Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Merry » Jun 2nd, 2019, 6:48 pm

southy wrote:So this is what Plecas's sidekick Mullen is up to.

As previously discussed, Plecas felt it was necessary to preserve evidence that may be needed in a future investigation.
And I see absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Plecas wanted to independently copy the computer hard drives because even supposedly secure records at the legislature have been known to disappear.

“We’ve had at least five separate incidents in very recent times where documents have mysteriously gone missing,” Mullen said. “If there are future investigations or questions, we don’t want to be in situation again where we have to say, ‘Oh, we can’t find it. It’s gone.’”

Mullen said the copied computer records have been securely stored away from the legislature by e-Forensics.

https://theprovince.com/news/bc-politic ... -gets-ugly
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby flamingfingers » Jun 2nd, 2019, 7:02 pm

southy:

So Plecas and Mullen should have kept their mouths shut and taken advantage of the 'James Gravy Train'???

Says everything about your ethics and morals.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby mikest2 » Jun 2nd, 2019, 7:19 pm

flamingfingers wrote:^^So Plecas and Mullen should have kept their mouths shut and taken advantage of the 'James Gravy Train'???

Says everything about your ethics and morals.


No, perhaps they should have done their jobs, and left the investigations to professionals.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Merry » Jun 2nd, 2019, 7:21 pm

mikest2 wrote: perhaps they should have done their jobs, and left the investigations to professionals.

If Plecas hadn't got involved, there never would have been an investigation for the "professionals" to perform.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby flamingfingers » Jun 2nd, 2019, 7:26 pm

Merry wrote:

If Plecas hadn't got involved, there never would have been an investigation for the "professionals" to perform.


Quoted for truth!
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Country plough boy » Jun 2nd, 2019, 7:58 pm

Id say voting for any of the three clown parties makes people look pretty silly at this point. BC Conservatives are only choice left
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby mikest2 » Jun 2nd, 2019, 8:05 pm

Merry wrote:

If Plecas hadn't got involved, there never would have been an investigation for the "professionals" to perform.[/quote]

Unfortunately you cannot say that in any certainty, many an ongoing investigation has been compromised by wannabe detectives.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby flamingfingers » Jun 2nd, 2019, 8:15 pm

^^Ummm.. who initiated the investigation?

August 2018

The Speaker, clerk and sergeant-at arms visit England again. On this trip, both James and Lenz are accompanied by their wives. In the Plecas report, documents call into question the accuracy of vacation days used, transportation claims and per diems charged by the two men. Eyebrow raising expenses claimed include a suit, cufflinks and gift store purchases.

Back in Victoria, the Speaker's office forwards information gathered in Mullen's investigation to the RCMP.


Timeline:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british- ... -1.4996467
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Carrs Landing Viking » Jun 2nd, 2019, 8:49 pm

As far as I am concerned, Plecas and his pet monkey should be thrown out of the legislature.

Plecas thinks he is Inspector Clouseau, and Mullen thinks he is Kato.

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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Urbane » Jun 2nd, 2019, 8:50 pm

    Merry wrote:If Plecas hadn't got involved, there never would have been an investigation for the "professionals" to perform.
One way that he got involved was by actually approving some of the very expenditures that he later chastised. And he participated in trips that he later chastised as well. Beverley McLachin got it right.

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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Merry » Jun 3rd, 2019, 7:16 am

I'm not suggesting that he couldn't have handled the situation differently, because of course he could. But I do believe that he deserves credit for bringing the situation to the Public's attention.

This abuse of public funds had been going on for years, and NOBODY (neither LIberal nor NDP) had done anything about it. And I doubt they ever would have if Plecas hadn't chosen to get involved.

This story ought to have been about so much more than just the appropriateness, or otherwise, of Plecas's involvement but, as usual, politics got in the way.

For example, why has so little been said about WHY none of the other politicians called out what was clearly bad behaviour on the part of a Senior Civil Servant, long before it got to this point? Could it possibly be, as was hinted at fairly early on in this scandal, that some of them had their own spending abuses to hide? Could that be why the employee found to have taken advantage of his position to help "feather his own nest" has not been asked to repay any of those misappropriated funds, and is instead being allowed to collect his undeserved Government pension?

Those are the kinds of questions we should be asking, instead of continually harping on about whether or not Plecas approached the situation in the right way. For better, or worse, Plecas did what he did, and some good has come of it. But it seems to me that there are a lot more "players" in this story who appear to be getting a "free pass" when it comes to explaining their own actions (or lack of action).
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Smurf » Jun 3rd, 2019, 7:20 am

Urbane I'll bet if the RCMP or other police took those actions in an investigation the case would be thrown out for entrapment. Similar to Nuttall and Korody.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby Merry » Jun 3rd, 2019, 7:27 am

Doesn't is bother you at all that nobody had taken steps, prior to Plecas getting involved, to attempt to curb the clear misuse of Public funds by a high ranking Civil Servant?

The spending was so blatant, I don't buy the excuse that no-one noticed. Plecas certainly noticed, almost as soon as he assumed Office. So why didn't anyone else?

Those are the kinds of questions we need answers to, yet which very few people seem to be asking.
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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby rustled » Jun 3rd, 2019, 9:22 am

Merry wrote:Doesn't is bother you at all that nobody had taken steps, prior to Plecas getting involved, to attempt to curb the clear misuse of Public funds by a high ranking Civil Servant?

The spending was so blatant, I don't buy the excuse that no-one noticed. Plecas certainly noticed, almost as soon as he assumed Office. So why didn't anyone else?

Those are the kinds of questions we need answers to, yet which very few people seem to be asking.

Of course it does. Clearly, we should NOT excuse what was going on, and clearly we should NOT excuse those who should have been on top of this before it went this far.

It does not necessarily follow that we should therefore make excuses for Plecas's behaviour.

McLachlin pointed out he was NOT doing his job properly. He has injected himself MUCH too far into the situation, and some of you would have us believe that is because no one else could be trusted to do their jobs. That is patently ridiculous, and I hope it's not what you truly mean to suggest.

It went this far because Plecas was left to his own devices in a way no speaker before him has been left to his own devices.

Feel free to examine why he was left to his own devices by all three parties. It's obvious to most of us: Plecas showed he is a political opportunist who cannot be trusted not to put his own personal gratification first.

That isolation may also be why he was more willing to blow the whistle, but it in NO way excuses him proceeding as he did prior to blowing the whistle, or continuing with being overly involved after having blown that whistle.

I cannot, in my wildest imaginings, picture JWR suggesting when people hear her story "they will want to throw up". Despite others' accusations that she was setting traps to destroy people, it seems quite clear to me she was doing everything she could to save them from themselves and ensure the office she was responsible for was properly serving us, following the rules and fully accountable. I certainly don't agree with everything she did while in her position, but IMO she did what she could to prevent corruption and loss of faith in our institutions. This is quite the opposite of what Plecas did.

Plecas did what he did because he did not understand his role until McLachlin explained it to him (clearly that explanation didn't take), and/or because he thinks he's the only one who can save the legislature and wants our eternal gratitude, and/or because he's completely losing his mind.

I cannot, in my wildest imaginings, picture ANY speaker of ANY party behaving like this in ANY government where a party was NOT attempting to cling to power, and the government then choosing NOT to make any genuine attempt to rein that speaker in.

So what gives? Why is Horgan ignoring or excusing his behaviour instead of reining him in?

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Re: Legislative clerk and Sergeant of Arms suspended

Postby southy » Jun 3rd, 2019, 9:44 am

Rustled .. Thank you. You have outlined precisely what has and is occurring with Plecas, his sidekick Mullen and the Ndp/g. If I could give you 50 likes I certainly would. Great post.

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