referendum went the other way Liberals might actually have some sway and the "free" votes might actually have some members brave enough to vote not necessarily out of their parties playbook but rather vote with a conscience that may best represent the constituents that voted for them..... but yeah that would be dumb, much better to continue with the system that would be best suited to lemmings.
User avatar
Corneliousrooster
Grand Pooh-bah
 
Posts: 2543
Likes: 17 posts
Liked in: 239 posts
Joined: Oct 14th, 2008, 10:20 am

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Dec 29th, 2018, 4:26 pm

Corneliousrooster wrote:
Smurf wrote:

EDIT TO ADD:

We should all thank GOD or the people with common sense the referendum went the way it did.


hmmmm..... it is FPTP that produced BC and New Brunswick's current power divide - so in your assessment what we have is the product of "common sense" .... surprised then that there is so much whining....

The difference would be that if the referendum went the other way Liberals might actually have some sway and the "free" votes might actually have some members brave enough to vote not necessarily out of their parties playbook but rather vote with a conscience that may best represent the constituents that voted for them..... but yeah that would be dumb, much better to continue with the system that would be best suited to lemmings.


So says a chicken. [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif]
“A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and gets to bed at night, and in between he does what he wants to do.” -Bob Dylan
User avatar
Urban Cowboy
Guru
 
Posts: 5461
Likes: 5724 posts
Liked in: 7818 posts
Joined: Apr 27th, 2013, 3:47 pm

Re: How will you vote in BC Electoral Reform Referendum?

Postby twobits » Dec 29th, 2018, 4:49 pm

Corneliousrooster wrote:hmmmm..... it is FPTP that produced BC and New Brunswick's current power divide - so in your assessment what we have is the product of "common sense" .... surprised then that there is so much whining....

The difference would be that if the referendum went the other way Liberals might actually have some sway and the "free" votes might actually have some members brave enough to vote not necessarily out of their parties playbook but rather vote with a conscience that may best represent the constituents that voted for them..... but yeah that would be dumb, much better to continue with the system that would be best suited to lemmings.


FPTP may have allowed this current governance, but the defeat of ProRep has made that outcome just a rather normal aberration in electoral voting cycles rather than entrenched forever.
If you think "back room deals" are problematic with FPTP........think hard about what happens with minority govt's that PR rep would guarantee forever.
Let there be a king for an election mandate cycle for cripes sake. A king that doesn't have to kiss any arse to get legislation and governance done without having to horse trade with a Weaver or whatever new fringe party shows up.
It's only four years! They fail....they get booted.
I will accept four years of chitty governance if it means I retain the right to remove them. Better that than a perpetual system of horse trades, side deals, and watered down legislation just to give the illusion that there is some kind of governance from a coalition of over paid MLA's spawned by a PR system. There is no clear target to point a finger at for chitty governance with coalition govt's.
And people do understand this. That is why PC's sacrifice their vote to Lib....Greens to NDP. People seem to want majority governance if even for four painful years rather than a legislature of bickering idiots fluffing feathers and squat gets done. Lord knows it's bad enough in majority govt's.
Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

The problem with the gene pool is that there is no lifeguard.

2 people like this post.
twobits
Guru
 
Posts: 7223
Likes: 1092 posts
Liked in: 3855 posts
Joined: Nov 25th, 2010, 9:44 am
Location: GPS says Dead Elbow Utah. Think I'm lost

PreviousNext

Return to B.C.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ckil, CommonCrawl [Bot] and 4 guests