Open refugee doors?

Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby burnedatstake » May 1st, 2018, 8:10 pm

Catsumi wrote:And do you really think YOU are going to swim to the surface, unscathed?


i dont feel threatened at all. i guess i dont spook as easily as some people. maybe some people should have stayed in high school in their bubbles and cliques? im sure it was safer for them back then. too bad the world is such a scary place for them.....
the capitalist idea of liberty is that one persons right to profit can be greater than another persons right to live.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 1st, 2018, 8:31 pm

You are not threatened, all is well, close your eyes, relax, relax, you are not threatened...
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby d0nb » May 1st, 2018, 9:51 pm

Catsumi wrote:For an issue so critical to our future, isn't it amazing that immigration has NEVER been put to public discussion, information meetings, debate or vote? We don't even have a choice as to where we would prefer immigrants come from, how many, their qualifications; we are at the mercy of our own government (not necessarily a "pal to the people") bending to a UN report.

It is also amazing that the Western world paid heed to warnings about population growth outstripping global supply of land and resources and chose willingly, without coersion, to accept birth control. To what end? Our reward then is to see influxes of large numbers of immigrants with differing ideas of population growth. I believe this idea is called diaspora.

The crises that Europe is experiencing with open door policies has changed it forever. There is NO going back.


Our politicians are just dishonest smart enough to know that there are many questions about immigration that they don't really want answers to. Taking the best of the best away from the countries that raised and educated them is to our advantage, but just letting the population shrink isn’t something that we should fear.

Maybe we could increase our population by joining a more populous country. We'd get millions of new residents, and add oh, let's say, a land area about the size of the US. [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby d0nb » May 1st, 2018, 9:55 pm

burnedatstake wrote:imagine how the native americans felt when the europeans came in like locusts.........its a circle of life thing. gotta keep the gene pool strong.


One would imagine that they felt much the same as when wave after wave of new immigrants came from Asia, killing and displacing those who came earlier, or when a neighboring tribe decided that they wanted more slaves, or more territory.

If not for the fact that diseases from Africa, Asia and Europe came along for the ride, the arrival of people from across the Atlantic would have been just one more chapter in the story. Disease conquered the first Americans, not immigrants.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 5th, 2018, 11:16 am

CBC Radio, The House, interview with Ahmed Hussen. Today


This 7 min interview was to address the issue of illegal migration into Canada and the NDP's stated wish to have the Liberals suspend the third safe entry agreement with USA

Hussen waffled, bobbed and weaved, droned on, saying nothing, until the host lost patience with the non answers.

Host related that It is of great concern that now the "illegal" crossings into Canada now EXCEED entries at legal ports of entry. Daily peeps are crossing into Canada wherever they wish but esp at the Quebec and Manitoba ports.

Hussen droned on again. (Why is it that those holding highest and most controversial portfolios cannot speak clearly and with voice modulation, they are more like hypnotists...you are getting sleepy!)

When in closing the host asks Hussen what steps are being taken to quell Canadians fears that our porous borders are being abused and our social welfare dollars are draining away at an alarming rate, Hussen revealed that the Liberal government just threw in $ 173 millions (after who knows how much already) to:


1. Process migrants faster so successful ones can enter

2. Unsuccessfuls will be "asked" to leave (no indication how long "ask" is in place

3. At some point the "asked" but unresponsive will be "sent back" (at our expense) with no indication of how they will be found. If they came thru USA first which is most likely seeing how this is the problem to start with, (USA will not accept them) Hussen must mean that the caught entrants are returned to Nigeria, etc. Not cheap.

4. This money is also to be used to help clear away the record high backlog which has accumulated this past 12 months.

Just what we need. Another bonfire of a stack of taxpayers money. That is supposed to make everything alright.

My concerns are not "quelled" at all.

Added: the thread title does not reflect the fact that doors are wide open already
Last edited by Catsumi on May 5th, 2018, 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby the truth » May 5th, 2018, 11:46 am

what a gong show :-X :cuss:
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 7th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Anyone catch the 6 pm News?

Our borders no longer exist. Over run by the hordes. USA says, so sorry, but what can you do? Shrug....

Much hand wringing.

"Nothing can be done"

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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Poindexter » May 8th, 2018, 8:01 am

I consider myself pretty liberal but when it comes to immigration I can see the writing on the wall. Unless Liberal democracies start to make concessions on border security and immigration, they will eventually loose out to populists. This wouldn't just lead to a complete shut down on immigration but also all the other things liberal democracies stand for would be lost as well. Prior generations worked too hard to get us to where we are for us to throw it all away by digging our heels in over just one issue.

You can fight for liberal values without being liberal on immigration
snip

Liberals who seriously want to defend liberal democracy should stop condemning those who disagree with them on immigration. Uncritical support for wide-open borders is a major reason for the collapse of social democracy in Europe, as traditional center-left voters have flocked to populist, anti-immigration parties, which are often the only ones offering reasonable limits on immigration.

snip

Addressing such concerns doesn’t mean that those of us who favor immigration must automatically approve sealing off all borders. It does mean that we need to make some serious concessions. For if every move to restrict immigration (like abolishing the visa lottery) or strengthen borders (building a wall) or discourage further migratory waves (such as Denmark’s seizing valuables worth more than $1,500 from migrants) is portrayed as a concession to fascism, then the only people who benefit will be fascists. Liberal democracy has enough enemies at the moment. Liberal democrats should stop making new ones.


https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.washing ... migration/

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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby CapitalB » May 8th, 2018, 8:27 am

I know this is mostly about 'refugees' but to me that just sounds like immigrants from places at war. The people directly in question currently number like 25-35,000 now, but if we opened it up more it would end up more like fast track immigration.

What are reasonable limits? I mean the 250,000ish some odd people that immigrated last year into canada is somewhere south of %0.008 of our population. This year they want to increase that to 350,000 which will probably push it actually up to %0.008 of our population.

Meanwhile our fertility rate has held steady at 1.6 for a while now, which is a bit lower than the states (1.84) and significantly lower than mexico (2.21).

Thats not looking like a real positive population growth situation for canada. From a pure numbers perspective the government likely needs to be doing whatever it can to keep canadas population growing. Since increasing population is the easiest long term strategy to guarantee economic growth.

This complicates the situation somewhat. I mean there are a lot of other ways to influence population growth, most of them come down to putting more money in peoples pockets and making it easier to purchase homes. Those however all have the downside of taking quite a few years to yield substantial numbers of working age people. Which leads us back to the refugee/immigrants situation.

The places we're letting refugees in were ten fifteen years ago largely modern cities. They're now trashed but most of the people there are reasonable middle class families that just want to not die in an explosion or get shot. I can empathize with that, I think since their process is is fast tracked that theres a lot of stuff that would be missed from the standard immigration process. I don't think it would be unreasonable to have a bit of a government guidance and assistance program to get these people up to speed in our country.

It sounds expensive at face value but if you look at it like a government its money in the bank, people here to work and pay taxes.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 8th, 2018, 8:49 am

The article that Poindexter nails the crux of the matter perfectly.

It is such a shame that those who want some kind of controls imposed on illegal border crossings are branded racist and anti-immigrant. Shuts down the argument completely or causes a wider gulf between "sides". Not good. Events in Europe are a demo.

A metaphor for our open border would be leaving the doors and windows of our home, wide open, 24/7. Anyone can enter at any time in any number, with unknown purposes in mind.

Why do we need to keep expanding our population more and more? From my vantage point an ever increasing population means overcrowded cities, loss of forest to build more housing, fewer wild animals due to deforestation, more stress on social services, more competition for jobs, more pollution and so on.

However if you see it as an increase in jobs (to service the increasing numbers, and more tax collected (more hiring in CRA) you also have points, but not something I care to see happen.

What is it, exactly, that is wrong with keeping population at the same level?



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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby CapitalB » May 8th, 2018, 9:09 am

Population growth is the easiest guaranteed way to increase economic numbers, more people = more business' = more jobs = more GDP = more taxes.
So much of the violent push-back on everything progressive and reformist comes down to: I can see the future, and in this future I am not the centre of the universe and master of all that I survey, therefore this future must be resisted at all costs.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 8th, 2018, 9:13 am

Got it. A bigger clusterduck is much better than a small one. :biggrin:
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby CapitalB » May 8th, 2018, 9:25 am

I'm just going with how the government looks at it. Thats what success looks like to our government and most other ones around the world. Those are the numbers they look at, and thats how they see us, as numbers on a population jobs taxes gdp chart.

Though on a more realistic note if our population started declining, or doesn't increase fast enough our first world comforts start to unravel. Our economic system requires a lot of people entering it at the very bottom of the wage scale to be sustainable. With the relatively low birth rate in canada those people increasingly are not coming from multi generational canadian families.

This is evidenced by the minimum wage war going on, as fewer people compete for minimum wage jobs the employees get more leverage to demand higher pay.
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Catsumi » May 8th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Mmmmm, dearie me, seems like you and me waltzing alone together today, CapitalB. (toes, take care).

So, the guvamint knows best what's best for us.

"They" won't be around in future (off to richly pensioned vacation-land), leaving the rest of us in the wake of their supercharged seacraft, towing fools.


Possibly, when Canada is over populated, everyone fighting tooth and nail for their spot in the sun, where do surplus folks go then? Think India. think China. Nigeria. Wars, famine, thuggery. Yeah, all the taxes being collected, all the government jobs to oversee the mess, sounds like a party.

The Melting Pot a gooey concoction.


Maybe like lemmings, we need to jump off the cliff. Thin the herd.

Sorry, a lousy post for your response! I blush.


:biggrin:
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Re: Open refugee doors?

Postby Glacier » Jan 28th, 2019, 10:02 pm

“Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die”
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