Sask. Bus Accident

Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby swanterky » Apr 17th, 2018, 9:13 am

sask_bus_crash.jpg
One of the parents, whose name I forget, said that he was there quite shortly after the accident, and that the sun was still high in the sky, so could not have been an issue. I don't think that the driver of the bus had much time to turn, the violence of the impact with the truck just spun it around in an instant, throwing many of the riders out into the snow. It makes me wonder, looking at this photo, if more of the victims would have survived if they were belted in. I always feel vulnerable, when riding on a bus, esp. when I think of it stopping suddenly. I wonder why buses don't have seat belts? The shearing impact force, acting from the right to left side of the bus, is shown clearly in this photo: download/file.php?mode=view&id=34345
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 17th, 2018, 1:05 pm

swanterky wrote:One of the parents, whose name I forget, said that he was there quite shortly after the accident, and that the sun was still high in the sky, so could not have been an issue.

Unfortunately in a serious incident like this, crown would need a little more than those observations to prove the sun wasn't in the eyes of the truck driver.

I'm thinking using a similar semi tractor unit at the same time of day. Hopefully they already done it because everyday the sun is in a different position at the same time of day. Perhaps with the assistance of an expert they could provide for that change as well.

swanterky wrote:................It makes me wonder, looking at this photo, if more of the victims would have survived if they were belted in. I always feel vulnerable, when riding on a bus, esp. when I think of it stopping suddenly. I wonder why buses don't have seat belts? The shearing impact force, acting from the right to left side of the bus, is shown clearly in this photo....

The moronic sensationalizing media have unfortunately mostly shown photo's of the debris. I guess the bent metal, broken personal belongings sell more newspapers.

There is a saying in accident investigation, "talk to the road". You'll note it isn't "talk to the debris"

From the limited number of photo's that IMO "accidentally" showed that actual POI, (point of impact) it appears to be nearer to the centre line of Hwy 35 at 335, indicating to me there was some attempt by the bus driver to veer left before the impact. Because of the tree line on the S/E corner the bus driver wouldn't have had much time, and thus the impact is only slightly to the left of his original direction of travel.

Although I rarely travel by bus. Usually a hotel shuttle to an airport or being bused when my plane can't land at it's destination. I like you, feel something missing, not wearing a seat belt.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 17th, 2018, 1:55 pm

swanterky wrote:One of the parents, whose name I forget, said that he was there quite shortly after the accident, and that the sun was still high in the sky, so could not have been an issue.

my5cents wrote:Unfortunately in a serious incident like this, crown would need a little more than those observations to prove the sun wasn't in the eyes of the truck driver.

I'm thinking using a similar semi tractor unit at the same time of day. Hopefully they already done it because everyday the sun is in a different position at the same time of day. Perhaps with the assistance of an expert they could provide for that change as well.


Closes location with details on the suns location is Prince Albert SK (roughly 115 Km's as the crow flys, almost directly across)
Checking the date & time about April 6th at 6pm CST, here is a link to the site https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/prince-albert
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 17th, 2018, 2:12 pm

GordonH wrote:Closes location with details on the suns location is Prince Albert SK (roughly 115 Km's as the crow flys, almost directly across)
Checking the date & time about April 6th at 6pm CST, here is a link to the site https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/prince-albert


Wouldn't it depend on the grade of the roadway, etc ? Thus actually observing the sun from a similar vehicle at the location at the time of day.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 17th, 2018, 2:35 pm

GordonH wrote:Closes location with details on the suns location is Prince Albert SK (roughly 115 Km's as the crow flys, almost directly across)
Checking the date & time about April 6th at 6pm CST, here is a link to the site https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/canada/prince-albert

my5cents wrote:Wouldn't it depend on the grade of the roadway, etc ? Thus actually observing the sun from a similar vehicle at the location at the time of day.


Details on road conditions would be known by those who arrived first on the scene. Now if homeowners in that treed area were home at the time, they had to have heard the crash. Knowing when first responders arrived from Nipawin 23 minutes away, blankets covered those on the bus already (I heard this on video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWyLAMa9Y9M).
So those most likely answered the questioned by the police, of course that info will not be made public anytime soon I'm sure.

Link I posted about the sun would give a idea where the sun was in the sky.

Added later: just knowing they were only 23 minute away from their destination.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 17th, 2018, 4:02 pm

GordonH wrote:Details on road conditions would be known by those who arrived first on the scene. Now if homeowners in that treed area were home at the time, they had to have heard the crash. Knowing when first responders arrived from Nipawin 23 minutes away....

I don't think there is any argument about the condition of the roadway.

The issue regarding the sun, is that testimony has to be given in court, if the driver says he was blinded by the sun and the police believe he wasn't.

Was the sun so high that it would be above the top of the trucks windshield ?

Was there any incline that would cause the driver to be looking at the sun even though the sun was fairly high in the sky ?

One can't just enter a document created by someone who has calculated that at a town X kms away from the crash scene that the sun would be at X degrees. Would X degrees be in the driver's eyes ???

It doesn't take a lot of work to determine if the sun was in the driver's eyes or not, but it will take a lot of work to gather evidence that will satisfy a court.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 17th, 2018, 4:59 pm

GordonH wrote:Details on road conditions would be known by those who arrived first on the scene. Now if homeowners in that treed area were home at the time, they had to have heard the crash. Knowing when first responders arrived from Nipawin 23 minutes away....

my5cents wrote:I don't think there is any argument about the condition of the roadway.

The issue regarding the sun, is that testimony has to be given in court, if the driver says he was blinded by the sun and the police believe he wasn't.

Was the sun so high that it would be above the top of the trucks windshield ?

Was there any incline that would cause the driver to be looking at the sun even though the sun was fairly high in the sky ?

One can't just enter a document created by someone who has calculated that at a town X kms away from the crash scene that the sun would be at X degrees. Would X degrees be in the driver's eyes ???

It doesn't take a lot of work to determine if the sun was in the driver's eyes or not, but it will take a lot of work to gather evidence that will satisfy a court.


Well, how about missing the warning sign about the stop sign ahead + not seeing red flashing light. The latter one should have been seen some distance back.
As an example: I can see light at Spall rd has red light from Cooper rd, it would stand out even more if it was flashing.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 17th, 2018, 5:21 pm

GordonH wrote:Well, how about missing the warning sign about the stop sign ahead + not seeing red flashing light. The latter one should have been seen some distance back.
As an example: I can see light at Spall rd has red light from Cooper rd, it would stand out even more if it was flashing.

Don't get me wrong, I know he should have seen the warning sign and the stop sign, unless he was half asleep. The crown, though, will work towards proving every little detail. "He must have seen", or "He should have seen" isn't evidence.

Likely they will detail the road heading towards the stop sign at 35, showing the warning sign at (whatever the distance from the stop sign), then the details of the actual stop sign with the flashing red light, then the location of the sun as it would have been seen from the cab of the truck, considering the height of the driver, the make and model of truck etc
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby vinnied » Apr 17th, 2018, 7:32 pm

my5cents wrote:Don't get me wrong, I know he should have seen the warning sign and the stop sign, unless he was half asleep. The crown, though, will work towards proving every little detail. "He must have seen", or "He should have seen" isn't evidence.

Likely they will detail the road heading towards the stop sign at 35, showing the warning sign at (whatever the distance from the stop sign), then the details of the actual stop sign with the flashing red light, then the location of the sun as it would have been seen from the cab of the truck, considering the height of the driver, the make and model of truck etc

The truck has a really good sun visor as well. keep in mind also the height of the truck and also the driver compared to the flashing light and stop sign. the angle of the stop sign would not have been up, towards the sun, but rather down closer to the ground.
At this point its not even clear if he admitted to blowing through the intersection though. just that the sun was in his eyes. And from what Ive read that was when it first happened and he was talking to an officer. No one knows what hes told the investigators. As far as I know, they are still trying to determine the cause.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 6:09 am

No charges will be announced at today's press conference later this morning when RCMP release their update.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 9:47 am

The update will be livestreamed at 11 a.m. CST on CBC.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:12 am

Hopefully the driver of the Semi does the right thing and comes clean on his part of cause of this tragedy.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:15 am

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatche ... -1.4625017

The driver is in regular contact with the RCMP.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:24 am

Not much from the news conference.... "still under investigation".

They are having the "black boxes" analysed (more common than you think)

They are recreating the collision with like vehicles (good !) I hope they position a similar truck in position at the correct time with the sun shining.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:25 am

A couple of points:

It was stated the accident occurred at 5 pm so I don't know about the sun (and that would be part of the investigation) being that high in the sky as was mentioned in an earlier post.

The preliminary investigation states the tractor trailer unit was in intersection at time of collision. The question of whether it was turning or not was answered as being under investigation.
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