Sask. Bus Accident

Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:52 am

Fancy wrote:A couple of points:

It was stated the accident occurred at 5 pm so I don't know about the sun (and that would be part of the investigation) being that high in the sky as was mentioned in an earlier post.

The preliminary investigation states the tractor trailer unit was in intersection at time of collision. The question of whether it was turning or not was answered as being under investigation.


Found this site that tracks sun location https://www.sunearthtools.com/dp/tools/pos_sun.php
So in search window paste this location 53.103772, -104.026564

Then add in year/month/day & the time
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:00 am

I checked the path and rays. I wouldn't rule out what the driver thought he saw.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:07 am

Fancy wrote:I checked the path and rays. I wouldn't rule out what the driver thought he saw.


Problem being sun was to his left, stop sign with flashing red light was to his right.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:12 am

GordonH wrote:Problem being sun was to his left, stop sign with flashing red light was to his right.

That would have been a problem if he looked to his left. It hasn't been confirmed (as noted) whether he was turning or not.
Too many questions unanswered at this point.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:24 am

GordonH wrote:Problem being sun was to his left, stop sign with flashing red light was to his right.

Fancy wrote:That would have been a problem if he looked to his left. It hasn't been confirmed (as noted) whether he was turning or not.
Too many questions unanswered at this point.

He claims the sun was in his eyes, then how did he miss the stop sign with flashing red light.
If was just pulling away from that stop sign (loaded trucks don't take off from a stop very fast), the accident scene would have ended closer to hwy 35 (if not right on hwy 35) & not in northwest corner with debris heading away in Northwest direction.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:30 am

I wasn't aware you have expertise regarding accidents, however, I will defer to the investigators expertise at this point and wait for their results. It's possible to be blinded by the light. All that is acknowledged so far is the fact that the truck was in the intersection. If he missed the sign because he couldn't see it or missed the bus because he didn't see it doesn't change the outcome of the horrible tragedy that occurred.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 11:40 am

Fancy wrote:I wasn't aware you have expertise regarding accidents, however, I will defer to the investigators expertise at this point and wait for their results. It's possible to be blinded by the light. All that is acknowledged so far is the fact that the truck was in the intersection. If he missed the sign because he couldn't see it or missed the bus because he didn't see it doesn't change the outcome of the horrible tragedy that occurred.


I'm not, just someone with common sense & have seen more accident scenes then I ever wanted to.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 19th, 2018, 2:31 pm

GordonH wrote:He claims the sun was in his eyes, then how did he miss the stop sign with flashing red light.
If was just pulling away from that stop sign (loaded trucks don't take off from a stop very fast), the accident scene would have ended closer to hwy 35 (if not right on hwy 35) & not in northwest corner with debris heading away in Northwest direction.

Well the "accident scene" is the entire area. I suspect the point of impact was near the centre line of 35 at 355 and the debris ended up off the roadway on the NW corner. (the media keeps focusing on the debris on the NW corner)

I agree, there was a lot of inertia from something that took all that debris (a fully loaded B Train and a bus) to the NW corner. The bus was travelling N/B so the majority of its' energy would be North, however I suspect the driver of the bus veered to the left a split second before impact and that might have altered the force slightly to the NW. To move the semi combination all the way to the SW corner, off the roadway, took a lot of energy, where did it come from ?

Buses aren't very heavy in relation to loaded Semi B Trains, even travelling 100 kph.

The RCMP holding a press conference and telling the media NEWS FLASH, the truck was in the intersection. Ah,,,, how else would the bus, travelling along Hwy 35 have hit it ?

The truck's electronics, depending on it's year and make and could be VERY informative

http://www.meaforensic.com/hs-fs/hub/45 ... 8087741173

I've actually worked on incidents with the author of this paper. Some of the information they can obtain is amazing and can be quite a surprize to the operator of the vehicle, especially if they are hiding something.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby GordonH » Apr 19th, 2018, 2:46 pm

GordonH wrote:He claims the sun was in his eyes, then how did he miss the stop sign with flashing red light.
If was just pulling away from that stop sign (loaded trucks don't take off from a stop very fast), the accident scene would have ended closer to hwy 35 (if not right on hwy 35) & not in northwest corner with debris heading away in Northwest direction.

my5cents wrote:Well the "accident scene" is the entire area. I suspect the point of impact was near the centre line of 35 at 355 and the debris ended up off the roadway on the NW corner. (the media keeps focusing on the debris on the SW corner)

I agree, there was a lot of inertia from something that took all that debris (a fully loaded B Train and a bus) to the NW corner. The bus was travelling N/B so the majority of its' energy would be North, however I suspect the driver of the bus veered to the left a split second before impact and that might have altered the force slightly to the NW. To move the semi combination all the way to the SW corner, off the roadway, took a lot of energy, where did it come from ?

Buses aren't very heavy in relation to loaded Semi B Trains, even travelling 100 kph.

The RCMP holding a press conference and telling the media NEWS FLASH, the truck was in the intersection. Ah,,,, how else would the bus, travelling along Hwy 35 have hit it ?

The truck's electronics, depending on it's year and make and could be VERY informative

http://www.meaforensic.com/hs-fs/hub/45 ... 8087741173

I've actually worked on incidents with the author of this paper. Some of the information they can obtain is amazing and can be quite a surprize to the operator of the vehicle, especially if they are hiding something.


Looking at fly over by helicopter there is 1 item in SW corner near Stop sign, meanwhile the truck & flat-deck along with the bails of peat moss & the bus are in NW corner.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 19th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Sorry NW corner
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby vinnied » Apr 19th, 2018, 5:05 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatche ... -1.4625017


One thing that really stood out to me in that story was this sentence
"Zablocki added it's still too early to determine if the truck had blown through the stop sign or if it might have stalled in the intersection."
It makes me wonder why stalling would even be a consideration. From witness accounts that have been released, there was no time to react. the truck was there in an instant.

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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 20th, 2018, 8:20 am

vinnied wrote:One thing that really stood out to me in that story was this sentence
"Zablocki added it's still too early to determine if the truck had blown through the stop sign or if it might have stalled in the intersection."
It makes me wonder why stalling would even be a consideration. From witness accounts that have been released, there was no time to react. the truck was there in an instant.

Yes and the location of the debris, as discussed by Gordon H. The truck had inertia when hit, sending the debris to the N/W corner.

The ECM (Electronic Control Modules) or whatever term they are using for semi's and buses, (the brain of the truck) will give us some real information.

Now, will we learn the outcome of the analysis now or during a trial ? That is the question. The old "we can't comment it's before the courts" (after suggesting the truck may have been stalled in the intersection)

Throttle application (%), brake application, engine revolutions rpm, gear ?

Stalled in the intersection would shift the responsibility a long way towards the bus, but, the debris wouldn't be on the N/W corner if the truck was stalled in the intersection, so it's a very unlikely possibility, don't know why the RCMP introduced that concept.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby Fancy » Apr 20th, 2018, 9:04 am

It's prudent to consider all possibilities at the beginning of an investigation then eliminate those that don't apply. Makes it easier to focus on just the facts of what transpired later on.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby my5cents » Apr 20th, 2018, 9:40 am

Fancy wrote:It's prudent to consider all possibilities at the beginning of an investigation then eliminate those that don't apply. Makes it easier to focus on just the facts of what transpired later on.

Are we talking accident investigation or media release ?

You have a dead bus driver with his grieving family. Although the weight of the evidence supports movement of the truck into the intersection at speed. With so much use of "the investigation is still ongoing", that might have been a good position to maintain instead of injecting the possibility that the bus driver just drove straight into a stalled truck in the intersection.

If you ignore the debris on the N/W corner it's possible, if you take into account the debris, I don't think so. So better to play the "the investigation is still ongoing" card, than wildly speculate that the near impossible occurred. IMO.
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Re: Sask. Bus Accident

Postby oldtrucker » Apr 20th, 2018, 3:41 pm

Even if the sun was 20 or 30 degrees off the sight line of the stop sign, the glare may have made it impossible to see the red flashing light. Perhaps glare from the glass or other truck parts as well would have impaired his vision. It can happen.
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