Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

WhatThe

Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by WhatThe »

Lady tehMa wrote:Personal freedom is the battlestandard of the "me" generation. As in "I should be allowed to do what I want when I want and you should not interfere."

I believe in personal freedom, it is what the people who settled Canada came looking for. The difference here is that they had personal responsibility. The reason these personal "freedoms" are being eroded is that society is collectively becoming about the individual, and not the greater good. The person who wants to drink, does so. The person who wants to drive while drunk, does so. And does not think about the devastation they could cause. "I'm good" is the refrain of impaired judgment.

I would rather that everyone was responsible, but they aren't. Less and less people are choosing to be responsible. That is why these things (which should be simple common sense) are being legislated, or considered for legislation.

I think you are confusing or lumping together. It's not at all about me me I can do what I want. It's wanting to live without unreasonable interference from the govt and not be treated like a criminal. That has been the battle cry for 7000 years. Conversely it is recent generations that have lost that true meaning and are willing to give up what little freedom we have left because they just don't know any better anymore.
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kgcayenne
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by kgcayenne »

Will one of you “My Rights, My Freedoms” Please tell me where the rights and freedoms were for my biological father as he was violently murdered by a stupid drunk hitting him head on with heat so intense that both vehicles were welded together.

Tell me please where the rights and freedoms were of my cousin’s best friend as he was murdered by my cousin’s alcohol-induced ineptitude behind the wheel. Where were the rights and freedoms of the victim’s family? Where were the rights and freedoms of my cousin’s wife and kids whose lives have been permanently altered?

I’ll tell you where they were: My biological father’s rights and freedoms were held in the hands of the drunk at the wheel who murdered him. My murderous cousin had the rights and freedoms of his victim and all the people he hurt in his hands as he drove that night.

I am with Lady tehMah here. Rights and freedoms have become a me-me-mine-mine endeavor, and that’s just backwards. Rights and freedoms are what we as individuals ought to grant each other, not seize and take for ourselves at every opportunity.

We suck at granting rights and freedoms to each other, and government legislation is the price for it. I place the blame squarely upon the ‘Me Me Mine Mine’ group.
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WhatThe

Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by WhatThe »

Sorry for your loss. I have never spoken of just me but as a collective meaning. Noones freedoms are safe unless everyones freedoms are safe. Your families rights and freedoms were never abrogated by the govt, this is my standpoint.
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Merry
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Merry »

Although I don't condone impaired driving, I do think random breathalyer checks may be the begining of a slippery slope. My feeling was reinforced when I asked a friend (who owns a business) for his opinion, and his response was "oh good, this may open the door to allowing random drug tests in the work place" (apparantly pot smoking at work is rampant these days in some workplaces). Which then got me thinking what else it "may open the door to"? What about random body searches in stores, after all shoplifting is rampant these days. And maybe librarians should have the right to do random checks of peoples bags, just to make sure they're not leaving with any stolen books. And the list goes on. I realize these last two are not life threatening, but the point is that once society becomes used to the idea of random seaches to prevent life threatening crime, what's to stop their use being extended to other types of crime? As a previous poster pointed out, would it become acceptable to perform random searches of peoples homes to make sure there isn't any form of child abuse, or elder abuse, going on? Or how about random searches looking for unregistered guns? The list of possibilities goes on and on.
Based on what I heard on the news, this particular piece of legislation is pretty much a done deal, but I fear for the future legislation it may be a precursor to. Although the people who proposed this bill were well meaning, the end does not always justify the means.
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Lady tehMa
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Lady tehMa »

So what would you do to stem the pandemic "me" centric mindset that is infecting society? How do we abrogate the damage done by those people who don't think it is dangerous to drink and drive?

People don't care about the collective good anymore, it is all about "me". How do you propose we fix this? Until we can find a way to inject common sense into people, this is the only way to mitigate the current situation (so far). If you have any other solutions, please do share.
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Mutha »

And in general, I would say that Canada is becoming a more dangerous place, partly because the powers of the police and the courts are being steadily eroded. Sentences are a joke, criminals get free on technicalities, or the courts don't bother to prosecute because of stupid little loopholes. I'm not afraid of police at all. I'm afraid of the judges, people in the BC Civil Liberties Association, and the law makers who have made Canada a wonderful place for criminals to do business.
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Lady tehMa
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Lady tehMa »

MisterPeePee wrote:And in general, I would say that Canada is becoming a more dangerous place, partly because the powers of the police and the courts are being steadily eroded. Sentences are a joke, criminals get free on technicalities, or the courts don't bother to prosecute because of stupid little loopholes. I'm not afraid of police at all. I'm afraid of the judges, people in the BC Civil Liberties Association, and the law makers who have made Canada a wonderful place for criminals to do business.


THIS.

Truth be told, the average Canadian seems to have less rights than the criminals.
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Nebula
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Nebula »

I do not agree at all with random breathalyzers. I do believe it is a slippery slope and not one to be taken lightly. That sentiment is not about me, me, me, it is about people's fundamental right to quiet enjoyment of their life without interference from authorities who have no reason whatsoever to subject individuals to random testing in case they are doing something wrong.

If you think random breathalyzers are perfectly fine, would you advocate that police be allowed to pull you over randomly in order to search your car for evidence of illegal activity or controlled substances? Would you allow police to randomly search your home for drugs, illegal guns, young girls tied up in the basement as sex slaves or illegal distillery equipment? Would you be okay with authorities conducting random searches of your computer because you might have something illegal on it?
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Lady tehMa
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Lady tehMa »

I would agree with you Nebula, but there are predators masquerading as part of our society. Predators and entitlement-twits who believe they are a law unto themselves. This dangerous segment of the population is growing, and little holds them in check. I am in favour of that which will.

It will probably be inconvenient, but I have no fear of authorities because I have done no wrong. This is a band-aid solution, because it does not address how we have gotten here. Do you have any ideas on how to address the root problems?
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Veovis »

kccayenne - with what sounds like understandable, yet pent up and dwelling anger due to tragedies in your life, I feel you may someday finally lose your temper and kill a number of innocent people in your rage. Due to this issue, we are hereby putting you into prison for the next 20 years as to protect society from this potential threat.

Now, should that truely be allowed? An exageration surely, today.

No one here has condoned drinking and driving, what people have been mentoning as a concern is where "guilt without suspicion" being legally allowed will actually end.

Here's what I may see happening in a court room. "No your honor, I did not see the plantiff use any banned substances, no I did not see him act erratically, no sir, he was driving fine, no I did not have any warrents out for me to stop or detain him, let alone search his vehical and all it's occupants. Why? Well, he might have had drugs though, no no, he didn't but next time they might. Thank you for dismissing this case your honor, I know I only did good by this innocent citizen"

Drugs are seen as far more evil, than alcohol, why not immediately extend this law to drugs as well. No suspicion, simply officers will form a road bloack and search every vehicle that passes plus the individuals(inside and out) for any illicit drugs. Many people here have never even thought of doing drugs, would you like to be searched regularily anyways....just in case?


Yes, perhaps more people will be caught through this concept, what what percentage increase in people caught are they looking for? How much makes it acceptable?

If 90% of DUI offenders ceased the beghaviour is there a value for the intrusion? Well, quite likely at athat rate, but what if this only nets a 1% decrease in offenders? Then there is horrid value.


I have a magic rock, it keeps polar bears away. I keep it in Mexico, and it has never failed to keep a polar bear away from me while I'm down there. Does my rock really have any value? No, and nore do many laws that are simply magical rocks. They may sound nice, they may have a BS stat like my rock to back them up, but it doesn't make them good, or a good idea.
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Lady tehMa
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Lady tehMa »

So then, Veovis, provide an alternative solution.
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Nebula
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by Nebula »

Lady tehMa, with all due respect, this thread is not about alternate solutions. This thread is about random breathalyzer tests, which some people have commented on. One does not have to have a better solution to a problem to disagree with one proposed solution.
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WhatThe

Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by WhatThe »

Lady tehMa wrote:So what would you do to stem the pandemic "me" centric mindset that is infecting society? How do we abrogate the damage done by those people who don't think it is dangerous to drink and drive?

People don't care about the collective good anymore, it is all about "me". How do you propose we fix this? Until we can find a way to inject common sense into people, this is the only way to mitigate the current situation (so far). If you have any other solutions, please do share.


Where does this idea come from? History is chock full of subjugation and oppression and when we sort of get it right(our charter) people are entitled twits ? This makes absolutely no sense to me, if anything we are going the opposite direction than suggested. Very very little has changed in the last 7000 years society wise, very little. We have made strides in organization but we are still human, and susceptible to our failings, that is the root cause and circumventing rights will not change that.
WhatThe

Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by WhatThe »

MisterPeePee wrote:And in general, I would say that Canada is becoming a more dangerous place, partly because the powers of the police and the courts are being steadily eroded. Sentences are a joke, criminals get free on technicalities, or the courts don't bother to prosecute because of stupid little loopholes. I'm not afraid of police at all. I'm afraid of the judges, people in the BC Civil Liberties Association, and the law makers who have made Canada a wonderful place for criminals to do business.

Man I gotta be honest, you just don't understand the basic principles of our justice system do you. Clearly civil rights either.
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Re: Random breathalyzer tests considered for Canada

Post by JLives »

Count me out of a society where we investigate our law abiding citizens "just in case". I lost my father at 6 years old to a drunk driver too, it was him. I do not accept drunk driving but I also do not accept removing freedoms and liberties from innocent people because of it. This is simply not an acceptable solution.
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