PM Promises Pipeline

Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Snowbound » Apr 19th, 2018, 3:05 pm

Ranger66 wrote:I also regret that Canada cannot move away from oil faster, which does not mean I don’t understand that we will be hooked on oil for 20 years if they find a better energy source tomorrow. There are let’s say 22 million vehicle’s in Canada 10 times that in the USA, face it you have not seen the end of oil for some time to come.


And the North American population is the least of our worries. Check out some estimates for world wide population growth and the oil demand goes hand in hand. Upwards of 9.5 Billion by 2050.

The bulk of the worlds population are the poorest nations on earth. They sure as $hit aren't buying Teslas and solar panels as these nations develop. Cheap coal fired power and diesel fueled vehicles are where it's at.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Apr 19th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Snowbound wrote:
Ranger66 wrote:I also regret that Canada cannot move away from oil faster, which does not mean I don’t understand that we will be hooked on oil for 20 years if they find a better energy source tomorrow. There are let’s say 22 million vehicle’s in Canada 10 times that in the USA, face it you have not seen the end of oil for some time to come.


And the North American population is the least of our worries. Check out some estimates for world wide population growth and the oil demand goes hand in hand. Upwards of 9.5 Billion by 2050.

The bulk of the worlds population are the poorest nations on earth. They sure as $hit aren't buying Teslas and solar panels as these nations develop. Cheap coal fired power and diesel fueled vehicles are where it's at.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable ... _countries
This is just one of the links I found when I googled 'developing nations with clean energy sources'. Don't sell the poorer countries of our planet short. Most of them are far ahead of us when it comes to renewable energy.

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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Snman » Apr 19th, 2018, 6:06 pm

So what does all that BS mean, Cactusflower?
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Apr 19th, 2018, 7:51 pm

Snman wrote:So what does all that BS mean, Cactusflower?


What BS would that be, Snman?
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby hobbyguy » Apr 19th, 2018, 7:54 pm

If this is any gauge, the federal approach of quiet pressure, and carefully explaining why the pipeline is part of a balanced approach is winning out: https://globalnews.ca/news/4151592/support-for-the-trans-mountain-expansion-grows-amidst-pipeline-dispute/

6 points up in pipeline support is a big swing in that short a period.

"The new poll found 54 per cent of those asked in B.C. are in favour of the project, while 38 per cent are opposed to it. Compare this to February when 48 per cent were in favour and 40 per cent were opposed."

The hapless loser Horgan tried to slough it off, but the most recent info is that 40% of NDPers are in favor of the pipeline.

If the feds keep emphasizing the facts, and leave the rhetoric to Notley, Horgan loses on two fronts... and the best part is the LEAP lunatics are getting real world exposure for being village idiots.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Apr 19th, 2018, 10:11 pm

https://www.economist.com/news/business ... hina-moves
Rachel, Justin, and their cheerleaders will try to downplay this news item. They will refuse to see the writing on the wall, as usual. Their hatred for B.C.'s NDP government will be their downfall as, unlike them, Canadians will become more and more disillusioned with governments that punish them by stubbornly using tax dollars to build a bad project, rather than admit they're wrong.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby The Green Barbarian » Apr 20th, 2018, 6:42 am

Cactusflower wrote:https://www.economist.com/news/business/21728980-its-government-developing-plan-phase-out-vehicles-powered-fossil-fuels-china-moves
Rachel, Justin, and their cheerleaders will try to downplay this news item. They will refuse to see the writing on the wall, as usual. Their hatred for B.C.'s NDP government will be their downfall as, unlike them, Canadians will become more and more disillusioned with governments that punish them by stubbornly using tax dollars to build a bad project, rather than admit they're wrong.


What this article has to do with anything, especially pipelines in Canada, is mystifying. And kinda dumb. But that won't stop Grinning bonehead John, lying Andrew and their cheerleaders from trying to say this article is relevant. They will refuse to see the writing on the wall as usual. Their hatred of freedom and love of communism will be their downfall, as unlike them, Canadians will become more and more angry with governments that punish them by killing thousands of jobs and the wasting of millions of dollars on insanely stupid and frivolous lawsuits, rather than admit they are wrong.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Hurtlander » Apr 20th, 2018, 7:39 am

Cactusflower wrote:https://www.economist.com/news/business/21728980-its-government-developing-plan-phase-out-vehicles-powered-fossil-fuels-china-moves
Rachel, Justin, and their cheerleaders will try to downplay this news item. They will refuse to see the writing on the wall, as usual. Their hatred for B.C.'s NDP government will be their downfall as, unlike them, Canadians will become more and more disillusioned with governments that punish them by stubbornly using tax dollars to build a bad project, rather than admit they're wrong.

Who the :cuss: cares if they ban the internal combustion engine. China will still require every drop of oil we send them to fulfill the needs of the petrochemical industry to manufacture everything from the housing on your smartphone, the synthetic material your sneakers are made from, to the dashboards, door panels and upholstery of all the EV vehicles they’ll be driving...
Why can’t the brain dead anti oil movement get it through their thick skulls that there’s so much more to oil than just fuel..
And I don’t want to hear the usual bull :cuss: that plant based oil can be used to replace fossil fuel. There’s only so much arable land with adequate irrigation on this planet, we can either grow crops for oil, or food crops, but not both..
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Glacier » Apr 20th, 2018, 8:44 am

There are two approaches to a greener future.
1) ban the current stuff we use.
RESULT:massive poverty, debt, unemployment, debt, etc.
2) allow existing stuff, but encourage and foster new greener alternatives.
RESULT: a slow transition to a greener future.

As much fun as I have bashing Trudeau, I give him credit for going with option 2.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Apr 20th, 2018, 11:21 am

Glacier wrote:There are two approaches to a greener future.
1) ban the current stuff we use.
RESULT:massive poverty, debt, unemployment, debt, etc.
2) allow existing stuff, but encourage and foster new greener alternatives.
RESULT: a slow transition to a greener future.

As much fun as I have bashing Trudeau, I give him credit for going with option 2.


There's a third option: Stop dragging your feet and ramp up the production of clean energy NOW. There's no excuse for building bitumen pipelines that will be obsolete before they're even paid for.....(by Canadian taxpayers, I might add).
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Glacier » Apr 20th, 2018, 11:38 am

If they were to be be obsolete in a few short years, Kinder Morgan wouldn't be willing to invest billions of dollars into building it. Oil is not going away any time soon. The transition is painfully slow, but such is life. Just you didn't transition into a woman overnight, you can't transition away from oil overnight. We need to let the market determine when we are off oil by providing incentives for alternatives, not by cutting off the oil before there are viable alternatives. Yes, there are alternatives to some things, but good luck replacing the device you reading this post on without plastic or oil.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby alanjh595 » Apr 20th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Glacier wrote:If they were to be be obsolete in a few short years, Kinder Morgan wouldn't be willing to invest billions of dollars into building it. Oil is not going away any time soon. The transition is painfully slow, but such is life. Just you didn't transition into a woman overnight, you can't transition away from oil overnight. We need to let the market determine when we are off oil by providing incentives for alternatives, not by cutting off the oil before there are viable alternatives. Yes, there are alternatives to some things, but good luck replacing the device you reading this post on without plastic or oil.


What a GREAT post! :hailjo: So great in fact, that it is worth repeating. :up: :hailjo:

Good job Glacier.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby Cactusflower » Apr 20th, 2018, 12:45 pm

Glacier wrote:If they were to be be obsolete in a few short years, Kinder Morgan wouldn't be willing to invest billions of dollars into building it. Oil is not going away any time soon. The transition is painfully slow, but such is life. Just you didn't transition into a woman overnight, you can't transition away from oil overnight. We need to let the market determine when we are off oil by providing incentives for alternatives, not by cutting off the oil before there are viable alternatives. Yes, there are alternatives to some things, but good luck replacing the device you reading this post on without plastic or oil.


It's going to take more than a few short years for us to pay for the KMX. And nobody said oil is going away anytime soon. Just oil for transportation will decrease a lot faster than oil for plastics. Or not. It seems that the world leaders are intent on replacing plastic with things that are more environmentally friendly as well........except of course our PM.
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby alanjh595 » Apr 20th, 2018, 12:49 pm

Cactusflower wrote:It's going to take more than a few short years for us to pay for the KMX. And nobody said oil is going away anytime soon. Just oil for transportation will decrease a lot faster than oil for plastics. Or not. It seems that the world leaders are intent on replacing plastic with things that are more environmentally friendly as well........except of course our PM.


Please give us an example of:
It seems that the world leaders are intent on replacing plastic with things that are more environmentally friendly as well
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Re: PM Promises Pipeline

Postby alanjh595 » Apr 20th, 2018, 1:31 pm

How much of a car, including the Nissan Leaf are made from plastics?
To make it easy, here's the evidence:
By 2020, the average car will incorporate nearly 350 kg of plastics, up from 200 kg in 2014


Using the Nissan Leaf as an example, "How much travel time and how often for how long to recharge a Leaf"?
The Leaf’s driving range makes it an affordable EV with everyday usability. The electric motor has great low-end power, and the 40-kWh battery offers 151 miles of EPA-estimated range. DC quick charging can replenish 90 miles of range in 30 minutes, but a full charge from a typical 120-volt wall outlet will take 35 hours.


Therefore, 90 miles for 30 minutes of charge. That is 30 minutes of charge time plus drive time at (let's give it the benefit) 100 miles. At 50 m/h plus 30 minutes recharge time, would equate to 2 1/2 hours +/- to travel 90 miles. Another way to look at it is 4 hours at 100 km/hr or for the Leaf....8 hours plus at least 4 + stops for charging at 30 minutes each would = 10 hours travel time, during ideal Summer months. (because we know that using windshield wipers and heat, greatly reduce mileage and increase travel time considerably.
I haven't even factored in 1 passenger, never mind the extra clothing that would be required if there was a snowfall and/or road closure due to an accident enroute.

In conclusion:
Kelowna to Vancouver
Leaf = 10+ hours @ 50km/hr including 4 charging stops.
Any other 4 cyl. gas car = 4 hrs. @ 100 k/hr. NO stopping.

What is the distance to California from here?
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