Jack Layton ... RIP

Jo
Slot 16
Posts: 22663
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Jo »

Mr. Personality wrote:What I've noticed since Layton's death is that pretty much anyone who respects and loves Canada also respected Layton, because he truly loved Canada.


People who do not hold in high esteem the grossly overstated emotional reactions to Layton's death by the masses also respect and love Canada and, in large part, had some reasonable amount of respect for Layton. I'm pretty far left-wing, and I liked what Layton achieved, I think he was a reasonably good politican. But would I light a candle in my living room window for him? No. Would I weep and wail in public for him? No. Would I write rabid comments here or elsewhere against anybody who isn't in deep mourning over his death? No. Far too many people jump to sanctify any public figure who dies.
Mr. Personality
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4284
Joined: Apr 12th, 2008, 7:54 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Mr. Personality »

Jo wrote:
Mr. Personality wrote:What I've noticed since Layton's death is that pretty much anyone who respects and loves Canada also respected Layton, because he truly loved Canada.


People who do not hold in high esteem the grossly overstated emotional reactions to Layton's death by the masses also respect and love Canada and, in large part, had some reasonable amount of respect for Layton. I'm pretty far left-wing, and I liked what Layton achieved, I think he was a reasonably good politican. But would I light a candle in my living room window for him? No. Would I weep and wail in public for him? No. Would I write rabid comments here or elsewhere against anybody who isn't in deep mourning over his death? No. Far too many people jump to sanctify any public figure who dies.

That's not what I'm talking about, please don't misunderstand me. I suppose if I had to put myself into the political spectrum, it's be centerist leaning left. With that said, I can't stand the NDP but at the same time, Layton was the only one in the last election I would have chosen as the PM.
I'm not lighting any candles or weeping, I'm also not saying anyone who doesn't didn't respect Layton. I'm saying the sentence I'm hearing most about this is, "I didn't like him or his party, but I respected him. He loved this country as much or more than anyone."
Jo
Slot 16
Posts: 22663
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Jo »

Mr. Personality wrote:I'm saying the sentence I'm hearing most about this is, "I didn't like him or his party, but I respected him. He loved this country as much or more than anyone."


Yes, I think this is true. I think it is the over-the-top reaction (the weeping and the wailing, the candles, the vicious stabs against anybody who disagrees) is what is getting to a lot of people.
Mr. Personality
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4284
Joined: Apr 12th, 2008, 7:54 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Mr. Personality »

Jo wrote:
Mr. Personality wrote:I'm saying the sentence I'm hearing most about this is, "I didn't like him or his party, but I respected him. He loved this country as much or more than anyone."


Yes, I think this is true. I think it is the over-the-top reaction (the weeping and the wailing, the candles, the vicious stabs against anybody who disagrees) is what is getting to a lot of people.

And they end up taking it out on the man himself, or at least, the memory thereof.
I really think he did deserve a state funeral. If others want to weep and gnash their teeth, what does it hurt you?

The people who seem to be speaking against it mostly seem to be conservative right-wing folk who are mad the NDP is getting screen time.

If Harper had passed away when he was leading the opposition, this exact conversation would be going on, but those against the state funeral would be for it and vice versa.
Jo
Slot 16
Posts: 22663
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Jo »

Most likely it would be the same, since it is the way things are done now. As for whether it hurts a person to have others weep and wail about it, it doesn't, of course. However, peopledo have a right to look on a societal trend and think it wrong, and to speak out about it.

I really don't think many are vilifying Layton as a reaction to the outpouring of 'grief', although clearly some will, and do.

*edited to add: But there would be no reasonable argument against a state funeral for Harper, as he is the prime minister.
User avatar
logicalview
Guru
Posts: 9792
Joined: Feb 6th, 2006, 3:59 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by logicalview »

Mr. Personality wrote:The people who seem to be speaking against it mostly seem to be conservative right-wing folk who are mad the NDP is getting screen time.


Maybe some, but others know that Jack (Olivia) are opportunists, they rode parasite. His grande finale, paid for by the taxpayers doesn't sit well with those who believe that he just wasn't that great, and the offering was designed more to placate his followers suffering from teddy bear syndrome.
Not afraid to say "It".
Mr. Personality
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4284
Joined: Apr 12th, 2008, 7:54 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Mr. Personality »

Jo wrote:*edited to add: But there would be no reasonable argument against a state funeral for Harper, as he is the prime minister.

Is there a reasonable argument against calling him "an eminent Canadian"? If not, who would qualify as an eminent Canadian?
Also, I did say "If Harper had passed away when he was leading the opposition". Regardless of which party it is, any seat-holding leader of the opposition party is deserving of a state funeral.

logicalview wrote:
Mr. Personality wrote:The people who seem to be speaking against it mostly seem to be conservative right-wing folk who are mad the NDP is getting screen time.


Maybe some, but others know that Jack (Olivia) are opportunists, they rode parasite. His grande finale, paid for by the taxpayers doesn't sit well with those who believe that he just wasn't that great, and the offering was designed more to placate his followers suffering from teddy bear syndrome.

I don't think Jack was that great a politician. I didn't agree with a lot of his ideas and, while he was the party leader who I honestly though was the best person of the bunch, the party he led is a complete joke.

I don't doubt Harper offered the funeral for that reason, and he might be right, but that doesn't say anything about Layton. It speaks to the NDP supporters as well as Harper himself. The reaction from those who don't think as highly of Layton speaks a lot about them. Not only are they contributing to the funeral becoming a sideshow, they're also (if they are right about the "opportunistic " couple) feeding the beast, so to speak. You have the right to voice your opinions and I won't ever say otherwise. I just wonder, if Jack (Olivia) is such an opportunistic attention-seeker, why keep giving him(her) attention?

Also, show me a politician who isn't opportunistic and I'll show you a politician who died 5 minutes ago.
RR24K
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3832
Joined: Sep 20th, 2008, 7:24 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by RR24K »

I really don't get whats the big deal so PM Harper made a choice to honour Jack Layton, just that simple. No different from Quebec giving Maurice Richard a Provincial state funeral in 2000.

They did not agree with each other on political issues, I do believe they did respected each other and out of that respect came this last act Stephen could do honour a fellow politician.
User avatar
Bestside
Guru
Posts: 5897
Joined: Apr 29th, 2007, 1:03 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Bestside »

Jo wrote:
Mr. Personality wrote:I'm saying the sentence I'm hearing most about this is, "I didn't like him or his party, but I respected him. He loved this country as much or more than anyone."


Yes, I think this is true. I think it is the over-the-top reaction (the weeping and the wailing, the candles, the vicious stabs against anybody who disagrees) is what is getting to a lot of people.

I never noticed over-the-top except perhaps CBC's Evan Solomon....

Of course a few girls shed tears when the goldfish dies...

Quite normal reactions except for some on blogs... nailing him to the cross ... but not in a good way :)
Actually no surprise there either...
"Conservatives have whipped themselves into spasms of outrage and despair that block all strategic thinking" - David Frum
User avatar
The Green Barbarian
Insanely Prolific
Posts: 65796
Joined: Sep 16th, 2010, 9:13 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by The Green Barbarian »

heymac wrote:I haven't seen or heard anything from Elizabeth May. Has anyone else heard or seen her?


No, but I was just thinking that I really don't care what she thinks about Jack Layton. Or pretty much anything else for that matter.
Justin Trudeau- racist, elitist, liar. What a sick piece of garbage.

"Mr. Trudeau, you are a disgrace to any democracy. Please spare us your presence" - European Union addressing the sad sack of **** that is currently our PM.
User avatar
Queen K
Queen of the Castle
Posts: 66596
Joined: Jan 31st, 2007, 11:39 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Queen K »

WTHWYT wrote:
logicalview wrote: Jack is looking up


I'm not sure if you know what dead means, he's not feeling, looking, smelling, tasting, hearing....... Okay.


Funny, but in some cultures it is believed that people's spirits stay around for a few days before going on into the next realm, whatever that may be.

And Logicalview, I believe that in western culture, if we believe he went up to heaven, then he's looking down. From "up" would imply the "other" place people go.
If Putin stopped, he'd be saving Russian lives as well.
User avatar
oneh2obabe
feistres Goruchaf y Bwrdd
Posts: 89038
Joined: Nov 23rd, 2007, 8:19 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by oneh2obabe »

Excerpt from article:

Addressing the media in Yellowknife earlier Thursday, Prime Minister Stephen Harper said he wasn’t surprised by the public tribute to Layton in the past few days.

“Part of the reason I declared this to be a state funeral was my belief that Mr. Layton is an important political figure — obviously very well known and liked, widely liked, by the Canadian people, including by people who did not vote for him,” he said. “That’s been my view all along.”

Harper cut short his trip to the North so he and his wife Laureen can be in Toronto for Layton’s funeral.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/arti ... rning?bn=1
Dance as if no one's watching, sing as if no one's listening, and live everyday as if it were your last.

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
User avatar
Rwede
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 11728
Joined: May 6th, 2009, 10:49 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Rwede »

The Green Barbarian wrote:
heymac wrote:I haven't seen or heard anything from Elizabeth May. Has anyone else heard or seen her?


No, but I was just thinking that I really don't care what she thinks about Jack Layton. Or pretty much anything else for that matter.



I expect her to condemn the greenhouse gases from the hearse for causing the deaths of 600 polar bears.
"I don't even disagree with the bulk of what's in the Leap Manifesto. I'll put forward my Leap Manifesto in the next election." - John Horgan, 2017.
Jo
Slot 16
Posts: 22663
Joined: Nov 27th, 2004, 12:33 pm

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Jo »

Back on topic.
Mr. Personality
Lord of the Board
Posts: 4284
Joined: Apr 12th, 2008, 7:54 am

Re: Jack Layton ... RIP

Post by Mr. Personality »

Queen K wrote:
WTHWYT wrote:
logicalview wrote: Jack is looking up


I'm not sure if you know what dead means, he's not feeling, looking, smelling, tasting, hearing....... Okay.


Funny, but in some cultures it is believed that people's spirits stay around for a few days before going on into the next realm, whatever that may be.

And Logicalview, I believe that in western culture, if we believe he went up to heaven, then he's looking down. From "up" would imply the "other" place people go.

I wouldn't bother.
Layton died for publicity, you know... :127:

Return to “Canada”