Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby my5cents » Aug 15th, 2019, 12:29 pm

https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/ ... ompetition

Interesting, restructuring of ICBC and Tort law reform is scheduled to commence this fall. But before that takes place private insurance "mouthpiece" IBC says ICBC needs competition from private.

In the article IBC makes no mention that other provinces have different Tort laws that create criteria and limits on the small frivolous law suits that are eating ICBC alive. (something the provincial Liberals, hid from the public that was contained in an independent report and didn't take action on)

Mid article, ICBC spokesperson Jo-anna Linsangan points out “We’re addressing the challenges within our current auto insurance system with the biggest reforms in B.C.’s history, which are already being instituted this year,”

Obviously IBC sees an opportunity, if they can get support for private auto insurance to fully compete with ICBC at the same time that the Tort laws change. The reduction of claims costs that is forecast to occur can then be claimed as being the result of competition.

I expect we'll be seeing and hearing lots more on this topic from the private insurers as we get closer to the restructuring and law change.

So, lets give our system two years to be implemented and the claims under the old Tort laws to be cleared off the books and see who pays less.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby twobits » Aug 15th, 2019, 4:27 pm

my5cents wrote:https://www.castanet.net/news/Business/263639/ICBC-needs-competition

Interesting, restructuring of ICBC and Tort law reform is scheduled to commence this fall. But before that takes place private insurance "mouthpiece" IBC says ICBC needs competition from private.

In the article IBC makes no mention that other provinces have different Tort laws that create criteria and limits on the small frivolous law suits that are eating ICBC alive. (something the provincial Liberals, hid from the public that was contained in an independent report and didn't take action on)

Mid article, ICBC spokesperson Jo-anna Linsangan points out “We’re addressing the challenges within our current auto insurance system with the biggest reforms in B.C.’s history, which are already being instituted this year,”

Obviously IBC sees an opportunity, if they can get support for private auto insurance to fully compete with ICBC at the same time that the Tort laws change. The reduction of claims costs that is forecast to occur can then be claimed as being the result of competition.

I expect we'll be seeing and hearing lots more on this topic from the private insurers as we get closer to the restructuring and law change.

So, lets give our system two years to be implemented and the claims under the old Tort laws to be cleared off the books and see who pays less.


I am smelling a waft of self interest here 5cents. Seems clear that ICBC's continued monopoly is in your best interest. Insurance office perhaps?? No work in comparing underwriters to make the sale and collect the 40% commision.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby jimmy4321 » Aug 15th, 2019, 5:06 pm

I disagree, I say ICBC needs to go - Gone without a trace.

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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby OKkayak » Aug 15th, 2019, 6:40 pm

ICBC needs to go and be changed to IC bye bye :smt045
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby bb49 » Aug 15th, 2019, 6:52 pm

Anyone who supports ICBC hasn't a clue what the word competition means or what it does in a market place.
I would suggest these supporters look up the definition.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby 1791 » Aug 15th, 2019, 6:56 pm

ICBC employees are the only people who like ICBC. Oh and scammers. They love ICBC too
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby richking » Aug 15th, 2019, 7:28 pm

ICBC is a ripoff and needs to go!! I cant believe the bc government is constantly approving their annual rate hikes... oh wait.. I can... cus they pocket a piece of the pie!

I just got a quote to insure my motorcycle for 3 months under just basic coverage and the lowest liability possible.. no other coverage. Pretty much just barely able to "legally" be on the road. Icbc wants $300. Really??? For literally nothing? Car is no different! Any other province you are paying that for full coverage!

U know what they say... dont steal, government hates competition
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby GordonH » Aug 15th, 2019, 8:06 pm

1791 wrote:ICBC employees are the only people who like ICBC. Oh and scammers. They love ICBC too


As well those with a terrible driving record, because private insurance companies can deny if consider high risk.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby Chyren » Aug 16th, 2019, 6:49 am

Understand the government will fight to protect their revenues from ICBC as they are often used, usually during re-election phases, to "top up" the balance sheet to make the budgets look balanced. That's what happened during the last government's pillaging of the ICBC coffers.

Even if they eventually allow for private insurance I'm sure that they'll be getting a lot off the top to keep the money flowing.

Is that really a bad thing? Well there are pros and cons for sure but a lot of ICBC funds are used for highways and roads. That's good.

Bad is when we see stuff like "this guy got 40 million dollars" or such nonsense.

Either way all the government as to do is legislate some kind of parity with government insurance and the rates will still be high.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby zoo » Aug 16th, 2019, 7:56 am

Nope, ICBC needs to go. Governments cannot run any business successfully unless it is such a lucrative opportunity that it just pours cash. The only reason government still owns it is because it is supplying them with something, and still working for them, not us...

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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby my5cents » Aug 16th, 2019, 11:40 am

I wonder if any of those who's automatic response to any topic on ICBC is get "rid of it", "privatize auto insurance", etc have a clue on the subject.

My point is that months before a long needed change in tort law, that was ignored, (and in fact a report supporting it, hidden by the Provincial Liberals) is implemented, a private lobby group, is calling for drastic changes.

If the report commissioned by the provincial Liberals in 2014 by Ernst & Young had been properly considered and acted upon, there is little wonder, how well ICBC would be doing today. https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/ ... ial-crisis

Do any of those so adamant to dump ICBC have any idea what the ins and outs of auto insurance in Canada involves ?

Here's an except from a report commissioned by the Trial Lawyers Association of BC, authored by Rose Anne Devlin PhD.
http://www.bcpolicyperspectives.com/med ... 2017_2/pdf

    "All private insurance regimes have restrictions on the amount of money that can be awarded by the courts for pain and suffering, as indicated in table A1a. Those provinces that have maximum awards for pain and suffering for minor injuries, namely Alberta, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador, are not usually considered as no-fault jurisdictions. Whereas Ontario, which limits the right to sue for pain and suffering to injuries that are deemed to be ‘severe’, is considered to be a ‘partial’ no-fault regime.

    Of the four public insurance provinces, three have no-fault regimes. Manitoba and Quebec do not allow any suits for pain and suffering, and Saskatchewan imposes a $5,000 deductible on awards for pain and suffering (since 2003, Saskatchewan has allowed drivers to opt out of no-fault provisions, but this is rarely done). Manitoba and Saskatchewan would be considered as ‘partial’ no-fault regimes as the right to sue for economic losses in excess of no-fault benefits is maintained.

    By contrast, Quebec has a pure no-fault system for all road accidents involving bodily injuries. This means that Quebecers cannot resort to the tort system to sue for additional damage recovery.
"

So, basically the private provinces, AB, NB, NS, PEI, and NL have caps on tort awards for minor injuries. ON has a form of No Fault, and the public provinces, SK, MB, QC have No Fault regimes, with BC wide open to suits for any injury no matter the severity.

I suggest all the competition in the world isn't going to do anything with the cost of claims in BC. Once the tort changes are implemented, I think we'll see a big change in premiums in BC.

The "chant" from IBC that "Competition will cut insurance costs" is a red herring.

Most who spout low cost comparisons compare BC to AB. The real story there is that insurance rates for Auto Insurance in AB is controlled by the Alberta Rate Board and the auto insurance industry is up in arms because they have been limited to a small increase compared to their loss ratio. This lack of profitability is causing all sorts of problems for drivers with seemingly minor driving records : https://www.armourinsurance.ca/blog/alb ... -in-crisis

    This will affect and has already affected Albertan's who have indicator's of poor risk in their history.

    1.Drivers that have been cancelled or have had payment issues in the past will have trouble finding any payment plans available to them.

    2.Drivers with more than 1 ticket in the last 3 years or more than one at fault claim in the last 6 years will likely have to pay the full annual premium up front.

    3.In many cases credit ratings will be used to determine the availability of payment options.

    4.Depending on prior claims, convictions and credit rating it may not be possible for drivers to get collision or comprehensive coverage

So, if all this competition in the auto insurance business in Alberta is so great, why does Alberta need the "Alberta Rate Board" ??? As you can see in the article the auto insurance industry is crying for larger increases in a province that already has a cap on minor injuries.

How many feel that one ticket in the last 3 years is an indicator of being a "poor risk" ?

Government insurance was implemented in BC in 1974 for a GOOD reason. Mismanagement by a government that has allowed the Trial Lawyers their way in dictating that BC shouldn't follow the rest of Canada in eliminating or at least capping frivolous claims by implementing a form of threshold no fault.

As for government revenue. ICBC was designed to be not for profit. The NDP played games by giving rebates from profits, the Liberals blatantly used ICBC as a cash cow describing there ill-gotten gains as a "dividends". If any future government plays games with that concept that government should be dumped, not ICBC.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby Jlabute » Aug 16th, 2019, 12:43 pm

I admit I am not keen on ICBC. I have the maximum discount and pay more than $1800 a year, and this includes saving money on comprehensive thru a private insurer. I doubt accredited shops are ripping ICBC off, although the tiniest fender benders seem expensive, they risk getting audited.


https://www.ara.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/CRD-dashboard-2017.pdf

Shop rates are competitive with other provinces
Capture.PNG


BC injuries/Fatalities are lower than other provinces
Capture2.PNG


Seems like we need competition.
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby my5cents » Aug 16th, 2019, 2:10 pm

You don't seem to understand Jlabute. The cost that is driving up the rates is the tort law. Competition won't change that.

Let's give the law change a chance, once the country is on a relatively level playing field, lets see.

I'm not a young single male, so private or government, or both, won't matter to me. I'm in the demographic that auto insurance companies love, they make their profits on people like me. I don't drive that much, garage kept vehicle rarely have a need to drive in the evening.

I was the young single male and I paid through the nose.

I was backed into in a parking lot, went around to three body shops got 3 estimates, returned to the other car's insurance company with the estimates, the lowest estimate being $800 and was given a cheque for $400 and told "if I didn't like it sue them".

I had full coverage on a car that was broken into. The insurance company paid for a no draft window and an 8-track tape. Renewal time I got a form letter "because of your claims history XYZ Ins Co. will only allow you to purchase minimum 3rd party liability coverage".

My private auto insurance for my car, the comprehensive/collision coverage was increased by 45% last year by the company that insured my home, my m/c and my car.

Can you imagine the hue and cry if ICBC raised rates by 45% (no claims, no violations) ??? Can you imagine the hue and cry if ICBC cancelled policies for one comprehensive claim ????
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby Drip_Torch » Aug 16th, 2019, 5:28 pm

my5cents wrote:So, if all this competition in the auto insurance business in Alberta is so great, why does Alberta need the "Alberta Rate Board" ??? As you can see in the article the auto insurance industry is crying for larger increases in a province that already has a cap on minor injuries.

How many feel that one ticket in the last 3 years is an indicator of being a "poor risk" ?

Government insurance was implemented in BC in 1974 for a GOOD reason. Mismanagement by a government that has allowed the Trial Lawyers their way in dictating that BC shouldn't follow the rest of Canada in eliminating or at least capping frivolous claims by implementing a form of threshold no fault.

As for government revenue. ICBC was designed to be not for profit. The NDP played games by giving rebates from profits, the Liberals blatantly used ICBC as a cash cow describing there ill-gotten gains as a "dividends". If any future government plays games with that concept that government should be dumped, not ICBC.


I love how the whole "rate board" cap imposed in Alberta really works. The 5% cap on rate increases is across the board and runs out in a couple of weeks. The 5% rate cap worked out to an average 16% rate increase for Albertan drivers. Wonder what happens in a couple weeks when the cap expires? Good fun - love the math.

The other thing is the increased competition has lead to Esurance and AIG pulling out the auto insurance market in Alberta altogether.

That's right, increased competition really means two less insurance companies willing to take a chance on auto insurance in Alberta.

twobits wrote:I am smelling a waft of self interest here 5cents. Seems clear that ICBC's continued monopoly is in your best interest. Insurance office perhaps?? No work in comparing underwriters to make the sale and collect the 40% commision.


​​​Established in 1964, Insurance Bureau of Canada (IBC) is the national industry association representing Canada’s private home, auto and business insurers.

So now that BC's auto insurance is going to change, and the BC liberal lit dumpster fire is going to be extinguished, the self interested IBC is going to come to our rescue, because that's what business interests do - right? [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Insurance Bureau of Canada : ICBC Needs Competition

Postby twobits » Aug 16th, 2019, 7:13 pm

What do you not understand about an insurance broker only having to quote one underwriter rate and collecting a 40% commision or actually having several to price check for the vehicle owner and their driver history? Do you own an insurance office as well??
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