Carbon tax needs to go.

Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby applemash99 » Mar 29th, 2019, 3:33 pm

We are getting taxed to death in this province. The carbon tax is the biggest money grab in the history of Canada. A tax on a tax. Next provincial and federal election it needs to go.

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby seewood » Mar 29th, 2019, 4:59 pm

^^^ Never happen unfortunately. Once governments get a taste of revenue producing tax especially under the guise of being " green" there is no way any government will get rid of it entirely....unless your Rob Ford.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby butcher99 » Mar 29th, 2019, 8:59 pm

seewood wrote:^^^ Never happen unfortunately. Once governments get a taste of revenue producing tax especially under the guise of being " green" there is no way any government will get rid of it entirely....unless your Rob Ford.


Carbon taxes have proven to work. More taxes less carbon released.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Walking Wounded » Mar 29th, 2019, 9:52 pm

butcher99 wrote:
seewood wrote:^^^ Never happen unfortunately. Once governments get a taste of revenue producing tax especially under the guise of being " green" there is no way any government will get rid of it entirely....unless your Rob Ford.


Carbon taxes have proven to work. More taxes less carbon released.

B.S. people need to heat their homes, some people need to drive for work so they either lose money or charge more for their services. Carbon taxes are a complete rip off that won’t do a damn thing to cut carbon emissions. It’s just another way politicians can steal our money to pay for their expense accounts and golden pensions.

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Relentless » Mar 29th, 2019, 9:54 pm

applemash99 wrote:We are getting taxed to death in this province. The carbon tax is the biggest money grab in the history of Canada. A tax on a tax. Next provincial and federal election it needs to go.

Gordon Campbell(Liberals) introduced us to the Carbon Tax scam 11 years ago, it was to be revenue Neutral, and people were to get rebates. It is now 2019 and we are on the second last tier(April 1) to the max of $50 per ton, anyone get a rebate yet?

BC residents have been scammed to the max with Land Title Transfer tax, Carbon Tax, PST, HST, ICBC, Fortis BC.

It is clear that the Liberals and NDP are good at robbing us, yet Idiots keep voting for this corruption.

Also, the 2018 Carbon emissions created by BC residents increased by 1.6%, so the tax isn't working as intended!

The Carbon tax is a scam, there is no such thing as human caused global warming, and if you ever want to see a hypocrite have a look at the following video, staring Carole James(NDP) when she protested with the general population against Gordon Campbell's Carbon Tax.
Now, figure this out, an NDP member of the opposition party was protesting against the Liberals Carbon tax, and now the NDP are in Government, and what happened to the Carole James protest? Why hasn't the NDP removed the corrupt Carbon Tax? Here is the link to the video, have a laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMGb9Knbvq8&t=2s
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Drip_Torch » Mar 29th, 2019, 10:09 pm

Relentless wrote:Also, the 2018 Carbon emissions created by BC residents increased by 1.6%, so the tax isn't working as intended!


BC residents increased by 1.4% and the economy grew. Go figure. But seriously, BC's carbon emissions went up by way, way more than that. Your number doesn't include the estimated 194 million tonnes from wildfires alone. Total cost to suppress those fires $350.1 million. So, there is that.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Verum » Mar 29th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Walking Wounded wrote:
butcher99 wrote:...
Carbon taxes have proven to work. More taxes less carbon released.

B.S. people need to heat their homes, some people need to drive for work so they either lose money or charge more for their services. Carbon taxes are a complete rip off that won’t do a damn thing to cut carbon emissions. It’s just another way politicians can steal our money to pay for their expense accounts and golden pensions.

So, improve the insulation in your home, wear a sweater when it's cold, charge more for the services and get a more efficient vehicle when it is time to replace the old one, etc. The whole idea of carbon tax is to shape behaviour, put the cost of the emissions on the emitter and complaining that such isn't trivial or without requiring changes to one's life is to miss the whole point. It's like complaining that you pay more for water when you use it to water your private golf-course, than someone who just grows a few vegetables in their back yard.
Carbon taxes are widely accepted by economists to help lower emissions (not enough, but a start) as they help address one of the major problems of capitalism (as seen by capitalist economists like Friedman), the negative externality problem.

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby dirtybiker » Mar 29th, 2019, 11:54 pm

Just buy more insulation.
The manufacturers raised their price to help offset the Carbon tax.
The distributer had to bump their price to cover the Carbon tax.
The haulage outfit was forced to hike their rate because of the Carbon tax.
The retailer raised the price off the shelf to cover their Carbon tax.

Sure, just go buy more insulation. It'll have been stepped on so many
times, who can afford it ?

You can't tax a country out of debt !
"Don't 'p' down my neck then tell me it's raining!"

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Verum » Mar 30th, 2019, 12:11 am

dirtybiker wrote:Just buy more insulation.
The manufacturers raised their price to help offset the Carbon tax.
The distributer had to bump their price to cover the Carbon tax.
The haulage outfit was forced to hike their rate because of the Carbon tax.
The retailer raised the price off the shelf to cover their Carbon tax.

Yes, so now the insulation better reflects the actual cost. It's quite simple economics really.
Sure, just go buy more insulation. It'll have been stepped on so many
times, who can afford it ?

Carbon taxes aren't about making things more affordable in the short term, so why use this metric. If you cannot afford the real cost of the item, when the negative effects on third-parties are taken into account, then maybe capitalism isn't for you.

You can't tax a country out of debt !

That's debatable. John Maynard Keynes might disagree, especially if that tax is then used to drive the economy forward for the betterment of all. That said, that's not the purpose of Carbon tax anyway.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that this is fun, but being an adult often isn't fun. Carbon taxes also don't really help the little guy, since those are who are most sensitive to small increases in tax, but often one has to own up to ones' responsibilities, which includes paying for the damage we are doing to the environment. You want to do it another way, let us know, maybe you've got a better idea, but given that we need to curb our carbon emissions, carbon taxes are one of the better ways to go about it, while allowing the free market to work towards more efficient solutions.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby JagXKR » Mar 30th, 2019, 12:21 am

Verum wrote:the negative externality problem


This argument is wrought with bias and deceit. Deceit in the form of lying by omission.
I find this article to help balance the eco terrorist "economics" position.

https://www.masterresource.org/energy-e ... o-krugman/

An honest attempt to guesstimate the full economic impact of fossil fuels would have to take into account, at the absolute minimum, the following:

Cheap, plentiful, reliable energy adds dozens of years to life and makes those years incomparably more enjoyable.
Given current technology and economics, including the desperate need for industrial-scale energy around the world, fossil fuels will be indispensable for decades to come. This is especially true because of the environmentalist assault on nuclear power, which has set back that technology decades.
Industrial-scale energy has historically made us far less vulnerable to climate, not more–and would be essential to coping successfully with any serious climate change, natural or manmade.
Solar and wind have never produced cheap, plentiful, reliable energy in any country, ever.


If the Left imposed a carbon tax that was large enough to force the entire economy to run on solar and wind, the entire economy would collapse. If the tax was large but not large enough to totally bankrupt the fossil fuel industry, it would do little to reduce greenhouse gasses but make us far poorer, including far more vulnerable to the climate–cheap energy being the key to making the climate livable. Any level of tax is pseudo-scientific and destructive, because it is based on an evasion of the indispensable, life-and-death positives of fossil fuels.
Why use a big word when a diminutive one will suffice.

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Verum » Mar 30th, 2019, 12:48 am

JagXKR wrote:
Verum wrote:the negative externality problem


This argument is wrought with bias and deceit. Deceit in the form of lying by omission.
I find this article to help balance the eco terrorist "economics" position.

Lol! You're seriously describing Milton Friedman as an "eco terrorist"?! You might want to read up a little on economics before you do so. Anyway, like all sane people I'm going to give his opinion a hell of a lot more weight than the rantings of a shill for the fossil fuel industry. Maybe find a serious economist to counter the argument, rather than some hack.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby countmeout » Mar 30th, 2019, 3:21 am

Verum wrote:
dirtybiker wrote:Just buy more insulation.
The manufacturers raised their price to help offset the Carbon tax.
The distributer had to bump their price to cover the Carbon tax.
The haulage outfit was forced to hike their rate because of the Carbon tax.
The retailer raised the price off the shelf to cover their Carbon tax.

Yes, so now the insulation better reflects the actual cost. It's quite simple economics really.
Sure, just go buy more insulation. It'll have been stepped on so many
times, who can afford it ?

Carbon taxes aren't about making things more affordable in the short term, so why use this metric. If you cannot afford the real cost of the item, when the negative effects on third-parties are taken into account, then maybe capitalism isn't for you.

You can't tax a country out of debt !

That's debatable. John Maynard Keynes might disagree, especially if that tax is then used to drive the economy forward for the betterment of all. That said, that's not the purpose of Carbon tax anyway.

Let me be clear, I'm not saying that this is fun, but being an adult often isn't fun. Carbon taxes also don't really help the little guy, since those are who are most sensitive to small increases in tax, but often one has to own up to ones' responsibilities, which includes paying for the damage we are doing to the environment. You want to do it another way, let us know, maybe you've got a better idea, but given that we need to curb our carbon emissions, carbon taxes are one of the better ways to go about it, while allowing the free market to work towards more efficient solutions.


You didn't get his arguement then :135:
The idea is carbon tax has raised the price of the solution (better insulation, less emmiting car) and the price of his carbon use. Doesn't matter if they try to emit less, they will pay the tax to do so. It's an unfair tax, same as the speculation tax, disguised as doing something good for the world/people to gain support. If every country put a huge tax on carbon, what would happen tomorrow? Would climate change start reversing?

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby ckil » Mar 30th, 2019, 6:24 am

Carbon tax is a hoax. It is an income tax that will be paid by the consumer. Business does not pay tax, their customers foot the bill.

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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Merry » Mar 30th, 2019, 7:19 am

butcher99 wrote:Carbon taxes have proven to work. More taxes less carbon released.

Not sure that’s entirely true Butcher. Yes, emissions in B.C. did go down slightly when it was first introduced, but we were also suffering a recession at the time which could also have accounted for the emission reduction. Once the economy improved, the emissions began to climb again.

If simply making fossil fuels more expensive is the way to lower emissions, why is it that when you look around, in a Province that has the highest gas prices in Canada, you still see just as many gas guzzling vehicles, RVs, boats, lawn mowers, chainsaws, etc. as you do in places that haven’t had a carbon tax up to now?

IMO all the carbon tax does is allow Governments to PRETEND they’re doing something to help the environment, when in actual fact all they are doing is raising more revenue for themselves.

If they REALLY want to help our environment there are lots of things they could do that would be far more effective. However, as most of the things necessary would also be extremely unpopular (and would most likely cost them votes) they’ll never do it. Far easier to just fool the Public into believing paying more at the pump will solve our global warming problem. Even though it won’t.
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Re: Carbon tax needs to go.

Postby Smurf » Mar 30th, 2019, 7:53 am

Merry you are correct in saying it could have been the recession and I would say probably was. Some people say you have to live with it and change but I believe through time it could cause recession(s) due to the hardships on the most vulnerable. Could even cause homelessness in severe cases. I wonder how long a country could survive recessions if it continued long enough. Probably for sure causes greater differences in the classes of people. We say increasing minimum wage because it will drive up prices accordingly and there is no gain. I believe the Carbon Tax is even worse, especially for the vulnerable. We might think we do but I don't believe most of us truly understand how many vulnerable people there are out there that are suffering greatly from things like the carbon tax for no true benefits.
Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have of changing others.

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