Strict Gun Laws

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mtnman1
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by mtnman1 »

EsJay wrote:
mtnman1 wrote:
theartsyfartsy wrote:Other people are right, things like the gun registry will not get rid of crime, because criminals will not register their weapons...why would they?
What would make more sense would be to ban the sale of handguns, and have limited sale of hunting weapons within urban areas - nobody has yet been able to explain why one needs any sort of gun in Vancouver.
Maybe we don't need stricter gun laws, just ones that are applied with a little more common sense.
We definately don't need US style gun laws,

As for banning handguns, we are still able to buy them in the States and have them shipped up here. Responsible gun owners are not the problem.


You need a handgun license and transport permit to even think about getting a handgun shipped to you in Canada, unless you want the RCMP to deliver it. Getting a permit is very, very difficult.

Being that handguns are only used to kill humans, I dont see how any "responsible" person would want a handgun. Sure there are collectors (dads friend collects WWII guns etc) and sure there is some appeal I suppose, getting a German Ruger or something like that.

Think of the worst moments of your life. The time your wife/husband left you for that rich peice, the time that guy rear ended you in traffic, the time you had too much to drink and got lippy with some guy who looked at you thw wrong way, the time you were so despressed and thinking about suicide and the time you were being bullied and picked on.

Now, just imagine if you had a HANDGUN close at hand when any of those things happened. That is the reason the USA is one of the most violent places on earth. Everyone is armed and think they are in their rights to shoot people for whatever reason they feel is justified at the time. The handgun, the end all of problem solvers.



It's really not that difficult to have a handgun shipped to Canada. It is time consuming and there are a few hoops to jump through but it is not terribly difficult. Handguns have other uses other than killing humans. There is target shooting and a short barrelled gun is easier to carry when prospecting. Take the handguns from the legal and responsible owners and all that is left is the criminals with guns. Still doesn't solve the problem of bad guys with guns that are brought into this country illegally. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
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Bagotricks
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by Bagotricks »

mtnman1 wrote:
EsJay wrote:
mtnman1 wrote:
theartsyfartsy wrote:Other people are right, things like the gun registry will not get rid of crime, because criminals will not register their weapons...why would they?
What would make more sense would be to ban the sale of handguns, and have limited sale of hunting weapons within urban areas - nobody has yet been able to explain why one needs any sort of gun in Vancouver.
Maybe we don't need stricter gun laws, just ones that are applied with a little more common sense.
We definately don't need US style gun laws,

As for banning handguns, we are still able to buy them in the States and have them shipped up here. Responsible gun owners are not the problem.


You need a handgun license and transport permit to even think about getting a handgun shipped to you in Canada, unless you want the RCMP to deliver it. Getting a permit is very, very difficult.

Being that handguns are only used to kill humans, I dont see how any "responsible" person would want a handgun. Sure there are collectors (dads friend collects WWII guns etc) and sure there is some appeal I suppose, getting a German Ruger or something like that.

Think of the worst moments of your life. The time your wife/husband left you for that rich peice, the time that guy rear ended you in traffic, the time you had too much to drink and got lippy with some guy who looked at you thw wrong way, the time you were so despressed and thinking about suicide and the time you were being bullied and picked on.

Now, just imagine if you had a HANDGUN close at hand when any of those things happened. That is the reason the USA is one of the most violent places on earth. Everyone is armed and think they are in their rights to shoot people for whatever reason they feel is justified at the time. The handgun, the end all of problem solvers.



Handguns have other uses other than killing humans. There is target shooting and a short barrelled gun is easier to carry when prospecting. Take the handguns from the legal and responsible owners and all that is left is the criminals with guns. Still doesn't solve the problem of bad guys with guns that are brought into this country illegally. Guns don't kill people, people kill people.


My father used to be a geologist, or prospector. I got a laugh from your comment. Sure short barrelled guns are easier to carry, but what handgun is going to stop a charging bear? - which is the only reason why you would be bringing a gun for "saftey" in the woods. Most prospectors bring their hunting rifles for that reason alone, the stoping power... and if they see a deer or some other game and have a ticket - dinner. Your not going to shoot a deer at 100 yards with a handgun.

So handguns were designed to shoot paper targets, not for close hand to hand combat with other humans? If I was going to design a gun for marksmenship, the barrell would be a tad longer than 8 inches. Handguns are not very accurate.

Handgun for target practice - no
Handgun for hunting - no
Handgun for killing humans - yes
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mtnman1
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by mtnman1 »

Well that would depend upon how well practiced you are. Guns for prospectors, yes. You can't always take your rifle to the creek and have it within easy reach and yes, there are handguns capable of stopping a bear, if not it would sure give him a second thought. There are also different kinds of target practice that does not involve stationary paper targets. There are speed shooting events and silouette targets. There is no good reason for criminals, focus your efforts on the real problem.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

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mtnman1 wrote:Well that would depend upon how well practiced you are. Guns for prospectors, yes. You can't always take your rifle to the creek and have it within easy reach and yes, there are handguns capable of stopping a bear, if not it would sure give him a second thought. There are also different kinds of target practice that does not involve stationary paper targets. There are speed shooting events and silouette targets. There is no good reason for criminals, focus your efforts on the real problem.


Ok now your reallly stretching. Sure there are handguns out ther that can stop a bear, but the hand canon that you would need to stop a bear from charging you down I dont believe is availible legally in Canada.

Its just not practical. Your alone in the woods. Your protecting yourself from the one situation that could be, which is : a bear/cougar charging you. Most handguns are not accurate and do not have the power you would need to stop a bear. So the prospector makes a choice when he leaves the house. Do I want to carry a handgun just because "I can" or do I want to take the proper tool along with me because of the posibility of my life being in danger. Rifles have carrying slings that can go over your back, they are accurate and WILL stop a bear.

If your going to dig a hole, you can bring a stick or a shovel and either one will get the job done. If your life depends on that hole being dug then your going to take the shovel Im guessing.

Handguns also make good doorstops and paperweights, but my point was that handguns serve no use *primarily* other than shooting other people. Besides a paperweight, doorstop, or "target" gun...they are used to kill people. Justify it all you want, but handguns have no place in society.

I commented about handguns, because the thread topic is strict gun laws, which I <3. The less guns the better.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by mtnman1 »

Well you are certianly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Anything that you might have to say on the subject will in no way change my mind or stop me from carrying my weapon. A long gun is good for shooting and killing a bear or cougar at a distance, doesn't do you any good if it is on top of you chewing on your leg. If a bear or cougar is that far away, they are much less of a risk and will likely turn away from a human.
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Amarow121
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by Amarow121 »

JayByrd wrote:I'm not advocating taking guns away from anyone, but I am dubious of their value in self-defense. Maybe that sounds ridiculous...if so, educate me!

But I'd be interested to know if owning a gun really does make you safer. How often do you hear of someone (besides police/military) successfully using a gun to defend themselves from an attacker? I'm not saying it never happens, but I'd be interested to see some statistics. I tend to see the "gun in every home" crowd as having almost a Death Wish (the movie) mentality...this feeling that the bad guys are lurking around every corner, just waiting for you to let your guard down.

And where can a civilian get the kind of training they'd need to really use a firearm in close-quarters combat? Knowing how to operate a gun and shoot targets is nice, but when the situation arises when you need to defend yourself, is that really going to help? What are the odds of someone who owns a gun for self defense, but is not actually a firearms afficionado, getting any use out of it?



This is a website I really enjoy, it has many many stories of people using firearms to defend their homes, persons, families.
http://www.claytoncramer.com/gundefenseblog/labels/home%20invasion.html

I'm okay with the rig-ma-roll one has to go through to get a handgun, but I would like to see carry permits. Only once in my life have I ever wished I had a carry permit, but boy was I wishing hard!
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by mountainair »

I have shot a charging bear with a .45acp handgun - two shots stopped it dead in it's tracks. Handgun ammo has come a long way these days and the shockload is comparable to a lot of smaller rifle cartridges.

A lot of high power rifle cartridges are actually too powerful and if you are not selecting your cartridge right, it can actually pass right through the bear without transferring any energy into the bear itself, which means you have to be accurate. Being accurate in an emergency situation is extremely difficult.

Having worked in the bush for 20 years I can attest to how impractical carrying a rifle is for self-defense. You need to able to draw and acquire the target quickly and get your rounds out fast. I dont know how many people on here have actually carried a rifle and tried to "draw" it and get a round off fast and accurately, but it is hard. Target acquisition take a lot of practice and you need to be good at it in order to justify carrying a handgun in the woods.

The other option is a shotgun, which is probably more practical but, again with time issues, I feel a handgun is best.

But, I do not think carrying a rifle/shotgun is a good idea. Grizz can charge over 25m/second. By the time you realize the bear is charging, bring the gun to your shoulder, chamber a round, acquire the target and get a round off, I think you will be out of time.

The best defense against animals? Your brain. Make lots of noise when you walk, listen to the forest, do not approach streams downwind, look for sign, camp 30m from your food, keep your food in a separate bag in your pack, etc. And only IF you are well trained, have practiced, and IF you head into areas of high bear density on a regular basis, get a glock .45 and apply for the bush permit. 200 conservation officers cant be wrong.

Just my thoughts.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by mtnman1 »

Bear attacks two sleeping B.C. men
Last Updated: Friday, October 16, 2009 | 8:07 PM PT Comments84Recommend35CBC News
Jeff Hebert, left, and Ken Scown were attacked by a grizzly bear while camping in B.C.'s East Kootenay region Wednesday morning. (CBC)
Two Nelson, B.C., men are recovering from wounds suffered in a grizzly bear attack earlier this week.

Jeff Hebert and Ken Scown were on a hunting trip in the near Canal Flats in the East Kootenay region, about 300 kilometres southwest of Calgary, when they say a grizzly attacked them early Wednesday morning as they slept in their tent.

The animal — estimated to be two metres tall — jumped onto the tent, landing on Scown, while Hebert struggled to load his rifle in the dark.

"Right off the bat, [the bear] pinned me and bit me in the right leg, and she got me in the arm," said Scown.

Hebert shows a forearm wound where he was bitten by the grizzly. (CBC)
Hebert said he was trying to push the bear off Scown while Hebert was struggling to get a round into the rifle.

Hebert said they were, "being tossed in the tent like we were in the rodeo. "

"I closed the bolt on the gun, thinking I have a bullet in and pushed the bear up because I didn't want to shoot my friend," Hebert said.

Hebert thought he had a clear shot and squeezed the trigger, but only heard a "click." He had not pushed the bullet all the way into position in the gun.

The men placed a cigarette lighter into a paw print to provide some scale as to the animal's size. (CBC)
"I just put gun to the side, trying to push the bear off [and] Ken is telling me, 'shoot the bear, shoot the bear!'" Hebert said.

The bear tore through the tent, gouging both men before Hebert managed to get free and chase it away.

"I kind of always wondered what it felt like to be bit," Scown said. "Luckily, it didn't get a full upper and lower jaw-bite on me, but it didn't feel as bad as I thought it was going to feel.

"I didn't know it was bleeding until I got out [of the tent] and felt it running down my hand and dripping all over the snow," said Scown.

They were treated in hospital for wounds to their forearms and released. Scown also had a bite on his leg. The injuries were not serious.

The men said that once they cleaned up and hiked back to their truck, they could see bear tracks that indicated the animal had been following them the previous day.

The men show a rip in their tent caused by the grizzly. (CBC)
"I firmly believe she was hunting us," said Scown.

Hebert says the attack also dispelled a hunter's myth for him.

"Once you go to sleep in your tent … it's not going to see your tent as a threat," Hebert said. "But that's not the case anymore."



If they had pistols, they might have had a better chance.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by skydawg »

mtnman1 wrote:
Bear attacks two sleeping B.C. men
Last Updated: Friday, October 16, 2009 | 8:07 PM PT Comments84Recommend35CBC News
Jeff Hebert, left, and Ken Scown were attacked by a grizzly bear while camping in B.C.'s East Kootenay region Wednesday morning. (CBC)
Two Nelson, B.C., men are recovering from wounds suffered in a grizzly bear attack earlier this week.

Jeff Hebert and Ken Scown were on a hunting trip in the near Canal Flats in the East Kootenay region, about 300 kilometres southwest of Calgary, when they say a grizzly attacked them early Wednesday morning as they slept in their tent.

The animal — estimated to be two metres tall — jumped onto the tent, landing on Scown, while Hebert struggled to load his rifle in the dark.

"Right off the bat, [the bear] pinned me and bit me in the right leg, and she got me in the arm," said Scown.

Hebert shows a forearm wound where he was bitten by the grizzly. (CBC)
Hebert said he was trying to push the bear off Scown while Hebert was struggling to get a round into the rifle.

Hebert said they were, "being tossed in the tent like we were in the rodeo. "

"I closed the bolt on the gun, thinking I have a bullet in and pushed the bear up because I didn't want to shoot my friend," Hebert said.

Hebert thought he had a clear shot and squeezed the trigger, but only heard a "click." He had not pushed the bullet all the way into position in the gun.

The men placed a cigarette lighter into a paw print to provide some scale as to the animal's size. (CBC)
"I just put gun to the side, trying to push the bear off [and] Ken is telling me, 'shoot the bear, shoot the bear!'" Hebert said.

The bear tore through the tent, gouging both men before Hebert managed to get free and chase it away.

"I kind of always wondered what it felt like to be bit," Scown said. "Luckily, it didn't get a full upper and lower jaw-bite on me, but it didn't feel as bad as I thought it was going to feel.

"I didn't know it was bleeding until I got out [of the tent] and felt it running down my hand and dripping all over the snow," said Scown.

They were treated in hospital for wounds to their forearms and released. Scown also had a bite on his leg. The injuries were not serious.

The men said that once they cleaned up and hiked back to their truck, they could see bear tracks that indicated the animal had been following them the previous day.

The men show a rip in their tent caused by the grizzly. (CBC)
"I firmly believe she was hunting us," said Scown.

Hebert says the attack also dispelled a hunter's myth for him.

"Once you go to sleep in your tent … it's not going to see your tent as a threat," Hebert said. "But that's not the case anymore."



If they had pistols, they might have had a better chance.


Ya nice and easy to get a shot off but also a little risky in the dark in a tent. Bear spray may have wroked in this incident to, may have had to sniff a bit themselves but beign that close to the bear it should deter the taste of flesh.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by damngrumpy »

First let me say, Harper's lying could help the environment, if we hooked up electrical power to his
lips, whenever they moved, he could power a ceiling fan. This administration lies and misrepresents the truth on a daily basis. As for guns, their is an opinion from every person who talks about this issue. I don't think we need hand guns for everyday use. Canada is not a nation
that believes as a whole, that we should pack hand guns around in the street. I believe they could
be used for defence in the bush, and for shooting competitions and they should be registered and
controlled. Rifles etc, should also be registered. Machine guns they should be illegal, no one hunts
squirrels with a machine gun.
Now lets examine registration. Rather than spend billions and ongoing billion preoccupied with guns and registration we could make it simple and cost effective. All across this country we have
rod and gun clubs. We could contract with those organizations to give safety courses and keep records. It would be money for them and savings for all. Rod and gun clubs could work with the
police and the problem is solved. And just in case, some folks whine about privacy laws. Government can implement confidentiality agreements with the clubs that are bindings and
legally federally enforced. Doing it this way we could screen out the criminal element while allowing
ordinary citizens the privilege of owning a gun, In Canada its not a right to have such weapons
that's America folks. If we had clear distinctions, we could deliver harsh penalties to those committing crimes with weapons.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by dudlee »

Strict gun laws don't work on criminals , cus they don't give two Brown nuggets .Strict gun laws only work , when the gun manufacturers stop producing dangerous guns, OH and ammo.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by Rwede »

skydawg wrote:
mtnman1 wrote:
Bear attacks two sleeping B.C. men
Last Updated: Friday, October 16, 2009 | 8:07 PM PT Comments84Recommend35CBC News
Jeff Hebert, left, and Ken Scown were attacked by a grizzly bear while camping in B.C.'s East Kootenay region Wednesday morning. (CBC)
Two Nelson, B.C., men are recovering from wounds suffered in a grizzly bear attack earlier this week.

Jeff Hebert and Ken Scown were on a hunting trip in the near Canal Flats in the East Kootenay region, about 300 kilometres southwest of Calgary, when they say a grizzly attacked them early Wednesday morning as they slept in their tent.

The animal — estimated to be two metres tall — jumped onto the tent, landing on Scown, while Hebert struggled to load his rifle in the dark.

"Right off the bat, [the bear] pinned me and bit me in the right leg, and she got me in the arm," said Scown.

Hebert shows a forearm wound where he was bitten by the grizzly. (CBC)
Hebert said he was trying to push the bear off Scown while Hebert was struggling to get a round into the rifle.

Hebert said they were, "being tossed in the tent like we were in the rodeo. "

"I closed the bolt on the gun, thinking I have a bullet in and pushed the bear up because I didn't want to shoot my friend," Hebert said.

Hebert thought he had a clear shot and squeezed the trigger, but only heard a "click." He had not pushed the bullet all the way into position in the gun.

The men placed a cigarette lighter into a paw print to provide some scale as to the animal's size. (CBC)
"I just put gun to the side, trying to push the bear off [and] Ken is telling me, 'shoot the bear, shoot the bear!'" Hebert said.

The bear tore through the tent, gouging both men before Hebert managed to get free and chase it away.

"I kind of always wondered what it felt like to be bit," Scown said. "Luckily, it didn't get a full upper and lower jaw-bite on me, but it didn't feel as bad as I thought it was going to feel.

"I didn't know it was bleeding until I got out [of the tent] and felt it running down my hand and dripping all over the snow," said Scown.

They were treated in hospital for wounds to their forearms and released. Scown also had a bite on his leg. The injuries were not serious.

The men said that once they cleaned up and hiked back to their truck, they could see bear tracks that indicated the animal had been following them the previous day.

The men show a rip in their tent caused by the grizzly. (CBC)
"I firmly believe she was hunting us," said Scown.

Hebert says the attack also dispelled a hunter's myth for him.

"Once you go to sleep in your tent … it's not going to see your tent as a threat," Hebert said. "But that's not the case anymore."



If they had pistols, they might have had a better chance.


Ya nice and easy to get a shot off but also a little risky in the dark in a tent. Bear spray may have wroked in this incident to, may have had to sniff a bit themselves but beign that close to the bear it should deter the taste of flesh.


When you're still in your tent, and a bear is biting you through it, it's NOT a very good idea to let a blast of bear spray off! :137:
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by skydawg »

RichardWede wrote:
skydawg wrote:
mtnman1 wrote:
Bear attacks two sleeping B.C. men
Last Updated: Friday, October 16, 2009 | 8:07 PM PT Comments84Recommend35CBC News
Jeff Hebert, left, and Ken Scown were attacked by a grizzly bear while camping in B.C.'s East Kootenay region Wednesday morning. (CBC)
Two Nelson, B.C., men are recovering from wounds suffered in a grizzly bear attack earlier this week.

Jeff Hebert and Ken Scown were on a hunting trip in the near Canal Flats in the East Kootenay region, about 300 kilometres southwest of Calgary, when they say a grizzly attacked them early Wednesday morning as they slept in their tent.

The animal — estimated to be two metres tall — jumped onto the tent, landing on Scown, while Hebert struggled to load his rifle in the dark.

"Right off the bat, [the bear] pinned me and bit me in the right leg, and she got me in the arm," said Scown.

Hebert shows a forearm wound where he was bitten by the grizzly. (CBC)
Hebert said he was trying to push the bear off Scown while Hebert was struggling to get a round into the rifle.

Hebert said they were, "being tossed in the tent like we were in the rodeo. "

"I closed the bolt on the gun, thinking I have a bullet in and pushed the bear up because I didn't want to shoot my friend," Hebert said.

Hebert thought he had a clear shot and squeezed the trigger, but only heard a "click." He had not pushed the bullet all the way into position in the gun.

The men placed a cigarette lighter into a paw print to provide some scale as to the animal's size. (CBC)
"I just put gun to the side, trying to push the bear off [and] Ken is telling me, 'shoot the bear, shoot the bear!'" Hebert said.

The bear tore through the tent, gouging both men before Hebert managed to get free and chase it away.

"I kind of always wondered what it felt like to be bit," Scown said. "Luckily, it didn't get a full upper and lower jaw-bite on me, but it didn't feel as bad as I thought it was going to feel.

"I didn't know it was bleeding until I got out [of the tent] and felt it running down my hand and dripping all over the snow," said Scown.

They were treated in hospital for wounds to their forearms and released. Scown also had a bite on his leg. The injuries were not serious.

The men said that once they cleaned up and hiked back to their truck, they could see bear tracks that indicated the animal had been following them the previous day.

The men show a rip in their tent caused by the grizzly. (CBC)
"I firmly believe she was hunting us," said Scown.

Hebert says the attack also dispelled a hunter's myth for him.

"Once you go to sleep in your tent … it's not going to see your tent as a threat," Hebert said. "But that's not the case anymore."



If they had pistols, they might have had a better chance.


Ya nice and easy to get a shot off but also a little risky in the dark in a tent. Bear spray may have wroked in this incident to, may have had to sniff a bit themselves but beign that close to the bear it should deter the taste of flesh.


When you're still in your tent, and a bear is biting you through it, it's NOT a very good idea to let a blast of bear spray off! :137:


Yup I knew eventually someone would say that wouldnt be a good idea. The bear was through the tent and being face to face it may have helped.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by Glacier »

A start in the right direction...
Yukon MP backs bill to repeal long-gun registry

It sounds like there will be enough votes to get rid of this bad registry once and for all or until another Allen Rock comes around.
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Re: Strict Gun Laws

Post by westsidebud »

when me and my grampa went goldpanning, we alway brought a shotgun loaded with ssg slugs.couple blasts from that will stop any bear.but the trick is to not have to fire a shot.you must know the signs if a bear is near by.anyhow my opinion on hand guns is they only for target practice and i dnt want canada to be like the states where anyone can get and carry concealed handguns.fawk dat
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