Machete man gets shot down

Machete man gets shot down

Postby mnprochnau » Aug 14th, 2019, 12:19 pm

https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#263524

Good for the Surrey cops. I take it none of them felt to threatened by the guy bringing a knife to a gun fight. Fortunately for him he didn't do this south of the line where he would have ended up killed by the first cop on the scene. That machete wielding idiot should really thank the police for not aiming at his head. Non life threatening injury. Good shot officer.

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby Bsuds » Aug 14th, 2019, 12:31 pm

mnprochnau wrote: Non life threatening injury. Good shot officer.


Are you positive he hit where he was aiming?
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby bb49 » Aug 14th, 2019, 6:47 pm

Bsuds wrote:
mnprochnau wrote: Non life threatening injury. Good shot officer.


Are you positive he hit where he was aiming?


All police, both sides of the border, are taught to shoot at the largest part of the body.
In other words, the guy got lucky.
It's very difficult to hit a target from just about any distance with a handgun, especially when under pressure.
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby csm » Aug 18th, 2019, 1:05 am

Remember, only the cops or Brinks guards can defend themselves with a hand gun - law abiding citizens can't. Cops can't be there on every street corner to protect you, and there are more and more desperate and insane people out there looking for an opportunity to strike - and if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, you either die, or you get charged for manslaughter when you are simply defending yourself.

Some country we live in.

Personally, I'd rather be alive and illegal than dead and legal.
Amazing how Liberal Fanatics are great at blaming others for Canada's problems, but when asked about their accomplishments - have nothing to say!

Fidel Trudeau is an Autocrat and Dictator - "Ship Him Back To Cuba"!!

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby TylerM4 » Aug 19th, 2019, 10:55 am

csm wrote:Remember, only the cops or Brinks guards can defend themselves with a hand gun - law abiding citizens can't. Cops can't be there on every street corner to protect you, and there are more and more desperate and insane people out there looking for an opportunity to strike - and if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, you either die, or you get charged for manslaughter when you are simply defending yourself.

Some country we live in.

Personally, I'd rather be alive and illegal than dead and legal.



Lol. So much BS I don't know where to start. Let's just say that "Cops can't be on every street corner to protect you" is the only correct factual statement in this post.

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby TylerM4 » Aug 19th, 2019, 10:57 am

mnprochnau wrote:https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-story-263524-3-.htm#263524

Good for the Surrey cops. I take it none of them felt to threatened by the guy bringing a knife to a gun fight. Fortunately for him he didn't do this south of the line where he would have ended up killed by the first cop on the scene. That machete wielding idiot should really thank the police for not aiming at his head. Non life threatening injury. Good shot officer.


As others have mentioned - cops are specifically trained to shoot to kill. If it's serious enough to shoot, it's serious enough to kill. That's why it's so common to see them empty the clip into a suspect.

In this case, it was a good outcome - but the reality is opposite from your statement. It was actually a "bad shot that worked out for the best".

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby Frisk » Aug 19th, 2019, 11:14 am

csm wrote:Remember, only the cops or Brinks guards can defend themselves with a hand gun - law abiding citizens can't


In public, yes. In your own home, no. You're allowed to defend yourself and others in your home if you feel that you or others lives are threatened and there's no way to escape.
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby TylerM4 » Aug 19th, 2019, 11:22 am

Frisk wrote:
In public, yes. In your own home, no. You're allowed to defend yourself and others in your home if you feel that you or others lives are threatened and there's no way to escape.


That's not entirely true either. It would be more accurate to say "if you are in legal possession of a hand gun (or any gun it doesn't matter) you are allowed to use it to protect yourself if there is no other (less deadly) way to do so."

With hand guns the challenge is that you're often not in legal possession if outside of your home. But, it's legal to take the gun to a gun smith, it's legal to take to a shooting range, it's legal to transport to a new location for sale/storage, etc if you follow the appropriate process. If during one of those times you encounter a situation where using a gun to protect yourself is appropriate then you can legally use that handgun to protect yourself.
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby Frisk » Aug 19th, 2019, 11:50 am

My bad, yes that's also true.
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby csm » Aug 19th, 2019, 12:14 pm

TylerM4 wrote:
Frisk wrote:
In public, yes. In your own home, no. You're allowed to defend yourself and others in your home if you feel that you or others lives are threatened and there's no way to escape.


That's not entirely true either. It would be more accurate to say "if you are in legal possession of a hand gun (or any gun it doesn't matter) you are allowed to use it to protect yourself if there is no other (less deadly) way to do so."

With hand guns the challenge is that you're often not in legal possession if outside of your home. But, it's legal to take the gun to a gun smith, it's legal to take to a shooting range, it's legal to transport to a new location for sale/storage, etc if you follow the appropriate process. If during one of those times you encounter a situation where using a gun to protect yourself is appropriate then you can legally use that handgun to protect yourself.


That's a ridiculous over simplification and "Dead Wrong"!!

You Cannot transport a loaded gun under any circumstances, period ( unless it's your job to do so, and have the appropriate ATC)!

That gun you are transporting also needs to be out of public view, or in the case of a handgun, in an opaque box, plus any gun being transported must be locked with a trigger lock or other acceptable locking device if it can't be locked away in a compartment or tamper proof safe.

Ammunition, if transported with the weapon, must be stored "separately" also out of public view and in a separate compartment.

Now, exactly how much time do you think a person would have, while under immediate threat of death ( once it's established that is the case ) to get the gun, unlock it, find the ammunition, load the gun and shoot the perpetrator ( not to mention you would have to turn your eyes away from him)?

The odds of succeeding are impossible - the victim would be dead long before he ever got to the "establish the threat of death" before he/she ever gets to the rest of it.

Absolutely a preposterous statement. If by chance you do happen to win the fight ( which you won't), you will be arrested and likely charged with transporting a weapon illegally in contravention of the Firearms act, and go to jail for defending yourself, because it would be humanly impossible to use that weapon to defend yourself in that situation - so you would have to be guilty. .

It's a lose- lose system.
Amazing how Liberal Fanatics are great at blaming others for Canada's problems, but when asked about their accomplishments - have nothing to say!

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby TylerM4 » Aug 19th, 2019, 1:23 pm

csm wrote:
That's a ridiculous over simplification and "Dead Wrong"!!

You Cannot transport a loaded gun under any circumstances, period ( unless it's your job to do so, and have the appropriate ATC)!

That gun you are transporting also needs to be out of public view, or in the case of a handgun, in an opaque box, plus any gun being transported must be locked with a trigger lock or other acceptable locking device if it can't be locked away in a compartment or tamper proof safe.

Ammunition, if transported with the weapon, must be stored "separately" also out of public view and in a separate compartment.

Now, exactly how much time do you think a person would have, while under immediate threat of death ( once it's established that is the case ) to get the gun, unlock it, find the ammunition, load the gun and shoot the perpetrator ( not to mention you would have to turn your eyes away from him)?

The odds of succeeding are impossible - the victim would be dead long before he ever got to the "establish the threat of death" before he/she ever gets to the rest of it.

Absolutely a preposterous statement. If by chance you do happen to win the fight ( which you won't), you will be arrested and likely charged with transporting a weapon illegally in contravention of the Firearms act, and go to jail for defending yourself, because it would be humanly impossible to use that weapon to defend yourself in that situation - so you would have to be guilty. .

It's a lose- lose system.


Wow - so suddenly it's a loaded handgun and it must be loaded to protect yourself.

Having any gun loaded while not actively being used isn't legal even when it comes to a long gun in your basement. You keep wanting to make things more complex than they really are. Why specify handguns when the same rules apply to all?

You do know that in most of the world walking around with a loaded handgun isn't legal right? Even in the US, it's only legal in SOME states if you have the appropriate permit. You make it sound like Canada has some weird rules - the reality is that our gun laws are fairly "middle of the road" when looked at internationally. They only seem strict when compared to US laws.

You also know that the US has the highest rate of gun crime and violence of any developed nation right? You are more likely to get shot to death in the US than any other G8 nation. Ever consider that they might not be the model to copy? I mean - even Trump is pushing for more gun control down there.

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby csm » Aug 19th, 2019, 1:48 pm

TylerM4 wrote:
csm wrote:
That's a ridiculous over simplification and "Dead Wrong"!!

You Cannot transport a loaded gun under any circumstances, period ( unless it's your job to do so, and have the appropriate ATC)!

That gun you are transporting also needs to be out of public view, or in the case of a handgun, in an opaque box, plus any gun being transported must be locked with a trigger lock or other acceptable locking device if it can't be locked away in a compartment or tamper proof safe.

Ammunition, if transported with the weapon, must be stored "separately" also out of public view and in a separate compartment.

Now, exactly how much time do you think a person would have, while under immediate threat of death ( once it's established that is the case ) to get the gun, unlock it, find the ammunition, load the gun and shoot the perpetrator ( not to mention you would have to turn your eyes away from him)?

The odds of succeeding are impossible - the victim would be dead long before he ever got to the "establish the threat of death" before he/she ever gets to the rest of it.

Absolutely a preposterous statement. If by chance you do happen to win the fight ( which you won't), you will be arrested and likely charged with transporting a weapon illegally in contravention of the Firearms act, and go to jail for defending yourself, because it would be humanly impossible to use that weapon to defend yourself in that situation - so you would have to be guilty. .

It's a lose- lose system.


Wow - so suddenly it's a loaded handgun and it must be loaded to protect yourself.

Having any gun loaded while not actively being used isn't legal even when it comes to a long gun in your basement. You keep wanting to make things more complex than they really are. Why specify handguns when the same rules apply to all?

You do know that in most of the world walking around with a loaded handgun isn't legal right? Even in the US, it's only legal in SOME states if you have the appropriate permit. You make it sound like Canada has some weird rules - the reality is that our gun laws are fairly "middle of the road" when looked at nationally. They only seem strict when compared to US laws.

You also know that the US has the highest rate of gun crime and violence of any developed nation right? You are more likely to get shot to death in the US than any other G8 nation. Ever consider that they might not be the model to copy? I mean - even Trump is pushing for more gun control down there.


Well, use your common sense, if the gun isn't loaded - how are you suppose to use it to defend yourself? Throw it?

It's your statements that are confusing, and incomplete, I'm just relating the law as it stands and how stupid it is to even consider using one even in your own defense, since it's an impossibility without breaking some aspect of the Criminal code.

I have a PAL, so I know the law and understand it's implications if I screw up - even if it's to defend my own life.

Your attempts to twist everything simply to support your arguments is also pretty transparent, must be you have something personal against me, well if you do, I really don't care, and won't lose one second of sleep over it.
Amazing how Liberal Fanatics are great at blaming others for Canada's problems, but when asked about their accomplishments - have nothing to say!

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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby TylerM4 » Aug 19th, 2019, 3:50 pm

csm wrote:Well, use your common sense, if the gun isn't loaded - how are you suppose to use it to defend yourself? Throw it?

It's legal to carry a full mag in your pocket. How long does it take you to insert a mag and cycle the action? Yes, loading the weapon takes time but to say that it's simply not possible to use a weapon to protect yourself unless it's already loaded is to use your own words "confusing and incomplete".

csm wrote:It's your statements that are confusing, and incomplete, I'm just relating the law as it stands and how stupid it is to even consider using one even in your own defense, since it's an impossibility without breaking some aspect of the Criminal code.

No. My statements have been 100% factual and I think pretty straight forward. I'm sorry I didn't write a book for you, but you've yet to actually point out anything that's confusing or incomplete other than "my statements". Do you have any actual examples of confusing or incomplete information I've provided?

csm wrote:I have a PAL, so I know the law and understand it's implications if I screw up - even if it's to defend my own life.

I also have my PAL. However, I'd suggest that you don't know the law as well as you think you do based on the corrections I've had to make to your statements.

csm wrote:Your attempts to twist everything simply to support your arguments is also pretty transparent, must be you have something personal against me, well if you do, I really don't care, and won't lose one second of sleep over it.


You'll need to provide examples of "twisting". All I've done is correct with actual factual information. I don't know you from a hole in the wall and my gripe is against misleading statements/information not you. Let me remind you of your opening statement:
csm wrote: "Remember, only the cops or Brinks guards can defend themselves with a hand gun - law abiding citizens can't
. There is so much wrong, misleading, and incomplete with this statement - yet somehow you have the gall to accuse me of twisting information?
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby t76turbo » Aug 21st, 2019, 8:17 am

Cops are trained to fire on center mass. That’s true if the perpetrator is charging or way too close to officer. If for whatever reason knife/machete wielding nut can’t be talked into dropping knife, usually taser gets deployed. Say no taser is available or ineffective and no other form of deescalation is available and officer can shoot at extremities to end threat.

I dono but if I’m held at gunpoint and say I have a knife/wallet/phone in my hand I’d probably drop it instantly. That’s a lose lose situation!

I’m a R-PAL holder and given to unforeseen circumstance that I ever need to reach for a firearm, It won’t be a pistol. Wayyyy to much explaining to do in Canada.
I’m also a CCW holder for Washington state and lots of other states have reciprocity with Wa. When traveling into US I can legally carry any firearm with me, pistol or rifle/shotgun all with proper paperwork of course. And again when I travel across the border I usually carry a shotgun and a rifle, pistols stay home in gun vault. Yes some states I wouldn’t be able to carry a pistol or even certain type of rifle /shotty (like California). It must then be unloaded and trigger locked out of reach, preferably in trunk.

Before anybody wants to see any type of firearm carrying (concealed or not) in Canada for protection from person, our self defence laws need to change first. Highly doubt that would ever happen, certainly not given all the current political issues facing gun control. Canada’s gun laws are strict as is and no need for change there. I’ll vote for better laws concerning protection of property and people. Let’s lock up gun wielding gangsters that have no respect for our laws as is.
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Re: Machete man gets shot down

Postby dreamon » Aug 21st, 2019, 9:15 am

bb49 wrote:All police, both sides of the border, are taught to shoot at the largest part of the body.
In other words, the guy got lucky.
It's very difficult to hit a target from just about any distance with a handgun, especially when under pressure.


Exactly, centre of mass.
However....as Bsuds suggested the suspect may not have been hit where the member was aiming, or the member felt they had time to take careful aim to stop the person without killing them.
This happened with another machete wielding man in the Maritimes years ago. A dog handler purposefully shot to maim as opposed to kill as he felt to had time and was able to draw a solid bead.
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