B.C.'s minimum wage to be increased to $16.75 per hour

[youjustcomplain]

Underneath all the rhetoric is the issue of just what the employee's place in the supply line is, and the morality behind concepts like minimum wage and a living wage. We find it easy to brush off things like CEOs making multi-million dollar salaries as "the way things should be" yet scoff at the idea that someone with a full-time job should be able to bring home enough money to deal with today's cost of living. "Go back to school" or "Just get a better job", or my personal favorite "If you can't afford to live here then move", or other equally short-sighted platitudes fill the airwaves while the basic immorality of economic inequality goes unchallenged. The system is broken, a systemic re-distribution of wealth is needed, and part of that means that low income earners need the realistic value of their contribution to be recognized.

Though I agree with what you're saying, I still find myself wondering a few things though.
As minimum wage pushes closer to income made by skilled workers, the incentives to learn those skills goes down. Most of us made a choice with regards to the work we do. We chose a profession that interested us, or offered the benefits we wanted/needed. In order to keep those jobs filled though, I suspect we have to see those jobs pay more too. As everyone gets paid more, the price of everything increases. What is the impact on the minimum wage earner? I suspect they end up no further ahead.

Part of me would really rather government not set a minimum wage and just let business compete for labour with wages and benefits. If we dropped the minimum wage today to nothing. Any employer who tried to hire staff at less than $20 per hour would struggle to find staff, just as they do now. Where I work, we all make well over $50 per hour (if worked out hourly), and we struggle to find staff. Pay isn't the reason.

[Urban Cowboy]

Underneath all the rhetoric is the issue of just what the employee's place in the supply line is, and the morality behind concepts like minimum wage and a living wage. We find it easy to brush off things like CEOs making multi-million dollar salaries as "the way things should be" yet scoff at the idea that someone with a full-time job should be able to bring home enough money to deal with today's cost of living. "Go back to school" or "Just get a better job", or my personal favorite "If you can't afford to live here then move", or other equally short-sighted platitudes fill the airwaves while the basic immorality of economic inequality goes unchallenged. The system is broken, a systemic re-distribution of wealth is needed, and part of that means that low income earners need the realistic value of their contribution to be recognized.

The system was already broken all the way back to the sixties from my recollection.

A lot of stuff is short-sighted and unfair but there seems little desire to fix it.

I remember very well how rampant nepotism was (and still is), particularly in well paying union positions, and many government positions, with much better qualified candidates being passed over in favor of friends and relatives. In fact much like how the NDP operates now.

Speaking for myself that's precisely why I despise the NDP so much. They're great at lip service but in the end the only people who benefit are their friends and family.

Where CEOs are concerned, I've always been of the mind that there should also be a maximum wage, but it's not as though that concept would ever gain any traction. After all if someone is already getting paid millions to perform a specific job, why on earth should they get millions more in bonuses for doing the job they were hired to do?

For most of us it's a matter of do the job you're paid to do, or get canned if you suck at it.

I've also always been a fan of piecework renumeration as I view it as the great equalizer. You earn based on what you produce, so if you stink at your job you'll earn peanuts, but at the same time the business won't be out any money due to slackers, which is always a risk when paying hourly.

[Even Steven]

Where CEOs are concerned, I've always been of the mind that there should also be a maximum wage, but it's not as though that concept would ever gain any traction. After all if someone is already getting paid millions to perform a specific job, why on earth should they get millions more in bonuses for doing the job they were hired to do?

Because their employers see the value they bring to the table?

[Urban Cowboy]

Where CEOs are concerned, I've always been of the mind that there should also be a maximum wage, but it's not as though that concept would ever gain any traction. After all if someone is already getting paid millions to perform a specific job, why on earth should they get millions more in bonuses for doing the job they were hired to do?

Because their employers see the value they bring to the table?

Yeah hence why they're getting paid millions in the first place.

Then again, I guess it's not as though the bonuses are coming out of the employers pockets.

They'll just cut a smaller cheque to the shareholders.

[Babba_not_Gump]

Just think of the difference it would make if we weren't taxed so heavily.

If our gross pay was the same and our take home pay was 30, 40% higher due to fewer deductions, damn, we wouldn't be so far from easy street.

[rustled]

As minimum wage pushes closer to income made by skilled workers, the incentives to learn those skills goes down. Most of us made a choice with regards to the work we do. We chose a profession that interested us, or offered the benefits we wanted/needed. In order to keep those jobs filled though, I suspect we have to see those jobs pay more too. As everyone gets paid more, the price of everything increases. What is the impact on the minimum wage earner? I suspect they end up no further ahead.

Part of me would really rather government not set a minimum wage and just let business compete for labour with wages and benefits. If we dropped the minimum wage today to nothing. Any employer who tried to hire staff at less than $20 per hour would struggle to find staff, just as they do now. Where I work, we all make well over $50 per hour (if worked out hourly), and we struggle to find staff. Pay isn't the reason.

Good points.

[rustled]

Just think of the difference it would make if we weren't taxed so heavily.

If our gross pay was the same and our take home pay was 30, 40% higher due to fewer deductions, damn, we wouldn't be so far from easy street.

[Even Steven]

Yeah hence why they're getting paid millions in the first place.

Then again, I guess it's not as though the bonuses are coming out of the employers pockets.

They'll just cut a smaller cheque to the shareholders.

Shareholders = employers

And shareholders are happy to pay millions to a good CEO because it raises their stock value + dividends + etc.

And let's not forget that most CEOs are not paid straight salary - it's usually a fair salary + huge bonus structure tied to performance + stocks.

[Urban Cowboy]

Yeah hence why they're getting paid millions in the first place.

Then again, I guess it's not as though the bonuses are coming out of the employers pockets.

They'll just cut a smaller cheque to the shareholders.

Shareholders = employers

And shareholders are happy to pay millions to a good CEO because it raises their stock value + dividends + etc.

And let's not forget that most CEOs are not paid straight salary - it's usually a fair salary + huge bonus structure tied to performance + stocks.

Uhuh and how many examples of where there's one major shareholder? Loblaws for example where Westons own 63%.

Do you think those lesser shareholders get much of a say?

I seem to recall they recorded their largest profit ever, but hey the cost of groceries skyrocketing is due to inflation, not greed on Westons part. After all Galen said so.

[Even Steven]

Do you think those lesser shareholders get much of a say?

People's say is proportioned to the percentage of the company they own.

I seem to recall they recorded their largest profit ever, but hey the cost of groceries skyrocketing is due to inflation, not greed on Weston's part.

Not sure what this has to do with CEO compensation

[Gone_Fishin]

Just think of the difference it would make if we weren't taxed so heavily.

If our gross pay was the same and our take home pay was 30, 40% higher due to fewer deductions, damn, we wouldn't be so far from easy street.

The same ones that dance joyously for tax and spend left wing governments are the same ones who scream for higher wages.

Almost like they work for the gubment, eh?

[Catsumi]

Just think of the difference it would make if we weren't taxed so heavily.

If our gross pay was the same and our take home pay was 30, 40% higher due to fewer deductions, damn, we wouldn't be so far from easy street.

The same ones that dance joyously for tax and spend left wing governments are the same ones who scream for higher wages.

Almost like they work for the gubment, eh?

Bingo!

[Nedroj]

If you are stuck working a minimum wage job due to only having a high school diploma then the answer to a better-paying career is to "go back to school" not demand to be paid more for doing basic work.

If you are stuck working a minimum wage job because you live in a small town without a lot of career opportunities then the best solution is to "move to a better city with more employment opportunities" not demand that employment opportunities come to you.

If you have an education and are stuck at a company that pays its employees a lower salary than its competitors, then the best solution is to "get a better job" if you have already asked for a raise and have been denied.

Guess what? I've done ALL THREE OF THESE. They are not shortsighted "platitudes". If fact what you are prescribing is a heightened sense of entitlement that seems to be plaguing our younger society.

I moved to Calgary because in 2001 there were hardly any jobs anywhere in the Okanagan Valley.
I went to SAIT and took night courses to get a raise at the engineering firm I started working at.
After I completed the night courses my employer only gave me a 1$ raise (total 8$/hr) so I quit and moved back to the Okanagan and got a job starting at 17$ in 2004 and have been here ever since.

Back when the 80's recession hit, my family had to move from our home in Armstrong to Dawson Creek because my dad lost his job and needed to find a new one. So we moved to where there was work. This was very normal and when we could afford to move back to the Okanagan and secure employment, we did.

This is called communism or also known as just plain theft, you decide but either way, it is immoral to take away from others that which they worked hard to earn.

CEO's work 50-80 hours a week to get to that position. If they are good at running their company they will make a profit and he/she deserves a high salary for that success. If they are not good at their jobs they go broke, the company is dissolved and everyone loses their jobs.

The economy you grew up in doesn't exist anymore.

How so?

If I lost my job right now, I'd seriously consider moving to a different city to secure better employment. Why is moving not possible in "today's economy"?

Why is going back to school to further your education not possible in "today's economy"?

What I am hearing is a poor excuse due to a poor work ethic and/or overall laziness. There is nothing stopping anyone from packing up and moving to a different city, province, or even country if it puts them ahead in life.

[countmeout]

The economy you grew up in doesn't exist anymore.

The reality you think you live in doesn't exist...

[69cutlass]

The economy you grew up in doesn't exist anymore.

The reality you think you live in doesn't exist...