Poll - UBI

[lifegives]

One of the other big things that a UBI solves is stigma. Right now people who are barely surviving on those social programs that a UBI would replace live with the fact that everyone else looks down on them as non-contributing members of society. Beyond just money it can provide a raft of benefits for society. Even early retirement as Sparki55 mentioned, allowing someone else to enter the workforce.

There have been some good experiments done with a UBI:

https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20 ... experiment
https://www.pri.org/stories/2020-06-16/ ... ging-those

[Smurf]

So are you saying that people won't look down on them for living off of society which is exactly what they will be doing. If I read it right you are also saying they will be able to retire early. Won't they already be retired when they are living off of the rest of society already. Where will the incentive to work, study and better yourself be.

[dirtybiker]

Why enter the workforce.

If I get to be paid for not contributing while my neighbor goes to work.
Then a portion of his cheque get handed to me.

After time he see's me living in as good or better standard as he does.

Where would his initiative to keep working come from ? So quits

and so on, and on, till nobody works and there are no wages being earned to
be garnisheed (taxed) to support the "free" money program.

I don't get why people have such a race to the bottom line of thought.

[heydaveking]

I would support a UBI if, and only if:

1) Our piece of Sh#t Charter of Rights and Freedoms gets flushed down the toilet where it belongs

2) We look after all serious mentally ill people properly and get them off the streets and look after them in a proper way that is safe for them and the general public.

3) Overhaul our laws and justice system so that the priority is doing what's best for the average citizen and keeping dangerous and repeat offenders in jail permanently .

Pretty simple really.

[Nedroj]

Don't understand how it will not increase inflation into the stratosphere or how it will be paid for.

It replaces several programs we already have and it's the type of cash influx that goes directly back into the economy. People needing UBI aren't hoarding cash.

I'd say most of them clearly don't know how to save it for a rainy day either. So giving them more money isn't the answer.
Google search what happens with the vast majority of Lottery winners. Most of them are broke in less than 10 years.
I'd also say most of them needing UBI are not willing to work harder or further their education so they won't need UBI at all.
Our Capitalist society works well enough. Those that continue to advance their knowledge and skills seem to get rewarded for their efforts. Without that incentive hardly anyone will put in that extra effort mankind needs to advance our society.

[cyruslosco66]

I would support a UBI if, and only if:

1) Our piece of Sh#t Charter of Rights and Freedoms gets flushed down the toilet where it belongs

2) We look after all serious mentally ill people properly and get them off the streets and look after them in a proper way that is safe for them and the general public.

3) Overhaul our laws and justice system so that the priority is doing what's best for the average citizen and keeping dangerous and repeat offenders in jail permanently .

Pretty simple really.

2 and 3 i fully support , number 1 i dont

[Drydenstewart]

Build it and they will come - up to the TROUGH . How long will it take to run out of other people money?

If people are working 60 hrs a week and still starving and deciding between keeping a roof over their heads or keeping their lights on, You know there is a problem with the system, not with them as people.
UBI will build the economy, it's called the trickle-up effect. If you give people that are struggling a guaranteed income, they are going to use that money to buy food, pay for their housing, pay for their bills, go back to school, buy the clothing they need to look respectable for a job interview.
So that money is going into the hands of the store owners, the landlords. It improves everyone's incomes! The money won't run out when it's circulated around in this way. Give that same money to the wealthy and it goes into an account and never comes back out, it helps nobody else but them.

We are already taking jobs away and replacing those employees with computers and robotics, What happens to the people when the robots and computers are doing all the work? UBI sets us up with a system where people will be free to create more art and inventions without having to worry about finances.

By not supporting UBI, You are literally saying that you care about nobody else but yourself.

[Drydenstewart]

I'd say most of them clearly don't know how to save it for a rainy day either. So giving them more money isn't the answer.
Google search what happens with the vast majority of Lottery winners. Most of them are broke in less than 10 years.
I'd also say most of them needing UBI are not willing to work harder or further their education so they won't need UBI at all.
Our Capitalist society works well enough. Those that continue to advance their knowledge and skills seem to get rewarded for their efforts. Without that incentive hardly anyone will put in that extra effort mankind needs to advance our society.

What about all the people that are working 60+ hours a week and are still having to decide between putting food on the table or keeping the lights on. Most of them would love to have the opportunity to go back to school and get better careers, but they can't because they can't afford to stop working to make that happen.

What about the fact that automation is taking people's jobs away, what happens when we have computers and robots doing all the work? Its the way of the future and you can't deny that. What do people do then?

[lifegives]

So are you saying that people won't look down on them for living off of society which is exactly what they will be doing. If I read it right you are also saying they will be able to retire early. Won't they already be retired when they are living off of the rest of society already. Where will the incentive to work, study and better yourself be.

Why enter the workforce.

If I get to be paid for not contributing while my neighbor goes to work.
Then a portion of his cheque get handed to me.

After time he see's me living in as good or better standard as he does.

Where would his initiative to keep working come from ? So quits

and so on, and on, till nobody works and there are no wages being earned to
be garnisheed (taxed) to support the "free" money program.

I don't get why people have such a race to the bottom line of thought.

Similar to the way many people look at giving homeless people housing you seem to be caught up on the idea that the UBI would replace what you are currently taking home. While this would be true for people making a below poverty level wage it's not the case for the vast majority of middle class. A UBI would be based around the minimums to put a roof over your head and food in your belly, and a bus pass. If you want more than the bare minimums you have to get a job to add to it.

Who would envy someone who just gets by?

Everyone still has this idea that all it takes to become a millionaire is to hard work and the spunk to hitch up your pants and put in the effort. Heck, many single mothers are working their off and barely getting by, are you saying that they're not working hard enough?

With the price of university these days are you going to tell your kid that if they want a degree they should go out and get a job? People can't better themselves or get to a higher station in life when their first thought of the day is "how am I going to feed myself?"

What you make today, how much would an extra $12,000 do for you and how could you use it to better yourself?

The previous experiments with a UBI didn't find that most people just slacked off and setttled in to watch more Jeopardy! No, they had a better life because they weren't stressed all the time and they worked to have purpose in their days, they worked to make the money to pay for extras like a vacation.

If you're not inheriting money from your family in the next decade you're pretty shafted, the wealth has accumulated and is continuing to accelerate that accumulation for the people who hold the capital right now, how much has your net worth increased during the pandemic? anything? The 10 richest people in the world grew their worth by $540 BILLION in the last year.

A UBI is paid for by the richest, and it certainly seems like they won't miss it. All the billionaires in the world hold almost $12 TRILLION, that's more than the GDP of all G20 members put together. And we can't take care of our communities?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-55793575

[Nedroj]

What about all the people that are working 60+ hours a week and are still having to decide between putting food on the table or keeping the lights on. Most of them would love to have the opportunity to go back to school and get better careers, but they can't because they can't afford to stop working to make that happen.

What about the fact that automation is taking people's jobs away, what happens when we have computers and robots doing all the work? Its the way of the future and you can't deny that. What do people do then?

I would ask those ppl working 60+hrs a week and still unable to pay for basic needs why they are in that situation and what could they have done differently to not be in it.
I would bet 90% of them took the easy route when they got out of high school. Probably started working at a restaurant and liked the cash tips, socializing with the bartenders, free food and it was a "Fun" job. 10 years later and they're still in the same position making slightly more but life expenses went up. Is that my problem they chose an easy life at the same time the rest of us got into trades or went to post-secondary education to get a career? Nope. We made better choices for the long term benefit.

[bob vernon]

It's way better to leave the homeless on the streets where they'll have to steal in order to feed themselves and buy their drugs from dealers. All this socialist nonsense might reduce crime, and who needs that? The prisons need new inmates. Give people drugs and counseling? Bad socialism. Give them a place to live? Ditto. Money to feed themselves? They'll just eat. It's better to leave them poor. We're a good Christian country and we can just step around them on our way to church.

[Smurf]

lifegives wrote:

snip!

A UBI is paid for by the richest, and it certainly seems like they won't miss it. All the billionaires in the world hold almost $12 TRILLION, that's more than the GDP of all G20 members put together. And we can't take care of our communities?

Where did that brilliant statement come from. A UBI would be paid for by every taxpayer, rich and poor, single or married, male or female. I have been retired for some time now and I still pay taxes from income earned by hard work and saved for retirement.

[cyruslosco66]

Its called trickling up , we drive the economy from the bottom up , its the only way to ensure everyone has a real shot at the canadian settler dream

If that is not sounding like the path forward i might suggest a different country because a ubi is coming to canada . its when not if .

[George Orwell 1984]

I’m thinking that a few of the posters on this forum need to head down to Cuba so they can experience UBI at it finest . The government pays $20 a month for all workers , for the rest of the needs you are on your own. The favourite saying is we pretend to work and they pretend to pay. It’s simply amazing how government supplies manage to be pilfered before they reach their destination. The black market “ Mercado Black” is where the citizens need to operate in order to survive. Coming soon to a socialist driven utopia near you.

[lifegives]

lifegives wrote:

snip!

A UBI is paid for by the richest, and it certainly seems like they won't miss it. All the billionaires in the world hold almost $12 TRILLION, that's more than the GDP of all G20 members put together. And we can't take care of our communities?

Where did that brilliant statement come from. A UBI would be paid for by every taxpayer, rich and poor, single or married, male or female. I have been retired for some time now and I still pay taxes from income earned by hard work and saved for retirement.

While I was simplifying it for the sake of brevity, no, if you were living at subsistence level with only the UBI as your only income then you would not be directly paying for it. Those with the most resources help those with the least but not to the point of destitution. Maybe with a UBI we could shake out the tax system so that it applies equally no matter your level of income, versus now where if you have more money than god you can pay the pittance to avoid the amounts the rest of us deal with.

The taxes you pay in retirement are not on monies that were previously taxed, you are paying taxes on money that either were not originally taxed (i.e. RRSP donations) or on money gained from investments (i.e. capital gains). Both of us are simplifying things for the same of understanding, but when it comes to taxes there are too many rules for most to deal with, that's why I pay someone to truly understand it for me.