An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby featfan » Jan 13th, 2019, 3:58 pm

part 2.
This is a part of heritage that alot of Canadians do not know about.
History in pictures.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby dontrump » Jan 13th, 2019, 4:16 pm

totally irrelevant to someone putting a gas pipeline though uninhabited wilderness
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby normaM » Jan 13th, 2019, 5:52 pm

Found this to be a good article, of course they should have consulted with the Hereditary Chiefs
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... s-law-who/
As keepers of the Land they have concerns

Love the pictures you posted btw :/
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby blue iguana » Jan 13th, 2019, 8:53 pm

^^^
‘But she said the politicians and the company would have been wiser to deal directly with the hereditary chiefs as well.’

These documents tell a different story. If the hereditary chiefs were not included in talks, was it possibly by their choice?!?

Coastal GasLink Pipeline Documents
https://projects.eao.gov.bc.ca/p/coasta ... eline/docs
(Double click on Consultation Plan Folder)

Aboriginal Consultation Plan - April 26, 2013
4.1.1 Consultation Activities Completed to Date
Coastal GasLink’s initial contact with each Aboriginal group was with Chiefs, Councillors or other people to whom Coastal GasLink was directed by elected Aboriginal group leaders. From that point, Coastal GasLink continued to meet with political leaders unless that responsibility was delegated in writing to other officials, consultants or lawyers. Any formal agreements that Aboriginal groups and Coastal GasLink enter into are to be signed by political leaders of the Aboriginal groups on behalf of the community. Coastal GasLink is also identifying the appropriate hereditary leaders and seeking permission to discuss the Project directly with them. Coastal GasLink’s objective is to ensure that both elected and hereditary leaders are fully engaged by the Project.

Response from EOA to Office of the Wet’suwet’en’s Letter of April 23, 2014, dated May 15, 2014
https://projects.eao.gov.bc.ca/p/coasta ... eline/docs (double click on folder)
<snip>
We also look forward to meeting with the Hereditary Chiefs of your Office, at your earliest convenience, as was committed on May 8, 2014.

EAO’s Assessment of an Application for Certificate Amendment
https://projects.eao.gov.bc.ca/p/coasta ... eline/docs
(Double click on Amendment Report SHAR)
<snip>
Coordinated consultation with OGC with the following First Nations whose territories overlapped the SHAR route was undertaken: Office of the Wet’suwet’en, Wet’suwet’en First Nation, Nee Tahi Buhn Indian Band, Skin Tyee Nation, Stellat’en First Nation, and Yekooche First Nation. Section 4 of this report discusses aspects of consultation carried out with these First Nations; and 


A Working Group was convened composed of federal and provincial agencies, local and regional governments, and First Nations. Invitations for participation in the Working Group were sent to: Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC), Fisheries and Oceans Canada (DFO), Ministry of Forests, Lands, Natural Resource Operations and Rural Development (FLNRORD), Ministry of Environment and Climate Change Strategy (ENV), Ministry of Transportation and Infrastructure (TRAN), OGC, Regional District of Bulkley-Nechako (RDBN), Office of the Wet’suwet’en, Wet’suwet’en First Nation, Nee Tahi Buhn Indian Band, Skin Tyee Nation and Stellat’en First Nation. The Working Group was convened to provide technical review of the Application, and to provide technical advice to the EAO and CGL on technical issues that fall within each working group member’s mandate. 

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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby dontrump » Jan 13th, 2019, 9:53 pm

I can see a FN bitching if its their own personal farm land or cattle ranch that's being disrupted and there working it making money and self supporting and not being properly compensated;;But the FN bitching?? most don't own :cuss: ,dont work protest everything in sight and personally own nothing and live on band welfare systems (federal tax money)
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Pete Podoski » Jan 14th, 2019, 11:54 am

It's interesting that the protesters saw fit to soak the ground with gasoline and light it on fire.

I thought this was about protecting the environment?


As police prepared to move in, protesters soaked the frozen ground with gasoline. This was likely from jerry cans carried in earlier in the day by RCMP liaison staff along with other supplies, to allow occupiers to leave in comfort and dignity in their vehicles.

The fire was set as police entered and quickly got out of control, igniting the protesters’ tent and a bus that still had a protester tied to it. Police had bolt cutters to cut down the barrier and were able to rescue him.

https://www.interior-news.com/opinion/b ... ne-protest
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 14th, 2019, 12:04 pm

Pete Podoski wrote:It's interesting that the protesters saw fit to soak the ground with gasoline and light it on fire.

I thought this was about protecting the environment?


As police prepared to move in, protesters soaked the frozen ground with gasoline. This was likely from jerry cans carried in earlier in the day by RCMP liaison staff along with other supplies, to allow occupiers to leave in comfort and dignity in their vehicles.

The fire was set as police entered and quickly got out of control, igniting the protesters’ tent and a bus that still had a protester tied to it. Police had bolt cutters to cut down the barrier and were able to rescue him.

https://www.interior-news.com/opinion/b ... ne-protest


These idiots set themselves on fire. With gas that was provided to them from the RCMP. Free of charge. Wow. Just wow. The Tides Foundation doesn't seem to do much for IQ testing.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 4:27 pm

dontrump wrote:I can see a FN bitching if its their own personal farm land or cattle ranch that's being disrupted and there working it making money and self supporting and not being properly compensated;;But the FN bitching?? most don't own :cuss: ,dont work protest everything in sight and personally own nothing and live on band welfare systems (federal tax money)


Unceded lands that are also reserve lands are collectively owned by members of the indian band except for certain allotments that have a CP. Indian territory is extremely personal land...it doesn’t get more personal than the land you may have inhabited for thousands of years.

Sounds like you’re a product of the 1970s/1980s education system, btw there’s more non-FN Canadians on welfare than there are FN at all.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby dontrump » Jan 14th, 2019, 5:06 pm

BM do some research you will be stunned at the terrific amount of tax payers support the Indians of Bc receive

including free dental, free medical, housing support ,money support, rental subsidies , tax incentives as no sales
taxes paid in most all cases, no income tax on reserve based people , free university's, gas tax rebates etc etc etc etc
Currently as a white employed male I receive ZERO of the any mentioned above
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 14th, 2019, 5:14 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:
dontrump wrote:I can see a FN bitching if its their own personal farm land or cattle ranch that's being disrupted and there working it making money and self supporting and not being properly compensated;;But the FN bitching?? most don't own :cuss: ,dont work protest everything in sight and personally own nothing and live on band welfare systems (federal tax money)


Unceded lands that are also reserve lands are collectively owned by members of the indian band except for certain allotments that have a CP. Indian territory is extremely personal land...it doesn’t get more personal than the land you may have inhabited for thousands of years.

Sounds like you’re a product of the 1970s/1980s education system, btw there’s more non-FN Canadians on welfare than there are FN at all.


Now how about you compare the percentage of the FN population on welfare, as opposed to non-FN Canadians.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 5:21 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:
Now how about you compare the percentage of the FN population on welfare, as opposed to non-FN Canadians.



Not quite apples to apples
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Smurf » Jan 14th, 2019, 5:55 pm

No matter the percentage and comparison there would be a lot less of both on welfare in BC if projects like the Trans Mountain Pipeline and LNG pipeline were allowed to proceed. The jobs for the FN people and the money many reserves will get would go a long way to their betterment. That is the lift up many of these people and reserves need and their elected officials understood that and carefully negotiated the best deal they could get. I give them credit for their time and hard work for the benefit of their people.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 6:04 pm

Smurf wrote:No matter the percentage and comparison there would be a lot less of both on welfare in BC if projects like the Trans Mountain Pipeline and LNG pipeline were allowed to proceed. The jobs for the FN people and the money many reserves will get would go a long way to their betterment. That is the lift up many of these people and reserves need and their elected officials understood that and carefully negotiated the best deal they could get. I give them credit for their time and hard work for the benefit of their people.


The employment opportunities regarding the pipelines will only be there for a couple years for low skilled labourers, after that it’s all engineers and certified tradesmen that keep the pipeline running. If the land under the pipelines are going to be leased that could be a nice gravy train, until someone gets sick of paying millions per year for the land
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Hurtlander » Jan 14th, 2019, 7:04 pm

Consultation and consent from elected chiefs or hereditary chiefs in FN traditional territory is irrelevant if the crown proves that the resource or energy or pipeline project etc is in the greater public interest..
http://www.vancouversun.com/business/La ... story.html
I’m pretty sure this is why the SCoC ruled against the FN communities that tried to stop site-C on their traditional territory.

Quote;
“The landmark ruling will provide a clear and less onerous roadmap for all unresolved land claims in B.C. and throughout Canada involving First Nations seeking to negotiate modern treaties – or to fight for their land rights in court.

The unanimous ruling from all eight judges was written by Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin.

“Aboriginal title confers the right to use and control the land and to reap the benefits flowing from it,” she found.

However, the ruling also made clear that economic development on title land can continue – either with consent, or if there is no consent when the Crown has proven that the project has a “compelling and substantial” public interest.”
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Muzza » Jan 14th, 2019, 9:13 pm

dontrump wrote:BM do some research you will be stunned at the terrific amount of tax payers support the Indians of Bc receive

including free dental, free medical, housing support ,money support, rental subsidies , tax incentives as no sales
taxes paid in most all cases, no income tax on reserve based people , free university's, gas tax rebates etc etc etc etc
Currently as a white employed male I receive ZERO of the any mentioned above


Close, but not quite... (someone please correct me if I'm wrong):

no sales taxes paid in most all cases: Only if purchased on reserve or delivered to reserve land in BC. Ontario is a bit different.
no income tax on reserve based people: only if you work on reserve.
free university: you have to apply to have it paid. Most I know were refused by their band. It varies by band.
gas tax rebates: never heard of gas rebates.....

Because I was married to a status native, my medical was paid. I could never see the sense in that. I felt it was just wrong! No dental coverage for me though.....
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