An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby JagXKR » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:12 pm

Muzza wrote:gas tax rebates: never heard of gas rebates.....
No rebate because no tax paid

Because I was married to a status native, my medical was paid. I could never see the sense in that. I felt it was just wrong! No dental coverage for me though.....


Take a read of this one day and the most glaring stat is the taxes not paid on tobacco.

https://fcpp.org/wp-content/uploads/FC1 ... 817_F2.pdf

tax.jpg
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:41 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Now how about you compare the percentage of the FN population on welfare, as opposed to non-FN Canadians.



Not quite apples to apples


Of course not because it doesn't support your narrative.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:44 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:
Smurf wrote:No matter the percentage and comparison there would be a lot less of both on welfare in BC if projects like the Trans Mountain Pipeline and LNG pipeline were allowed to proceed. The jobs for the FN people and the money many reserves will get would go a long way to their betterment. That is the lift up many of these people and reserves need and their elected officials understood that and carefully negotiated the best deal they could get. I give them credit for their time and hard work for the benefit of their people.


The employment opportunities regarding the pipelines will only be there for a couple years for low skilled labourers, after that it’s all engineers and certified tradesmen that keep the pipeline running. If the land under the pipelines are going to be leased that could be a nice gravy train, until someone gets sick of paying millions per year for the land


So now welders and heavy equipment operators are "low skilled"?

You're so full of it it's pathetic!
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:47 pm

dontrump wrote:BM do some research you will be stunned at the terrific amount of tax payers support the Indians of Bc receive

including free dental, free medical, housing support ,money support, rental subsidies , tax incentives as no sales
taxes paid in most all cases, no income tax on reserve based people , free university's, gas tax rebates etc etc etc etc
Currently as a white employed male I receive ZERO of the any mentioned above



There are almost 200 different First Nation bands in BC, all which have different or similar treaties, nearly 1/6 of all First Nations in Canada are in BC and only 1/3 of status Indians in BC live on the reserve. Reserve based FN can still pay income tax unless 100% of their work is reservation based. Aspiring students have to apply for university funding through their band and may not get it depending on the funding, Serinde Baptiste is a band councillor in saskatchewan and she says her band has to turn down nearly 30 students a year due to lack of funding.

Take your resume to Kitwonga or Dease lake and try and find employment there and maybe you’ll begin to understand. As a white male you are subjected to 0 of the things FN in the north half of BC face.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:49 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:
So now welders and heavy equipment operators are "low skilled"?

You're so full of it it's pathetic!


I said low skilled labourers...not certified tradesmen. By the time a FN went to school to be a welder or become an experienced operator those jobs will be done.

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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 10:50 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:

Not quite apples to apples


Of course not because it doesn't support your narrative.[/quote]


My narrative is that FN are historically the least opportune and most impoverished demographic in Canadian history, are you trying to push a notion that somehow FN are genetically predisposed to being a welfare recipient?
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 14th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:
Urban Cowboy wrote:
So now welders and heavy equipment operators are "low skilled"?

You're so full of it it's pathetic!


I said low skilled labourers...not certified tradesmen. By the time a FN went to school to be a welder or become an experienced operator those jobs will be done.


So you're saying there aren't any FN people with welding skills, or ability to operate heavy machinery? I'd call BS on that.

You do understand that there's a lot of business associated with a project the scope of that pipeline no?

People involved in making and transporting the pipe. Excavators who just like anywhere else in construction have work until the job is complete then move on to the next one.

Heavy equipment mechanics who have to keep the machinery running, surveyors, engineers, maintenance people, food services, housing, laundry, and the list goes on. Even once completed there will still be some darn good paying jobs that are permanent, and the bands also benefit in other ways according to what was agreed to.

For some reason you and the anti site C crowd all seem to suffer from short sightedness, again probably because anything other wouldn't support the narrative.

Note also that nowhere did I state that all the jobs would go to FN members, but even keeping non natives employed benefits FN people. After all the money the federal government doles out does come from those of us who are working.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Urban Cowboy » Jan 14th, 2019, 11:25 pm

Brass Monkey wrote:My narrative is that FN are historically the least opportune and most impoverished demographic in Canadian history, are you trying to push a notion that somehow FN are genetically predisposed to being a welfare recipient?


Well they weren't exactly living in luxury when settlers came were they?

I don't know how large a part genetics plays, but unfortunately I have had plenty of experience with the worker going MIA the moment they received their days pay, much to my disappointment I might add, given that many of them were quite good at taking direction and being productive, and could easily have obtained a full time good paying job had they but reappeared the next day.

You know the old saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Difference is the horse doesn't go whining and playing victim afterward.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Brass Monkey » Jan 14th, 2019, 11:43 pm

Urban Cowboy wrote:
So you're saying there aren't any FN people with welding skills, or ability to operate heavy machinery? I'd call BS on that.

You do understand that there's a lot of business associated with a project the scope of that pipeline no?

People involved in making and transporting the pipe. Excavators who just like anywhere else in construction have work until the job is complete then move on to the next one.

Heavy equipment mechanics who have to keep the machinery running, surveyors, engineers, maintenance people, food services, housing, laundry, and the list goes on. Even once completed there will still be some darn good paying jobs that are permanent, and the bands also benefit in other ways according to what was agreed to.

For some reason you and the anti site C crowd all seem to suffer from short sightedness, again probably because anything other wouldn't support the narrative.

Note also that nowhere did I state that all the jobs would go to FN members, but even keeping non natives employed benefits FN people. After all the money the federal government doles out does come from those of us who are working.


FN that go the extra mile to get a certificate or work experience generally aren’t going back to their reservations where there are hardly any employment oppurtunities.

I have never once mentioned Site C, I don’t know enough about it, I did however just read that the UN is levying pressure on Canada to do a better job of consulting with FN regarding the project as it violates the UN declaration of indigenous rights.

I agree that funding for a lot of bands does come out of us that work, I have no problem with it with a morsel of my taxes going to it, especially considering the millions upon millions the government collects from industries on traditional territory.

First Nations didn’t live lives of luxury before colonialism and the majority don’t live luxury lives today either, except back then they had the skills and knowledge to survive as they had for thousands of years.

You couldn’t lead a horse to water if you broke it’s back, something you conveniently omitted.

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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby Smurf » Jan 15th, 2019, 7:52 am

Brass Monkey wrote:

The employment opportunities regarding the pipelines will only be there for a couple years for low skilled labourers, after that it’s all engineers and certified tradesmen that keep the pipeline running. If the land under the pipelines are going to be leased that could be a nice gravy train, until someone gets sick of paying millions per year for the land


I have been on northern sites where FN's came to work. I'm not sure about this case but in Manitoba on their hydro projects they had familiarization training for the FN employees. They then trained many of them as apprentices in trades, equipment operation, cooks etc. They came out of it with trades and experience. You are right many did not go back to the reserve, they went on to a better more productive life. Is that a bad thing? From what I have read these bands also have agreements to do monitoring, maintenance etc that will give some permanent jobs at home on their reserves if they wish.

Why do you seem to be so against them bettering themselves even if only for a few years. In construction I moved from job to job for years. It didn't hurt me and it was a very good living.

Many, many times it leads to a better future. You have to start somewhere to get anywhere. I believe the elected councils realize this and are trying their best.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 15th, 2019, 8:36 am

Brass Monkey wrote:
I have never once mentioned Site C, I don’t know enough about it, I did however just read that the UN is levying pressure on Canada to do a better job of consulting with FN regarding the project as it violates the UN declaration of indigenous rights.

.


How legitimate do you think this claim is? I only ask because I harbour a lot distrust for the UN, and all unelected organizations in general that decide to weigh in on subjects that negatively affect economies and lives and livelihoods of millions of people. I was under the impression that a lot of work had been done to satisfy the human right requirements, and this came as a surprise to me.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby dontrump » Jan 15th, 2019, 11:27 am

Brass Monkey wrote:
Urban Cowboy wrote:
So now welders and heavy equipment operators are "low skilled"?

You're so full of it it's pathetic!


I said low skilled labourers...not certified tradesmen. By the time a FN went to school to be a welder or become an experienced operator those jobs will be done.



now that's funny(but true) LOL :130: :130: :130:
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby dontrump » Jan 15th, 2019, 11:31 am

A few years ago my nephew wanted to get into the rcmp only openings were women and Indians

He also phone UBC for courses in criminology too late only openings left at the time were if you were Indian


so not only do they get constant tax payer monies they get preferential treatments :swear:

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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby featfan » Jan 15th, 2019, 12:09 pm

https://www.nvit.ca/docs/bringing_nvit_ ... railer.pdf

Seems like NVIT in Merritt has training figured out.
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Re: An Act of War; Oka Crisis Part 2?

Postby blue iguana » Jan 15th, 2019, 6:19 pm

Former elected chief Ellis Ross speaks out - Todays FN Leadership issues

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 09%2F&_rdr
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