Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

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The Mask
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Joined: Nov 25th, 2020, 12:51 pm

Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by The Mask »

There are 260 working days in a year for a full time employee. If every employee took the max 5 days off in a year, that would amount to a 1.92% loss in productivity. If your margins are so slim that a possible 2% dip in productivity is going to put you under, then your business simply isn't sustainable in the first place.

As this is your business, the onus is on you to ensure it's operation. If an employee calls in sick, yeah you might need to get someone else to fill in. In which case you're paying time and a half, but you are still meeting your productivity, but at an expense equivalent to an extra half-day's pay (so 2.5 days if all 5 sick days were used, or 0.96% increased operating cost). Or as the responsible business owner, you pick up the extra slack yourself, or you have a manager step up to assist. (Managers are exempt from OT pay).
So that's a possible max 1% increase in operating expense, or a possible max 2% loss in productivity. Hardly the death knell people are presenting. If that amount of productivity is so essential that your business depends on it, then I sure hope you are giving out pay raises and benefits. An unhappy employee who decides to leave for a better opportunity is going to cripple your entire business.

It's important to note that there are many other countries in the world which have a less than 40 hour working week. They find that they get more productivity out of their employees during the scheduled work hours, as the employees overall are happier, and have a better work life balance. Other countries manage to pay significantly better too. a McDonalds in Denmark pays their employees significantly more than one here, yet their food is still priced comparably. This is because prices are based on market rates, not expenses. If expenses exceed rates, a business cannot operate. If there are fewer businesses providing supply, then the increased demand will enable prices to rise, which will make that business profitable (but not necessarily 10 different flower shops for a small town). It's pretty basic economics.
Lately because of labour shortages, we've seen fast food restaurants and other workplaces which have previously only offered the bare minimum they could legally get away with paying people up to $20 an hour. This means they were always capable of doing this before, but used lax regulations to gain more exploitation out of their workers for the least possible compensation. This will always continue to happen. And over the past several decades, the total amount of productivity that has been generated has far outpaced the increase in wage/salary. So where is that money going? Well it's probably not a mystery of how the wealth gap continues to increase.

So many of the same arguments I'm seeing here are the same things we hear every year about raising minimum wage. About giving breaks, bathroom time, vacation, appropriate working hours, weekends, child labour. If we took the businesses at their word and never made laws based around human wellbeing but rather simply permitted the worst types of abuses we've otherwise worked to eliminate - then we would likely see businesses operating paying almost nothing or rather company credits/Scrip, where your only choice is to live in company controlled housing, and you and your children work 12+ hours a day without weekends. It sounds awfully familiar...

I think if you rely on humans to provide labour, then you need to treat them as humans, and recognize human needs. If you can't do that, then maybe try again when robots are better.
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TheBanHammer
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by TheBanHammer »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 5:36 pm
Boosted632 wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 4:21 pm Wow 5 paid days off to go skiing just another nail in the small business coffin thanks ndp
Maybe its high time that small businesses find a new way to support themselves and not sustain themselves off of the Liberal party subsidies. Just pass the costs to the consumers and not off of hard-working people's backs.
What??? Every small business owner I know has started with what they have managed to save for years and a bank loan and do not have any government subsidy. One had a rebate from Fortis for upgrading their building Since they started they have had their insurance go through the roof, the cost of medical for BC residents passed on to them, the minimum wage pushed on to them and now sick days all courtesy of the liberals. I always see this"if they can't handle it they shouldn't be in business". Talk about having zero knowledge about business, how about if you don't like what they offer don't work there? Pretty simple, no one is forced to work anywhere! Government has no business dictating a businesses policy. Most new start ups take a couple of years before they turn a profit and get up and running. All this will do is kill small business. I love how those who never take any risk and spend a life time never employing one single person like to tell entrepreneurs how their business should run. Yes so awesome when you get a loan for tens of thousands and in your first year or two the government slaps mandatory policies on you especially during a pandemic and persistent inflation that add a few thousand during the period where you are barely breaking even.You could say then they shouldn't start a business if they can't afford it but then the same could be said for anyone continuing their education. I guess they have no business getting a student loan. Yes some companies can afford it but it is the wrong time for small businesses trying to get off the ground. Sick days should be something that an employee becomes eligible for after demonstrating the habit of showing up for work consistently and on time. The last few years I have worked with some of the laziest people I have ever met and the attitude that just showing up should get them high praise and top wages. Unless you are someone employing people and providing all the things you believe they should receive, all you contribute is an opinion which requires no risk, no capital, no guts and no effort.
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TheBanHammer
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by TheBanHammer »

butcher99 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 9:40 pm
Boosted632 wrote: Dec 1st, 2021, 12:15 pm

Yaaa I bet you used every one of those sick days to lol
Why would I? If you took the time to read what I posted, we negotiated that after a maximum of 90 hours we got paid out the hours over 90 up t0 6 every January instead of just accumulating them. It was a few years before I quit that that came in so I cashed out about 150 sick days as well when I quit. When I quit i got paid out 6 weeks holidays and close to four weeks sick pay.
We also worked a 36 hour work week but got paid for 40. Every week we accumulated 4 hours time off up to a max of 16 or minus hours that was scheduled at managements convenience. So there was a 32 hour lee way there. We could owe the company 16 hours or they could owe us 16 hours time off maximum.
Those are things a good union team can get you.
Oh ya, and the pension. $55. per month per year of service. The pension sits at over 90% fully funded right now.

Who needs a union? You do.
Well you seem to have worked for the right union. I have worked for 3 different unions the last one for 24 years. I agree some aspects were excellent, I had a pension, 100% medical and dental, LTD, 10% holiday pay and job protection. The last item I did not require. During those years the union made it possible for people who for all intents and purposes would be deemed unemployable to keep a job. This is just some employees let me be clear, however these employees were quite literally pylons that you had to walk around. During cold season we regularly ran the plant with 40% of staff absent, not because they were sick rather because one person went home sick and then they jumped on the sick band wagon. Workers comp is there for injured workers yet we had massive amounts fraudulent claims. For instance one fella missed six weeks for shooting his finger with a stapler. This was totally a superficial wound but he hammed it up. I stapled my arm to a sheet of OSB when I slipped on the ladder. I had the staple removed and was back to work 20 minutes later. The staple went through my wrist and pinned a tendon and you could not see the crown of the staple it was so deep. My point is this was a union shop where some people abused every aspect of the contract. The company had to adopt a 3 times and your out policy after lengthy negotiation with the union. Between 5 and 10 thousand dollars worth of tools walked out the door every 3 months as well. So while you seem to have had a great experience it is not the same for every union shop. I had no problems to speak of at that job personally but it does not make for pleasant conditions having to carry slackers who are getting paid the same money that you are working your butt off. I don't miss the place at all. I am non union now make twice as much and have great benefits, but I started with none at lower pay. You would be surprised what some business owners are willing to give those who work for it. Nowadays people show up do their mandatory duties and nothing else. If one doesn't do extra why should they be paid extra.
butcher99
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by butcher99 »

TheBanHammer wrote: Jan 22nd, 2022, 6:27 am

Well you seem to have worked for the right union. I have worked for 3 different unions the last one for 24 years. I agree some aspects were excellent, I had a pension, 100% medical and dental, LTD, 10% holiday pay and job protection. The last item I did not require. During those years the union made it possible for people who for all intents and purposes would be deemed unemployable to keep a job. This is just some employees let me be clear, however these employees were quite literally pylons that you had to walk around. During cold season we regularly ran the plant with 40% of staff absent, not because they were sick rather because one person went home sick and then they jumped on the sick band wagon. Workers comp is there for injured workers yet we had massive amounts fraudulent claims. For instance one fella missed six weeks for shooting his finger with a stapler. This was totally a superficial wound but he hammed it up. I stapled my arm to a sheet of OSB when I slipped on the ladder. I had the staple removed and was back to work 20 minutes later. The staple went through my wrist and pinned a tendon and you could not see the crown of the staple it was so deep. My point is this was a union shop where some people abused every aspect of the contract. The company had to adopt a 3 times and your out policy after lengthy negotiation with the union. Between 5 and 10 thousand dollars worth of tools walked out the door every 3 months as well. So while you seem to have had a great experience it is not the same for every union shop. I had no problems to speak of at that job personally but it does not make for pleasant conditions having to carry slackers who are getting paid the same money that you are working your butt off. I don't miss the place at all. I am non union now make twice as much and have great benefits, but I started with none at lower pay. You would be surprised what some business owners are willing to give those who work for it. Nowadays people show up do their mandatory duties and nothing else. If one doesn't do extra why should they be paid extra.
There are slackers in no union jobs just as there are slackers in union jobs. An employer cannot just fire someone. They need just cause. Of course non-union employers do fire without cause but they just hope that the employee does not come back and sue them.
As to the guy with the finger, some people are just good at working the system. I bet he bragged about to all his buddies as well. Union or no union he was off for as long as he could string it out. And it cost the employer next to nothing as workers comp would have paid.
If he managed to string it out to 6 weeks blame his doctor and workers comp.
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bb49
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Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by bb49 »

TheBanHammer wrote: Jan 22nd, 2022, 6:01 am
nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 24th, 2021, 5:36 pm

Maybe its high time that small businesses find a new way to support themselves and not sustain themselves off of the Liberal party subsidies. Just pass the costs to the consumers and not off of hard-working people's backs.
What??? Every small business owner I know has started with what they have managed to save for years and a bank loan and do not have any government subsidy.
.
.
.
The last few years I have worked with some of the laziest people I have ever met and the attitude that just showing up should get them high praise and top wages. Unless you are someone employing people and providing all the things you believe they should receive, all you contribute is an opinion which requires no risk, no capital, no guts and no effort.
Being a newbie here, you may not be too familiar with this canuck guy.
But a little search will tell you all you need to know, a little left of the NDP.

Small business. :thumbsdown:
Boomers. :thumbsdown:
Volunteers. Nothing but commies.
February 14, 2022. The day Democracy died in Canada.
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TheBanHammer
Posts: 41
Joined: Jan 17th, 2022, 10:43 am

Re: Paid sick leave for employees in B.C.

Post by TheBanHammer »

butcher99 wrote: Jan 22nd, 2022, 8:17 am
TheBanHammer wrote: Jan 22nd, 2022, 6:27 am

Well you seem to have worked for the right union. I have worked for 3 different unions the last one for 24 years. I agree some aspects were excellent, I had a pension, 100% medical and dental, LTD, 10% holiday pay and job protection. The last item I did not require. During those years the union made it possible for people who for all intents and purposes would be deemed unemployable to keep a job. This is just some employees let me be clear, however these employees were quite literally pylons that you had to walk around. During cold season we regularly ran the plant with 40% of staff absent, not because they were sick rather because one person went home sick and then they jumped on the sick band wagon. Workers comp is there for injured workers yet we had massive amounts fraudulent claims. For instance one fella missed six weeks for shooting his finger with a stapler. This was totally a superficial wound but he hammed it up. I stapled my arm to a sheet of OSB when I slipped on the ladder. I had the staple removed and was back to work 20 minutes later. The staple went through my wrist and pinned a tendon and you could not see the crown of the staple it was so deep. My point is this was a union shop where some people abused every aspect of the contract. The company had to adopt a 3 times and your out policy after lengthy negotiation with the union. Between 5 and 10 thousand dollars worth of tools walked out the door every 3 months as well. So while you seem to have had a great experience it is not the same for every union shop. I had no problems to speak of at that job personally but it does not make for pleasant conditions having to carry slackers who are getting paid the same money that you are working your butt off. I don't miss the place at all. I am non union now make twice as much and have great benefits, but I started with none at lower pay. You would be surprised what some business owners are willing to give those who work for it. Nowadays people show up do their mandatory duties and nothing else. If one doesn't do extra why should they be paid extra.
There are slackers in no union jobs just as there are slackers in union jobs. An employer cannot just fire someone. They need just cause. Of course non-union employers do fire without cause but they just hope that the employee does not come back and sue them.
As to the guy with the finger, some people are just good at working the system. I bet he bragged about to all his buddies as well. Union or no union he was off for as long as he could string it out. And it cost the employer next to nothing as workers comp would have paid.
If he managed to string it out to 6 weeks blame his doctor and workers comp.
Cost the company nothing lololol we had the worst compo rate in BC and it cost the company half a mil in premiums.

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