Toronto should be a new Province?

NAB
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Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by NAB »

Interesting concept. Perhaps worth considering the comment ..

"we're never going to change this as long as we have a Toronto-driven government running Ontario."

...Makes me think that similar could be said as..

"we're never going to change this as long as we have a Toronto-driven government running Canada."

...as would likely be the case if Ignatieff and Layton had their way ;-) May a PM sensitive to the west as well as the east live long in office and prosper!

Nab

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TORONTO — A Conservative member of the Ontario legislature says Toronto should form its own province because communities outside the metropolis are not being heard.

Bill Murdoch, who represents the riding of Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, says the idea came to him at an agriculture meeting where recurring complaints brought him to the conclusion "we're never going to change this as long as we have a Toronto-driven government running Ontario."

The "straw that broke the camel's back" is the current spread of coyotes in his parts of the province, he said, a matter locals would like to settle by placing a bounty on them.

"They'll never let you do that in Toronto," he said.

He says the sheer size of the city — and its voting power — means Queen's Park is more likely to cater to Toronto's every whim.

Murdoch admits the goal has little to no chance of success, but says the suggestion would at least launch a debate.

http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/ ... story.html
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steven lloyd
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by steven lloyd »

NAB wrote: TORONTO — A Conservative member of the Ontario legislature says Toronto should form its own province because communities outside the metropolis are not being heard.

My first thought is to wonder just how different this is from Vancouver and the lower mainland, certain select Liberal ridings and the rest of BC.
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by NAB »

steven lloyd wrote:
NAB wrote: TORONTO — A Conservative member of the Ontario legislature says Toronto should form its own province because communities outside the metropolis are not being heard.

My first thought is to wonder just how different this is from Vancouver and the lower mainland, certain select Liberal ridings and the rest of BC.


Ya know it Steven! Montreal and Quebec? Winnipeg and Manitoba? ....similar situations?

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steven lloyd
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by steven lloyd »

NAB wrote: Ya know it Steven! Montreal and Quebec? Winnipeg and Manitoba? ....similar situations? Nab

Maybe Montreal and Quebec. I don't know about Winnipeg and Manitoba, or Regina, Saskatoon and Saskatchewan. I was born and raised in Alberta and never had that sense about Calgary and Edmonton. I just wonder how similar this situataion is across Canada.
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by NAB »

steven lloyd wrote:
NAB wrote: Ya know it Steven! Montreal and Quebec? Winnipeg and Manitoba? ....similar situations? Nab

Maybe Montreal and Quebec. I don't know about Winnipeg and Manitoba, or Regina, Saskatoon and Saskatchewan. I was born and raised in Alberta and never had that sense about Calgary and Edmonton. I just wonder how similar this situataion is across Canada.


Ya, I don't have that sense about Saskachewan, nor any of the cities in the Merrytimes. Winnipeg may be iffy, and Alberta is very balanced province wide IMO...

...but I would certainly put the lower mainland of BC under the same umbrella vs vs the rest of BC as Toronto is to Ontario. Similar thinking in both provincial governments?

Nab
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by Liberty and Truth »

Toronto is going to form it's own province because it may oppose a fee paid to incentivize people to shoot coyotes? Talk about Mutiny because of the Bounty! :)

The rest of Canada should definitely oppose this move. With all the liberal nutjobs in Toronto like Jack Layton you can bet within a year that "province" would be sucking down more transfer payments than Quebec and the Maritimes combined.

To solve the coyote problem Ontario should just hire this guy:

Image
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by NAB »

If so inclined, simply subsitute "The Vancouver Region" and "BC" (and Gordo) appropriately in the following article. Although I would merge the rest of BC with Alberta in preference to creating yet another province. We need less provinces, not more IMO.

Nab

Don Martin weighs in...


""It’s a national pastime with a new twist. Even Ontario is trash-talking Toronto now, debating the merit of forcing Canada’s universal centre to become a standalone province.

This would come as a surprise to some Torontonians, who believe they already define the country itself. The notion of being just the 11th province might be seen as a demotion.

It would also come as a jolt to national unity if we lost Toronto as the country’s favourite punching bag. New Democrat Leader Jack Layton (of Toronto) once correctly described picking on the Greater Toronto Area as “the national gravitational force keeping our country together.”

But a private member’s bill to create the Province of Toronto, an idea that was proposed by maverick Conservative MPP Bill Murdoch this week, has engaged water cooler conversation with nary a discouraging word being raised against the concept.

Just what Toronto has done to rate such nation-defining scorn is often perplexing and appears to be uniquely Canadian.

There seems to be little inclination by other countries to direct animosity or ridicule at their largest cities. England doesn’t seem to particularly loathe London. The rest of France doesn’t lambaste Paris. Italy doesn’t pick on Rome.

Yet here in Canada, it’s always open season on Toronto.

Where else would a national brewery launch a billboard campaign with ads promising to deliver beer that’s “colder than the people of Toronto”?

Another set of billboards that surfaced in nearby Hamilton put that view a bit more succinctly: “Toronto Sucks”.

There are Facebook pages and Wikipedia sites devoted to bashing the city and its hapless “Losers since ‘67” hockey team. The YouTube link on the NHL’s "Toronto Make Me Laughs" has received 160,000 hits; the Montreal "Habs Suck" site just 5,000 views. There was even a 75-minute movie called Let’s All Hate Toronto, where a city resident recorded the strange backlash from Canadians as he toured the country promoting a Toronto Appreciation Day.

This resentment is partly driven by hinterland envy.

Business in Canada still equals Bay Street, despite the rise of the West in economic influence.

Culture in this country is defined by any act that first surfaces in Toronto’s theatre district.

News becomes big very quickly when it impacts Toronto, less so elsewhere.

If nasty weather whacks the city, and lest we forget which city called in the military for shovel duty after one infamous blizzard, it’s breathlessly covered as national news.

But the most legitimate complaints come from the rest of Ontario, where rural areas complain of high taxes to support Toronto’s entitled but costly infrastructure. “Beating up on Toronto in ridings outside of Toronto is a vote-getter in Ontario,” confides one MP.

Secondary cities like Ottawa, Hamilton, Windsor, Sudbury and Thunder Bay support the partition idea because they increasingly see themselves as mere specks on a provincial radar ignored in the blinding glare of Toronto’s political desires.

The notion of creating a province out of a metropolitian region is not as difficult as it seems at first blush.

Expert opinion suggests it might not require a constitutional amendment. If there was agreement between the feds and the legislature to divide the province, presto, Canada’s first and second largest province could apparently be created overnight.

The good news is that Toronto, even though it seems to produce little more than corporate decision-making, appears fiscally sound as a "have" province that will not receive equalization payments.

After all, nowhere else could a mayor announce his city suddenly "found" another $100-million to boost the annual surplus to $350-million like David Miller did earlier this month.

So bring on the debate. If nothing else the topic will give Canadians a free pass to giggle at Toronto after its NHL hockey team (once again) fails to make the playoffs.""
Read more: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blog ... z0iUGNv8JZ
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by Woodenhead »

urban vs. rural

never ends :[
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by westsidebud »

the problem is letting a bunch of hunters go out and shoot them, it would be better publicly if it was wildlife officers doing the cull
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by c2c »

The population of Canada is around 33.3 million. More than 1/3 of Canada’s population lives in Ontario (12 million). Ontario has more than 2 ½ times BC’s population (4.4 million).

The greater Toronto area has a population (5.5 million - bigger than the province of BC) slightly less than ½ the population of Ontario.

The greater Vancouver area (2.2 million) has about ½ the population of BC.

In our federal democracy, because of the distribution of the Canadian population, Ontario trumps the other provinces and urban trumps rural. It is no wonder that we have western alienation and an urban / rural divide.

Political scientists have for a long time recognized Canada’s structural problem as one of our most challenging issues. I don’t know that I agree with making Toronto a province but hopefully, this proposal sparks a debate about Canada's structural problem.
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by Woodenhead »

Good post c2c

Perhaps the Golden Horseshoe should be their own country then: "With a population of 8.1 million people, it makes up slightly over a quarter (25.6%) of the population of Canada and contains approximately 75% of Ontario's population, making it one of the largest population concentrations in North America." heh

(I lived there previously - in the last bit of rural area. A lot of things happening in Kelowna remind me of similar things back there, in the recent past)
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by Liberty and Truth »

I still am lost as to why the people of Toronto get a say in whether some guys in rural Ontario can go and shoot some coyotes. It really is none of the business of the people in Toronto what the people in the rural regions are doing. It is kind of confusing why the Torontonians would even care - maybe this is why the leafs have gone 43 years without a cup.
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Re: Toronto should be a new Province?

Post by NAB »

From the numbers and graphs in the following article, it would appear that Saskatchewan and the Merrytimes have too much "say" in parliament, particularly P.E.I. who, by comparison, would warrant Vancouver Island becoming its own province. (Not that many of the overpaid chair warmers have much say anyway, thery just vote as told to by the bosses and cheer on command).

it appears for example that every vote in P.E.I. equals more than 3 votes in BC and Alberta, while in Newfoundland and Labrador and New Brunswick each vote equals almost one and a half BC citizens.

Not that I am suggesting I agree with the idea that more trough feeding MP's should be assigned to Ontario, Alberta,and BC., ...but rather that some should be taken away from provinces that are over represented in the house. Perhaps in the Senate also? LOL, I can envision Iggy's bouncing bushy eyebrows and Layton's bulging blood vessels already should it just so happen that regions facing a cut in number of MP's would naturally be those that feather long established Liberal or NDP nests. (We all know that the party who created this undemocratic situation was the Liberals of course, or at least failed to interfere with its evolution since it favoured that party's seat count)

Reminds me of the old days socialist/communist/union saying.... "everyone is equal, it's just that some are more equal than others."

Nab.
***************

Excerpts from:


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/pol ... le1508823/


The votes that Canadians cast in federal elections are more unequal than at any time in the country's history. The House of Commons is more unrepresentative than other federations in the developed world.

Not only is the current makeup of the House of Commons undemocratic, the report maintains, it has “the unintended effect of undermining the voting power and equality rights of minorities and newcomers to the country.”

In the Throne Speech, the Conservative government promised legislation to address the under-representation of Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta in the House of Commons. It can't come too soon.

“The situation as it now stands is seriously undermining the principle that all citizens should have an equal say in choosing their government,”

A founding principle of the Canadian Constitution is Representation by Population, or rep-by-pop, which holds that every citizen's vote should have equal weight.

But constitutional provisions and various promises and laws have skewed the House to the point where Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta are seriously under represented in the House of Commons. Quebec is appropriately represented, and all other provinces are overrepresented, some egregiously.

Comparing Canada to other first-world countries with a federal system of government reveals that Canada's House of Commons is less representative than the U.S. House of Representatives and of the comparable legislatures in Germany, Australia or Switzerland.

And the Mowat Centre's analysis revealed that the House is more unrepresentative now than at any other time since Confederation.
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