Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 6:05 pm
butcher99 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 5:53 pm bullcrap.
:130:

What do I have to gain by lying?

Maybe you're the liar about the place you worked at?

Either way, I respected your post, you can choose to be ignorant if you please. :138:
35 years. all in union shops. We all worked hard. I never saw anyone say anything about anyone working too hard or putting out too much. If anything it was the exact opposite. Sure there were slow workers and fast workers but NEVER was anyone told they worked too fast. EVER. in 35 years and at least a dozen different union shops.
It has been proven over the years that although union shops make more per hour they more than make up for it in output.
Here is a very good article on why that is true.
https://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/09/un ... fficiency/
And one of the number one things unions fight for? Sick pay for employees
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 9:29 pm 35 years. all in union shops. We all worked hard. I never saw anyone say anything about anyone working too hard or putting out too much. If anything it was the exact opposite. Sure there were slow workers and fast workers but NEVER was anyone told they worked too fast. EVER. in 35 years and at least a dozen different union shops.
It has been proven over the years that although union shops make more per hour they more than make up for it in output.
Here is a very good article on why that is true.
https://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/09/un ... fficiency/
And one of the number one things unions fight for? Sick pay for employees
Bullcrap.
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Sparki55 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 9:38 pm
butcher99 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 9:29 pm 35 years. all in union shops. We all worked hard. I never saw anyone say anything about anyone working too hard or putting out too much. If anything it was the exact opposite. Sure there were slow workers and fast workers but NEVER was anyone told they worked too fast. EVER. in 35 years and at least a dozen different union shops.
It has been proven over the years that although union shops make more per hour they more than make up for it in output.
Here is a very good article on why that is true.
https://crookedtimber.org/2008/05/09/un ... fficiency/
And one of the number one things unions fight for? Sick pay for employees
Bullcrap.
Nope. 100% true. 35 years in the industry. almost all in union shops. Retired at 57 thanks to union benefits. Got 150 hours more or less unused sick time paid out when I pulled the plug. Medical, dental, pension, eye glasses, prescriptions for the last few years, all fully paid for by the company. How does that stack up with your non union jobs?
Did you even get sick pay? Mostly I think the non-union people are just jealous.
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 9:40 pm Nope. 100% true. 35 years in the industry. almost all in union shops. Retired at 57 thanks to union benefits. Got 150 hours more or less unused sick time paid out when I pulled the plug. Medical, dental, pension, eye glasses, prescriptions for the last few years, all fully paid for by the company. How does that stack up with your non union jobs?
Did you even get sick pay? Mostly I think the non-union people are just jealous.
You won't believe me even if I answer honestly.
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Sparki55 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 7:17 am
butcher99 wrote: Nov 30th, 2021, 9:40 pm Nope. 100% true. 35 years in the industry. almost all in union shops. Retired at 57 thanks to union benefits. Got 150 hours more or less unused sick time paid out when I pulled the plug. Medical, dental, pension, eye glasses, prescriptions for the last few years, all fully paid for by the company. How does that stack up with your non union jobs?
Did you even get sick pay? Mostly I think the non-union people are just jealous.
You won't believe me even if I answer honestly.
Some people just hate unions. And for no good reason. They are not perfect but they are much better than no union. It is unions that got you the 40 hour work week instead of the 80. It is unions that got you holidays etc.
So 2 people told you you work too hard. So? They going to report you to the union? No. They going to report you to the company? No.
I know quite a few people who could not figure out why they had to pay union dues since it got them nothing. Then when the company came down on them suddenly they understood what the union was for. Or, they felt they were being harassed and all of a sudden the union was there for them.
I never used the union for anything and paid my dues for years with no problem. I know what they got me.
First off, they got me sick pay. Which I seldom used. however just knowing I could take a day off work if I got ill and not loose a days pay was worth it.
The sick pay alone paid all my union dues for 35 years.
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Boosted632
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Boosted632 »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am
Sparki55 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 7:17 am

You won't believe me even if I answer honestly.
Some people just hate unions. And for no good reason. They are not perfect but they are much better than no union. It is unions that got you the 40 hour work week instead of the 80. It is unions that got you holidays etc.
So 2 people told you you work too hard. So? They going to report you to the union? No. They going to report you to the company? No.
I know quite a few people who could not figure out why they had to pay union dues since it got them nothing. Then when the company came down on them suddenly they understood what the union was for. Or, they felt they were being harassed and all of a sudden the union was there for them.
I never used the union for anything and paid my dues for years with no problem. I know what they got me.
First off, they got me sick pay. Which I seldom used. however just knowing I could take a day off work if I got ill and not loose a days pay was worth it.
The sick pay alone paid all my union dues for 35 years.
Yaaa I bet you used every one of those sick days to lol
I wouldn't Have to manage my anger if people could learn to manage their STUPIDITY
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am Some people just hate unions. And for no good reason. They are not perfect but they are much better than no union. It is unions that got you the 40 hour work week instead of the 80. It is unions that got you holidays etc.
I relate the 40 hour work week to productivity, not unions.
https://www.okta.com/identity-101/40-hour-work-week/
butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am So 2 people told you you work too hard. So? They going to report you to the union? No. They going to report you to the company? No.
No, the union I worked in was located in North Vancouver and covered multiple businesses. They acted like a band of brothers. If you were liked by them, your life was easy, if you weren't liked you were treated like garbage.

Some of the things that actually happened:
- Threatening to slash your car tires (and they carried thru) if you didn't punch out certain members that left their punch card with you and took off 30 min early.
- Stealing your lunch.
- Undoing your work completed so you have to re-do it of face punishment from management.

^^^ complaining about any of that made the harassment worse. Unless you had a camera or some other concrete proof of the harassment, the union didn't care.
butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am I know quite a few people who could not figure out why they had to pay union dues since it got them nothing. Then when the company came down on them suddenly they understood what the union was for. Or, they felt they were being harassed and all of a sudden the union was there for them.
When working well I don't disagree.
butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am I never used the union for anything and paid my dues for years with no problem. I know what they got me.
First off, they got me sick pay. Which I seldom used. however just knowing I could take a day off work if I got ill and not loose a days pay was worth it.
I can get myself sick days and all sorts of perks in a non-union environment. Currently I have 10 sick days, 5 family days, 4 weeks of vacation, and a raise each year, no union dues to pay either!
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Boosted632 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 12:15 pm
butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 11:46 am

Some people just hate unions. And for no good reason. They are not perfect but they are much better than no union. It is unions that got you the 40 hour work week instead of the 80. It is unions that got you holidays etc.
So 2 people told you you work too hard. So? They going to report you to the union? No. They going to report you to the company? No.
I know quite a few people who could not figure out why they had to pay union dues since it got them nothing. Then when the company came down on them suddenly they understood what the union was for. Or, they felt they were being harassed and all of a sudden the union was there for them.
I never used the union for anything and paid my dues for years with no problem. I know what they got me.
First off, they got me sick pay. Which I seldom used. however just knowing I could take a day off work if I got ill and not loose a days pay was worth it.
The sick pay alone paid all my union dues for 35 years.
Yaaa I bet you used every one of those sick days to lol
Why would I? If you took the time to read what I posted, we negotiated that after a maximum of 90 hours we got paid out the hours over 90 up t0 6 every January instead of just accumulating them. It was a few years before I quit that that came in so I cashed out about 150 sick days as well when I quit. When I quit i got paid out 6 weeks holidays and close to four weeks sick pay.
We also worked a 36 hour work week but got paid for 40. Every week we accumulated 4 hours time off up to a max of 16 or minus hours that was scheduled at managements convenience. So there was a 32 hour lee way there. We could owe the company 16 hours or they could owe us 16 hours time off maximum.
Those are things a good union team can get you.
Oh ya, and the pension. $55. per month per year of service. The pension sits at over 90% fully funded right now.

Who needs a union? You do.
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 9:40 pm Why would I? If you took the time to read what I posted, we negotiated that after a maximum of 90 hours we got paid out the hours over 90 up to 6 every January instead of just accumulating them. It was a few years before I quit that that came in so I cashed out about 150 sick days as well when I quit. When I quit i got paid out 6 weeks holidays and close to four weeks sick pay.
So, you are given sick days, and instead of use it or lose it system, it was a use it or get more $$$ system...

That just promotes people coming in sick so they can rack up extra $$$...
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

alanjh595 wrote: Nov 27th, 2021, 9:42 am

I am wondering if employers might start offering pay in leu for any unused "sick days" or add them to their regular annual vacation time.
I believe that this new law will directly affect all new hires' wages and bonus' as well as all existing employees and their advancement up the pay scale.
That comes up every time a minimum wage raise comes up. It never happens. It really is not a lot of money per day. Works out to about $2.30 a day for a minimum wage earner full time.

Every time raising the minimum wage comes up we hear about how many people will be laid off. Thing is, not many businesses are in the habit of carrying extra staff they can just lay off.
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Bsuds »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 12:37 pm
Every time raising the minimum wage comes up we hear about how many people will be laid off. Thing is, not many businesses are in the habit of carrying extra staff they can just lay off.
All we are hearing lately is we need more employees and can't fill the jobs no matter what we offer.
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butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Bsuds wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 2:40 pm
butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 12:37 pm
Every time raising the minimum wage comes up we hear about how many people will be laid off. Thing is, not many businesses are in the habit of carrying extra staff they can just lay off.
All we are hearing lately is we need more employees and can't fill the jobs no matter what we offer.
So then mandating sick days will not cost anyone their job or reduce their hours. Long past time for this
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 12:37 pm That comes up every time a minimum wage raise comes up. It never happens. It really is not a lot of money per day. Works out to about $2.30 a day for a minimum wage earner full-time.

Every time raising the minimum wage comes up we hear about how many people will be laid off. Thing is, not many businesses are in the habit of carrying extra staff they can just lay off.
Say you are a small business that sells bread. You have 10 staff that work 40 hours a week, you are open 7 days a week. Staff members make an average of $18 an hour. Labour costs for the year are $374,400

Your building lease is $3,400 a month, or $40,800 for the year.

Utility and other expenses are $20,000 for the year.

Total yearly expenses are $435,200, or $36,266 a month.

To stay competitive you have market prices are your bread and bring in $540,000 a year in revenue by selling 90,000 loaves of bread. After paying expenses ($435,200) and yourself ($70,000), there is $34,800 leftover for business improvements such as marketing, new equipment, etc.

Now you need to pay each staff member 5 sick days a year. A sick day needs to be covered by another worker, so you are still paying for labour that day and now an employee that isn't providing you any tangible value for the days they are sick. at $18 an hour, for 10 employees, that works out to $7,200 a year, or 20% of the gross revenue. So the price of bread goes up by .08 cents each to cover the costs. Its not huge, but add up all the other increases and that is what we are seeing.
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

Sparki55 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 3:06 pm
butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 12:37 pm That comes up every time a minimum wage raise comes up. It never happens. It really is not a lot of money per day. Works out to about $2.30 a day for a minimum wage earner full-time.

Every time raising the minimum wage comes up we hear about how many people will be laid off. Thing is, not many businesses are in the habit of carrying extra staff they can just lay off.
Say you are a small business that sells bread. You have 10 staff that work 40 hours a week, you are open 7 days a week. Staff members make an average of $18 an hour. Labour costs for the year are $374,400

Your building lease is $3,400 a month, or $40,800 for the year.

Utility and other expenses are $20,000 for the year.

Total yearly expenses are $435,200, or $36,266 a month.

To stay competitive you have market prices are your bread and bring in $540,000 a year in revenue by selling 90,000 loaves of bread. After paying expenses ($435,200) and yourself ($70,000), there is $34,800 leftover for business improvements such as marketing, new equipment, etc.

Now you need to pay each staff member 5 sick days a year. A sick day needs to be covered by another worker, so you are still paying for labour that day and now an employee that isn't providing you any tangible value for the days they are sick. at $18 an hour, for 10 employees, that works out to $7,200 a year, or 20% of the gross revenue. So the price of bread goes up by .08 cents each to cover the costs. Its not huge, but add up all the other increases and that is what we are seeing.
If $7200 a year more is making you go broke you were going broke anyway. Put the price of a loaf of bread up 1/100th of a cent and it is more than paid for.

Your argument here is that they should come in sick?

You have 10 employees only making 90,000 loaves of bread? I think you are missing at least a zero there.
You need to look at your hiring practices or better yet your management. I could bake my 10% of that and never leave my kitchen.
I can see why you are not in the bread baking business. That is only 180 loaves of bread per employee. Per week.
Vaccines are to stop you from getting covid. Don't get it can't spread it. Pretty simple.
Sparki55
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by Sparki55 »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 3:44 pm If $7200 a year more is making you go broke you were going broke anyway. Put the price of a loaf of bread up 1/100th of a cent and it is more than paid for.
Actually, it was 0.08 cents in my example.
butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 3:44 pm Your argument here is that they should come in sick?
Nope, but that is what your union preaches by rewarding people $$$ for not taking sick days.
butcher99 wrote: Dec 2nd, 2021, 3:44 pm You have 10 employees only making 90,000 loaves of bread? I think you are missing at least a zero there.
You need to look at your hiring practices or better yet your management. I could bake my 10% of that and never leave my kitchen.
I can see why you are not in the bread baking business. That is only 180 loaves of bread per employee. Per week.
I'm not in the bread-making business, it was a thought experiment. Feel free to share real numbers from somewhere then.

Its actually showing your side of the story making me agree that these sick days don't make a large impact.

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