Holes in new 911 policy

[csm]

This totally angers me. Nothing more than empire building.

The object is to have the people on the street that can do the job, not have other agencies running around watering down a system that is way understaffed and very over worked, and we all know the politicians like to save money.

If someone collapsed in front of a firehall, my question is, "why didn't they run over there automatically since it was in front of the station anyway instead of waiting to be called? Then, like any other responsible citizen called 911 themselves to ensure a paramedic unit was responding, and under what status - Code 2 or 3?

You actually want me to start relating some of my experiences with having fire at virtually every call? I would be most happy to oblige - and it would be a best seller.

I also have first hand knowledge that in most cases, Fire does NOT get there first as they would like everyone to believe, even as short-staffed as the Ambulance Service is, they do pretty good, and the statistics will back that up. In fact, many times fire are cancelled yet they still show up.

I, as a Kelowna Taxpayer, already pay for EMS which is funded Provincially, and the training is very high and very expensive, most of which is initially paid for by the Paramedics themselves, and I am against having to have my taxes go up significantly because Fire wants to build their stats to get more personnel and more stations ( with bedrooms), at my expense - not to mention all their training would be "Paid".

And this doesn't even include the costs of licensing and license maintenance that is required - much of which would be paid out in overtime or additional holidays.

Delta is a great example of an overfunded Fire Service due to an underfunded EMS system, and is totally out of control.

I am also against the dangers imposed to the public by a 70,000 lb fire truck worth over a million dollars screaming down the road full lights and sirens to attend a little old lady with a skin tear to her elbow or a fender bender, yet they shut the cops down for chasing a dangerous criminal, and stop them from responding in emergency mode to most MVA's! How logical is that?

The problem lay in the fact the staffing levels of BCEHS need to be increased, NOT Fire!! BCEHS doesn't fight fires, Fire shouldn't be doing medical calls - it's simply empire building and more money for the IAFF.

Hey, you may as well get hospital cleaning staff a couple of courses so they can watch hallway patients instead of a nurse or dragging an already overworked and understaffed Paramedic Crew off the streets.

The whole Okanagan hasn't had a staffing increase in the Ambulance Service in the 19+ years I've lived here. Not one additional unit - because the Liberals were using fire departments more and more at direct cost to the home owner, not the province, thereby, saving them from having to put in more ambulances. How many additional Firefighters have been hired on the excuse of more Medical responses? LOTS - and a 5th fully staffed Station. Kind of paradoxical, don't you think? Kelowna only has 2 Paramedic Stations.

My advice - stick to what you know.

Yes, we need Fire Department to fight fires, provide fire prevention and continue with assisting BCEHS in rescue situations and other area's they may be required - NOT every call.

Emergency Pre-Hospital medicine is highly complicated and requires highly specialized training, experience and people able to deliver it at the scene for a better outcome for the patient.

That Paramedic walking through the door has a "Medical License", not a "First Aid Ticket" - and is strictly bound by training and protocol that is province wide.

Stop trying to steal his/her job and watering down a system and driving my home owner taxes through the roof because you need "More to do to justify your manpower ( not women power - they haven't hired any by the way)"!

[Drip_Torch]

Your post has many salient points, but I'm curious about this "new policy" you're alluding to? Are you pointing to the constant download of services onto the local governments, or is there an actual new policy coming into effect that you're trying to draw attention to?

ETA: Okay, found it: https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/235355 ... 911-policy

I share many of your concerns with the first responder program, but I do so with the experience of hindsight on the conditions that gave rise to the program. My community was one of the first to trail blaze that project and the rationale behind doing so was solid. On a best case we were waiting 20 minutes for a car. If we were waiting on a PT car it could be 45 to an hour. We lobbied for a car in the community and even retrofitted our fire hall to give temporary facilities while waiting for the province to fix the situation. In the interim, being a logging town, many of us had advanced IFA tickets anyway, so we started augmenting that with the local EMA training for the part timers. Our improvement district made some tweaks to our bylaws and the dispatch policies were changed. We started rolling to medical calls, but more often than not when the call paged out, closest trained resource would simply show up at the call. Duty IC would assess, and provided the patient care was happening with the on scene resources, would often cancel the rig and full crew.

In the beginning, it wasn’t about empire building, or maintaining stats – it was about looking after and out for your neighbours.

[Drip_Torch]

In the beginning, it wasn’t about empire building, or maintaining stats – it was about looking after and out for your neighbours.

And I guess I'll add that I'm not trying to say the first responder program is all about empire building and maintaining stats today. I was also involved with the lifepack 200 program that introduced AED's into the Province. (That test project happened during Expo 86) I know early intervention works and I think a number of communities in British Columbia enjoy a great benefit from the minimal service delivery standard that follows the first responder program.

Still, I do agree to an extent with what you're putting down and I am left shaking my head at some circumstances that I see today. BC Chiefs, EMBC and JIBC could certainly use a retool and a retrofit - IMHO. Take a look at the courses that give rise to career advancement in the BC Fire Services and you'll start to see some holes. Enter into training in JIBC Fire Academy and you'll see even more holes.

Stay in school kids? pfff… play sports, quit school after Grade 12, and go spend a few months in Texas getting your NFPA 1001 - that's the ticket seeing your name in the local SOFI.

[Hurtlander]

Wow, big city problems.......
If you’re worried about quick response times, stay away from rural BC where paramedics are part time employees that only get paid when called out, which is the reason there’s such a shortage of paramedics in rural BC, you can’t make a living at it.. and fire departments are all volunteers that when getting a call out have to first drive to the fire hall from home or work.

[dogspoiler]

The primary concern should be the patient. All the bragging, complaining, politics, procedures and budgets often detract from patient care.

[seewood]

My experience while 19 year in POC fire departments is if the jurisdiction wants to offer first responder services, they will, along with the corresponding costs.
Summerland nor Squamish( while there) for example do not offer first responder but will respond for " ambulance assist" ( obese person lift perhaps or awkward stretcher move)
I can see OK Falls, Kaleden or Naramata for example offering FR as the nearest ambulance may be 15 to 30 minutes away.
In Penticton, I suspect city council offers FR until an ambulance shows up because of the number of seniors in the area. If they are willing to pay the extra costs for the FR program, fill their boots.
A number of years ago I did get to see the response sheet for Penticton department and there were something like 2100 medical calls out of 2400 total. Great for the argument to have a career department ( total call response) but as mentioned, how many medical calls were duplication of service because ambulance arrived first or within a very short time after fire?
In my opinion, if the jurisdiction wants to pay for it( FR), why not supply it.

[Omnitheo]

CSM thinks they are entitled to make demands on anything their tax dollars go towards, and frequently posts such rants “as a taxpayer”.

Fact is, this is flawed reasoning. You pay your taxes in order to live in this country, province, municipality, and it is up to those jurisdictions what to do with those tax dollars. If you object, you can either vote for change or move to a different jurisdiction, however outside of that you really have no entitlement to make demands of your tax dollars.

Think of your Costco membership. You pay in order to have access to Costco and what they provide. But simply paying their membership doesn’t suddenly entitle you to make demands about their store locations, or how wide their aisles are, or when their employees should take breaks. Your tax dollars are the same. You are paying a membership to the city of kelowna, the province of BC, and the country of Canada.

[liisgo]

If someone collapsed in front of a firehall, my question is, "why didn't they run over there automatically since it was in front of the station anyway instead of waiting to be called? Then, like any other responsible citizen called 911 themselves to ensure a paramedic unit was responding, and under what status - Code 2 or 3?
My question is, if the collapse happened in front of an "ambulance station"???

You actually want me to start relating some of my experiences with having fire at virtually every call? I would be most happy to oblige - and it would be a best seller.
Interesting you have some other issue at play here to feel your experiences could write a book.

Stop trying to steal his/her job and watering down a system and driving my home owner taxes through the roof because you need "More to do to justify your manpower ( not women power - they haven't hired any by the way)"!

What is your issue here with making the women power statement and an issue?
I have had 2 experiences with needing an ambulance and thank god that the fire was part of it.
One is my father suffering from a fall needed to be picked up from the floor and put onto a stretcher and then on a board to get him out of the basement. The 2 very small women ambulance workers that showed up, getting paid the same as the others I imagine, could not and did not attempt nor could have done this move. Absolutely incapable for sure. The 3 fire fighters did all the work for these 2 ambulance personnel and it made me wonder how they get the job in the first place if they cannot do what is required.
The 2nd was outside our building when an elderly person was having a heart attack and ambulance was unable to get into the front lobby because of the locked doors. The firemen, had a outside box on the building with keys in it.
So I guess, while yes, its poor management on both sides not to have a more efficient response system in place with ambulance for certain calls etc. it is also very apparent that depending on which ambulance workers get sent to a call whether or not they can do what is expected of them without more help.

[dontrump]

and we all know the politicians like to save money.

I assume that was a attempt at humour was it not

[dontrump]

I have always thought it on the far side of ridiculous that a 911 call requires ambulance police and fire must respond
there has to be a better mouse trap