Cold weather saps batteries

[Fancy]

With all the new condo buildings going up in downtown Kelowna, they might become more popular with the "city" folk.

[Jlabute]

Absolutely, technology is always improving. The main technologies needed for EVs are:

1) More reliable and efficient conversion from DC battery to AC for the motors.
Efficient and reliable electronics. At this point, any improvements are marginal. Using 'better' electronics MOSFETs or IGBTs usually jump the price up exponentially with a tiny benefit. Electrolytic caps are always used and they have a limited lifespan and subject to shorter lifespans if subject to high temperatures.

2) Better battery technology.
Might not be solved solely by a car company. Although Toyota is working on solid state lithium, a good improvement but still a stepping stone to the ideal car battery. Tesla also purchased Maxwell for their battery technology. We have yet to see marginal improvements.

3) More efficient motors.
EV companies generally have manufactured their own various types of motors, such as three-phase induction motors (no permanent magnets), or motors with rare earth magnets on cheaper models. Only so much you can do here.

4) Regenerative braking.
Relies on electronics to do AC to DC conversion to charge the batteries. Once again, electronics may provide a marginal improvement at greater expense.


My vision of the future for EVs is a new battery technology (fuel cell, chemical, super-cap, or something better, safer, cheaper than lithium, and ~$10000 cheaper) that has such a high energy density and quick recharge time, no company would care to use solar cells or regenerative braking since it adds too much to the vehicle cost. AC induction motors with no rare earth elements like Tesla.

[Smurf]

Right on every point as far as I am concerned Jlabute.

[Cactusflower]

Absolutely, technology is always improving. The main technologies needed for EVs are:

1) More reliable and efficient conversion from DC battery to AC for the motors.
Efficient and reliable electronics. At this point, any improvements are marginal. Using 'better' electronics MOSFETs or IGBTs usually jump the price up exponentially with a tiny benefit. Electrolytic caps are always used and they have a limited lifespan and subject to shorter lifespans if subject to high temperatures.

2) Better battery technology.
Might not be solved solely by a car company. Although Toyota is working on solid state lithium, a good improvement but still a stepping stone to the ideal car battery. Tesla also purchased Maxwell for their battery technology. We have yet to see marginal improvements.

3) More efficient motors.
EV companies generally have manufactured their own various types of motors, such as three-phase induction motors (no permanent magnets), or motors with rare earth magnets on cheaper models. Only so much you can do here.

4) Regenerative braking.
Relies on electronics to do AC to DC conversion to charge the batteries. Once again, electronics may provide a marginal improvement at greater expense.


My vision of the future for EVs is a new battery technology (fuel cell, chemical, super-cap, or something better, safer, cheaper than lithium, and ~$10000 cheaper) that has such a high energy density and quick recharge time, no company would care to use solar cells or regenerative braking since it adds too much to the vehicle cost. AC induction motors with no rare earth elements like Tesla.

Thanks for the info. It's always good to read something informative rather than the usual rude remarks.

[Fancy]

Absolutely, technology is always improving.

Just out of curiosity, have you any knowledge about new developments in Kelowna that cater to these types of vehicles?

[Jlabute]

Hi Fancy,

I am not aware of any research or development in the field of new battery tech, fuel cell, or new motors, or anything for EVs in the Okanagan. I was in the Accelerate Okanagan loop many years ago and was a little familiar with technological startups and such at the time. My expectations are that nothing from the Okanagan will leapfrog us in to the future.

Have you heard of anything?

[Fancy]

No, I've just been reading up on the new towers being built and wondered if they are making allowances for these types of vehicles when building the parkades. Would make sense to have charging stations and keeping up with the technology.

[Jlabute]

I wonder how many charging stations is enough? Buildings last for generations, and although there are few EVs now, how many will there be in 20 years. Yeah, who knows. lol.

Not that familiar with EV charging, I think fast charging is something like a maximum of 32 Amps and the connectors and cables have to support it... if new batteries and super-super-fast charging are invented sometime, will the existing cables/connectors be sufficient? Would we need to handle 64A or higher? Cars will probably come with adapters perhaps. lol. If we expect EVs to charge in 5 minutes some time in the future... the existing charging stations would all eventually have to be refitted or be obsoleted(???)

Ever watch the Netflix series "Black Mirror - Episode Nosedive" lol. Everything you do in life is determined by your social rating and the lead character had a low social rating and could only rent an older model EV to go to her friends wedding. She ran out of battery power on her trip and had no 'adapter' for her old model EV to recharge. lol.

[OKkayak]

What you fail to realize is that nobody waits until the battery has no charge left before re-charging. Do you always wait until your gas tank is empty before filling up? There are times when it only takes me 15 minutes to top up. Hardly time to grab a coffee.

I didn't fail to realize anything. As I said, we've already discussed these points, as well as the repetitive use of quick chargers and its negative effect on the battery's lifespan and performance.

Of course, at the present time an EV isn't for everyone, but as the article states, there are more and more Canadians switching to EVs every year, and as the technology improves, you will see fewer ICE vehicles than horses and buggies on our highways.

Oh, for sure more people are buying EVs, but that still accounts for an extremely tiny fraction of the market. I think it would be pretty cool to see some demographics statistics for BC EV buyers and where they live. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of EV buyers live in the Metro Vancouver area because there it would make sense, just like car sharing programs like Evo and Car To Go.

[Cactusflower]

I wonder how many charging stations is enough? Buildings last for generations, and although there are few EVs now, how many will there be in 20 years. Yeah, who knows. lol.

Not that familiar with EV charging, I think fast charging is something like a maximum of 32 Amps and the connectors and cables have to support it... if new batteries and super-super-fast charging are invented sometime, will the existing cables/connectors be sufficient? Would we need to handle 64A or higher? Cars will probably come with adapters perhaps. lol. If we expect EVs to charge in 5 minutes some time in the future... the existing charging stations would all eventually have to be refitted or be obsoleted(???)

Ever watch the Netflix series "Black Mirror - Episode Nosedive" lol. Everything you do in life is determined by your social rating and the lead character had a low social rating and could only rent an older model EV to go to her friends wedding. She ran out of battery power on her trip and had no 'adapter' for her old model EV to recharge. lol.

Oh boy.......just when I was beginning to think you might know something about EVs, you come up with some fictional Netflix . Tsk, tsk!

[Fancy]

Ever watch the Netflix series "Black Mirror - Episode Nosedive" lol. Everything you do in life is determined by your social rating and the lead character had a low social rating and could only rent an older model EV to go to her friends wedding. She ran out of battery power on her trip and had no 'adapter' for her old model EV to recharge. lol.

I've heard about it but haven't watched it - yet.

[dirtybiker]

Sounds like Jlabute knows more about how EV's function than I suspect most
EV owners know.
Seems fairly in tune with electricity,.

[Cactusflower]

Sounds like Jlabute knows more about how EV's function than I suspect most
EV owners know.
Seems fairly in tune with electricity,.

Do you mean the Netflix story or Jiabute's previous comment?

[Smurf]

His comments certainly prove he knows more than most. The Netflix story is just that a story, but it fits in quite well when I think of an earlier link somewhere that mentioned, I believe some CBC people travelling to the states in an EV missing a turn and ending up in trouble for the rest of the voyage. Running out of battery power is not a story it happens. Sticking with this topic it does become much more of a problem in Canada in the winter. Batteries do not like cold weather. It also probably happens much more to people who buy the cheaper model EV's (lower social rating) than the ones who buy say a Tesla with more battery power. It is one of the big reasons the majority of people will not be buying EV's any time soon.

[Gilchy]

I would be willing to bet that I do not see EV's become 20% of new vehicles being sold in Canada let alone 50%. It will be years probably decades before they are viable for the majority of Canadian drivers unless they live in a little bubble. I would certainly say that the majority of people in BC are much too active and outdoorsy to use today's EV's. The same with their boats, rv's, dirt bikes, atv's, snowmobiles, 4X4's, vehicles necessary to haul them all, etc. EV's are a long way from mainstream.

This is likely our local bias playing into it. The majority of people in BC live in the lower mainland or Victoria, and spend the vast majority of their driving time in short distance commute traffic, where EVs are ideal. That said, the only current EVs that are cost competitive in their respective segments are Teslas (Model 3 vs BMW 3 series, Model S vs Mercedes E class, etc). The Leaf is comparable to a Versa in finishing for more money, EVs have a way to go to be "purely cost competitive".