Protesting nurses

[maple leaf]

You are so wrong, these protests are organized by fake groups pretending to be front-line nurses, who spread false claims that undermine scientific facts. Every sign carried in those protests is disinformation, misrepresentation of facts, and misguided understandings of the laws within Canada. These people are sadly delusional and have their minds corrupted from conspiracies and false fake claims found on some sites on the internet and the false claims spouted over and over by the likes of the protest organizers.

Wow! And you quote Albert Einstein. The sheepherder said " you are all really good sheep, I never have to yell at you to fall in line. You always listen to my every command without question. If all sheep were like this I wouldn't need a darn border collie to keep you in line!" Translation: there is nothing more important on this planet than freedom

And you have the freedom of choice to get vaccinated or not. No one is holding you down and injecting you.

[spooker]

We all should understand by now what's being gambled by those who have decided, based on the information they have now, to mandate that nurses and other health care professionals must be vaccinated against covid.

And of course there's no reason to err on the side of caution ... not when we can continue to question the science

[maple leaf]

200,000 health care professionals =/= 200,000 nurses.




Rustled

Where are you getting the number 200,000 unvaccinated nurses from when there are only 439.995 in all of Canada?
https://www.cna-aiic.ca/en/nursing-prac ... statistics

There are more than 40,000 nurses across British Columbia. Neither the union nor the province has official vaccination rates, but the estimates are between 90 to 95 per cent. So approx 2000 and out of those 2000 many will now go and get themselves vaccinated and some of the rest will have legitimate reasons for not getting vaccinated , leaving a few nut jobs sawyed by misinformation , conspiracies, and false claims spewed by the bogus nurses and their false misleading claims who organized the protests.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8191286/bc-n ... e-mandate/

Look at what one of the protest organizers believes in and is spreading around.

Nagle
"You can't catch a virus," Nagle wrote on Facebook on August 15.
According to her, viruses "are found within to help us detox and get back to balance".
The Straight is reposting more of her comments below to provide context.
"What if everything you learned wasn't true?" Nagle asked at the start of the post. "Germ theory never been proven. Bacteria aren't bad guys and are actually essential to life. Polio wasn't cause by a virus and its near eradication wasn't due to a [vaccine]. Spanish Flu wasn't caused by a virus.
"Rabies is actually from malnourishment and mistreatment," Nagle continued in her post. "Mumps, measles, chickenpox are benign and part of childhood phases essential for development. Contagion has never been proven."
Nagle went on to write that our bodies are capable of healing.
"We were created divinely and perfect in God's image with no mistakes, therefore vit k or childhood immunizations are not only not necessary but harmful," she stated. "Food impacts [our] health. Emotions impact our health. We do not need pharmaceuticals."

[rustled]

We all should understand by now what's being gambled by those who have decided, based on the information they have now, to mandate that nurses and other health care professionals must be vaccinated against covid.

And of course there's no reason to err on the side of caution ... not when we can continue to question the science

As long as we're clear on the gamble: risking the consequences of losing nurses when we can ill afford to lose nurses, vs risking the consequences of retaining nurses who have not been vaccinated.

[rustled]

200,000 health care professionals =/= 200,000 nurses.




Rustled

Where are you getting the number 200,000 unvaccinated nurses from when there are only 439.995 in all of Canada?
https://www.cna-aiic.ca/en/nursing-prac ... statistics

I'm not. The sign in the equation shows 200,000 health care professionals does not equal 200,000 nurses. I've provided both figures, someone else suggested what you assumed, I posted "does not equal" to show the mistake. Sorry if that caused more confusion.

There are more than 40,000 nurses across British Columbia. Neither the union nor the province has official vaccination rates, but the estimates are between 90 to 95 per cent. So approx 2000 and out of those 2000 many will now go and get themselves vaccinated and some of the rest will have legitimate reasons for not getting vaccinated , leaving a few nut jobs sawyed by misinformation , conspiracies, and false claims spewed by the bogus nurses and their false misleading claims who organized the protests.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8191286/bc-n ... e-mandate/

The news story I linked to gave the union's estimate. It's likely somewhere between theirs and the government's.

I don't share your belief the nurses who leave their positions are nut jobs - IMO, they have more health background and more immediate experience with covid patients than I have, and I've no legitimate basis for publicly posting disrespectful opinions about their choices.

Regardless, the result will likely be the loss of nursing staff when we're being told we can't afford any loss of nursing staff.

Look at what one of the protest organizers believes in and is spreading around.

While it's your prerogative to believe the majority of health care professionals who have chosen not to be vaccinated are looking at that, I'm not prepared to make the same assumption.

[WESTman]

Laying off healthcare workers during supposedly the worst pandemic in a 100 years when hospitals are already stretched thin. Dosen't seem to make much sense does it? They have been doing a damn good job for the last 18 months. What risk does a unvaccinated healthcare worker pose when presumably they are getting tested regularly, and the people they have serving have had the choice whether or not to vaccinate for months?

[rustled]

Laying off healthcare workers during supposedly the worst pandemic in a 100 years when hospitals are already stretched thin. Dosen't seem to make much sense does it? They have been doing a damn good job for the last 18 months. What risk does a unvaccinated healthcare worker pose when presumably they are getting tested regularly, and the people they have serving have had the choice whether or not to vaccinate for months?

Apparently the majority of the public wants all nurses and other health care workers to have to be vaccinated, just as the majority of the public supports the vaxports.

We will probably never know just how much influence public perception is having on how the pandemic is being managed - which decisions have been influenced by what the public wants and is therefore most politically expedient, as opposed to what's truly in our communal long-term best interests regardless of whether or not we "like" it.

[Thinktank]

Every sign carried in those protests is disinformation, ..

And yet millions of youtube comments say something like this:
"My grandmother had zero vaccines in her life and never got the diseases, cancer, diabetes, heart disease
that everyone else gets, and lived to a hundred. My grandfather also had no vaccines and lived to ninety five."

What's with science all of a sudden saying everyone is dead without a vaccine.

In Russia only 30% got covid vaccine - they're not dead.
Pakistan - 5% - they're not dead.
Africa - 1% - they're not dead.

And Estonia, Hungary, Poland and Norway never got flu shots more than 10% - they're not dead.
China - only 1% got flu shots they're not dead.

[maple leaf]

Look at what one of the protest organizers believes in and is spreading around.

While it's your prerogative to believe the majority of health care professionals who have chosen not to be vaccinated are looking at that, I'm not prepared to make the same assumption.

I'm not saying every unvaccinated NURSE is doing so because of what the one person pretending to be representing legitimate nurses believe and is organizing protests has to say. But it is and example off the kinds of misleading information spread by X nurses claiming to be legit nurses followed and believed in by the protesters who flooded the hospital.

If there are some nurses refusing to get vaccinated based on beliefs in conspiracies and false misleading claims that don't jive with the science presented by the majority of scientists backing the Covid research and recommendations in my books are nut jobs and don't deserve to be nurses.

[rustled]

While it's your prerogative to believe the majority of health care professionals who have chosen not to be vaccinated are looking at that, I'm not prepared to make the same assumption.

I'm not saying every unvaccinated NURSE is doing so because of what the one person pretending to be representing legitimate nurses believe and is organizing protests has to say. But it is and example off the kinds of misleading information spread by X nurses claiming to be legit nurses followed and believed in by the protesters who flooded the hospital.

Thank you for clarifying. We are unlikely to ever know how much impact that information has had on any of the unvaccinated nurses. It's likely some of the folk who showed up at the protests were influenced by it, while others may well have simply shown up to support nurses keeping their jobs regardless of whether or not they are vaccinated. Hard to say.

If there are some nurses refusing to get vaccinated based on beliefs in conspiracies and false misleading claims that don't jive with the science presented by the majority of scientists backing the Covid research and recommendations in my books are nut jobs and don't deserve to be nurses.

Again, while you can publicly declare your opinion about whether or not they deserve to be nurses, I'm not prepared to make that sort of judgement call about someone I don't know - particularly someone who has been serving as a nurse and has not had cause to lose their licence to practice because of how they have been doing their job.

The bottom line for all of us is that although we are being told we have a serious shortage of nurses at this time, we are likely to lose some to the mandate.

[spooker]

What are you sources? A recent article actually cited 90-95% of the nurses ... and saying that 200,000 have opted not to get vaccinated seems specious when the nurses union has 40,000 nurses in the province ... the numbers don't quite add up ...

viewtopic.php?p=2885848#p2885848

200,000 health care professionals =/= 200,000 nurses.

I was not saying 200,000 nurses ... the article does state:

Responding to concerns that losing unvaccinated staff could cause a systemic crash, Adrian Dix says they are preparing for the worst, which would be about 200,000 workers choosing not to be vaccinated for their job.

I followed up with one of the authors of the article and to clarify and she said:

The numbers I had in my story is the mandate affects 200000 health care workers. 49000 as of Oct 12 in long term and acute care. 150000 ball park by Oct 26th in the rest of health care.

And of that 200000 total about 48000 are BCNU members.

So you're statement, "About 200,000 health care professionals in our province have chosen not to be vaccinated." which is what I was questioning in the first place does work from an erroneous assumption ... that's quite a large factor to be off ...

[Boosted632]

Wow! And you quote Albert Einstein. The sheepherder said " you are all really good sheep, I never have to yell at you to fall in line. You always listen to my every command without question. If all sheep were like this I wouldn't need a darn border collie to keep you in line!" Translation: there is nothing more important on this planet than freedom

And you have the freedom of choice to get vaccinated or not. No one is holding you down and injecting you.

Making someone choose between their job and getting an untested vaccine isn't forcing them are you serious? I'm sure it won't be long until the military is knocking on doors and forcing people at gun point to get a vaccine that isn't even a vaccine this flu has been blown waaay out of proportion

[rustled]

viewtopic.php?p=2885848#p2885848

200,000 health care professionals =/= 200,000 nurses.

I was not saying 200,000 nurses ... the article does state:

Responding to concerns that losing unvaccinated staff could cause a systemic crash, Adrian Dix says they are preparing for the worst, which would be [about 200,000 original story was edited to say "thousands of"] workers choosing not to be vaccinated for their job.

I was responding to your complaint "A recent article actually cited 90-95% of the nurses ... and saying that 200,000 have opted not to get vaccinated seems specious when the nurses union has 40,000 nurses in the province ... the numbers don't quite add up ..." - that the numbers I'd quoted didn't add up.

My point was that they weren't meant to.

I followed up with one of the authors of the article and to clarify and she said:

The numbers I had in my story is the mandate affects 200000 health care workers. 49000 as of Oct 12 in long term and acute care. 150000 ball park by Oct 26th in the rest of health care.

And of that 200000 total about 48000 are BCNU members.

So you're statement, "About 200,000 health care professionals in our province have chosen not to be vaccinated." which is what I was questioning in the first place does work from an erroneous assumption ... that's quite a large factor to be off ...

So she told you the mandate affects 200,000 workers. Would it affect them because they're unvaccinated - otherwise it wouldn't affect them? Or, are you trying to tell us we only have 200,000 health care workers, vaccinated and unvaccinated?

Sorry, I don't get what you're attempting to show us here.

The bottom line is that we seem to have more than 10% of nurses who must get vaccinated or be laid off, and not all of our doctors are vaccinated:

The provincial health officer has said the vaccination rate for nurses is above 85 per cent, and for doctors over it’s 90 percent. In general, Dr. Bonnie Henry said it is in line with the provincial average, with regions like Northern and Interior Health having lower rates.

some of whom may be unvaccinated because they can't be, some likely have chosen not to be, and the mandate is likely to result in a further reduction of staff.

[maple leaf]

And you have the freedom of choice to get vaccinated or not. No one is holding you down and injecting you.

Making someone choose between their job and getting an untested vaccine isn't forcing them are you serious? I'm sure it won't be long until the military is knocking on doors and forcing people at gun point to get a vaccine that isn't even a vaccine this flu has been blown waaay out of proportion

Talk about blowing things out of proportion.
Like in everyday choices we are faced with there are also consequences to the choices we make. Lots of professions have job requirements for employment. Where I worked I had the wear steel-toed boots and was told it was a requirement of my employment. If you don't want to fulfill what an employer requires you to whether that be academic requirements, skills requirements, or someplace clothing you must wear or having a vaccine to protect those you will be caring for. You better seek another job.

[maple leaf]

The bottom line is that we seem to have more than 10% of nurses who must get vaccinated or be laid off, and not all of our doctors are vaccinated:

The provincial health officer has said the vaccination rate for nurses is above 85 per cent, and for doctors over it’s 90 percent. In general, Dr. Bonnie Henry said it is in line with the provincial average, with regions like Northern and Interior Health having lower rates.

some of whom may be unvaccinated because they can't be, some likely have chosen not to be, and the mandate is likely to result in a further reduction of staff.

There has also been mention of just moving those nurses who aren't vaccinated for whatever reason into other positions that would not be required to have vaccinations. I don't know what those positions would be. I'm just saying what I have heard.