Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby Ka-El » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:06 pm

OKkayak wrote:
Ka-El wrote:*note the bolded part: the issue at hand

Note the issue at hand is a legitimate question was asked.

"Are you intolerant of the Québécois de souche ?” is not really much of a legitimate question. I have a whole list of things to be critical of Trudeau for. Some people find ways to be critical of anything and everything he does. Not really worth missing an episode of Fear the Walking Dead over (recorded from last night). Bonne soirée
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby OKkayak » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:11 pm

Ka-El wrote:"Are you intolerant of the Québécois de souche ?” is not really much of a legitimate question.

Thats not the question that this thread is about, this thread's topic is:
"I want to know when you are going to refund the $146 million we paid for your illegal immigrants?"

Ka-El wrote: I have a whole list of things to be critical of Trudeau for. Some people find ways to be critical of anything and everything he does.

Just as there are those who will defend all and anything their personal political saviour (Trudeau, Horgan, Trump, whomever) say and do.

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with the woman's political views. It has nothing to do with Trudeau himself. It has everything to do with how poorly the situation was handled.
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby floppi » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:28 pm

OKkayak wrote:
Ka-El wrote:"Are you intolerant of the Québécois de souche ?” is not really much of a legitimate question.

Thats not the question that this thread is about, this thread's topic is:
"I want to know when you are going to refund the $146 million we paid for your illegal immigrants?"

Ka-El wrote: I have a whole list of things to be critical of Trudeau for. Some people find ways to be critical of anything and everything he does.

Just as there are those who will defend all and anything their personal political saviour (Trudeau, Horgan, Trump, whomever) say and do.

As far as I'm concerned, this has nothing to do with the woman's political views. It has nothing to do with Trudeau himself. It has everything to do with how poorly the situation was handled.


[icon_lol2.gif] Better read the topic again and take the entire encounter in context and ask yourself if the shrew granny didn't get to express her opinions. I think she clearly did that and bragged about it afterwards on social media.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby OKkayak » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:33 pm

floppi wrote:
[icon_lol2.gif] Better read the topic again and take the entire encounter in context and ask yourself if the shrew granny didn't get to express her opinions. I think she clearly did that and bragged about it afterwards on social media.

I've read the topic and thread, including your consistent deflections, thanks :up:
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby floppi » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:39 pm

OKkayak wrote:
floppi wrote:
[icon_lol2.gif] Better read the topic again and take the entire encounter in context and ask yourself if the shrew granny didn't get to express her opinions. I think she clearly did that and bragged about it afterwards on social media.

I've read the topic and thread, including your consistent deflections, thanks :up:


If you mean by deflection was getting at the true nature of JT's encounter with the racist granny and having him call out a racist for what she is, your welcome. :130:
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby Omnitheo » Aug 27th, 2018, 7:50 pm

DIANE BLAIN: When will you give back the $146 million to Quebec? I'd like your response. I'm a senior, and I'd like a response.

JUSTIN TRUDEAU: Madam, thank you for being here this evening, thank you very much for your support. I'm very happy to have you here. You ask what we can deliver for seniors. Madam, we delivered an increase in the guaranteed income supplement of $1,000 per month, by $1,000 per year, for seniors on their own, the most vulnerable.

MALE HECKLER (repeatedly): We are not in Mohawk territory.

BLAIN: That's not what I asked you. We need the $146 million for Quebecers.

TRUDEAU: We invested billions of dollars for the Canada Child Benefit, which makes an enormous difference in the lives of families around the province and the country.

BLAIN: We're asking you for the $146 million for Quebecers that you gave to illegal immigrants.

TRUDEAU: Madam, one of the things that is important, madam, in politics is to listen. My friends, it is listening that counts. We are in dialogue.

MALE HECKLER (repeatedly): We are not in Mohawk territory.

BLAIN: But you are not answering me.

TRUDEAU: Sir, you are in the course of saying things that are anti-Indigenous, it isn't very nice, it isn't very polite.

BLAIN: Answer me.

TRUDEAU: We are here to share, to dialogue, I am looking forward to listening to you.

BLAIN: Answer me, Mr. Trudeau.

TRUDEAU: On the condition that you listen to me now, madam. You have something to say, madam? Go ahead.

BLAIN: Answer me, I want to know when you will give us back the $146 million that we paid for your illegal immigrants.

TRUDEAU: OK, madam.

BLAIN: It's us who paid for that.

TRUDEAU: This intolerance regarding immigrants does not have a place in Canada. This intolerance of diversity, you do not have a place here.

(Cheering)

BLAIN: Hey. Trudeau. Trudeau.

TRUDEAU: Madam, Canada was built by waves of immigration that were welcomed by the First Nations, who showed us how to build a strong society, and the people who come here, generation after generation to build stronger communities, this is what makes us stronger as a country and, madam, your intolerance does not have a place here.

MAN OFF CAMERA: Yes, she's making threats. Get her out of here.

MAN IN WHITE SHIRT, BLACK VEST: Are you making threats?

TRUDEAU: We are Liberals here, we know that diversity is a source of strength, never a source of weakness and madam, your fear, your fear of others, your intolerance does not have a place among us tonight. Thank you very much, my friends. Thank you for being here, thanks for working hard and uniting people because we see that there will be intolerance in the coming months. There will be attacks in the coming months.

BLAIN: I have another question.

TRUDEAU: But you must know that strength is to unite and not to scream, not to spread fear, not to spread intolerance, madam.

BLAIN (repeatedly): Are you tolerant of Québécois de souche [white French Quebecers]?

MALE HECKLER (repeatedly): We are not in Mohawk territory.

TRUDEAU: Yes madam, I am tolerant of all perspectives, it is you, madam, who is intolerant, and you don't have a place in this beautiful gathering of Liberals. Thank you, friends.

(Cheering. Trudeau descends from stage and begins shaking hands with people in the crowd.)

BLAIN: Have you spread intolerance towards Québécois de souche?

PERSON IN CROWD: [Swearing] Shut up, damn it.

BLAIN: Go ahead and give your hand to this Trudeau.

WOMAN IN CROWD: No, but it's enough, really.

(Crosstalk)

WOMAN IN CROWD: She's going in there.

(Blain approaches Trudeau.)

TRUDEAU (repeated three times): Madam, your racism has no place here.

BLAIN: Answer me. You have no place in Quebec. Do you understand? You have no place in Quebec.

TRUDEAU: Excuse me, madam. I'm a proud Quebecer, madam, I'm a proud Quebecer.

(Shaking hands)

TRUDEAU: Thank you, it's lovely to see you.

Trudeau continues shaking hands, cameraman leaves crowd and joins Blain who is being questioned.)

CAMERAMAN: Look at what they're doing with the woman. Look at what they're doing.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: Do you have a piece of ID with you?

BLAIN: No.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: Now you're going to come with me.

BLAIN: No.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: Now come with me.

BLAIN: Let me go, you're hurting me.... Let me go, look I'll bruise.

(Crosstalk)

CAMERAMAN: She wasn't threatening anyone. She just wanted to speak.

BLAIN: I wasn't threatening anyone. I have the right to express my opinion to Mr. Trudeau. Let me go. Did you understand me? Let me go.

CAMERAMAN: You have no authority to hold this woman, you have no authority.

BLAIN: Hey, you gave me a bruise, look.

(Another man approaches, wearing a badge.)

(Inaudible)

BLAIN: What happened? Well, I just asked Mr. Trudeau some questions, that's all.

OFFICER WITH BADGE: And then what happened?

CAMERAMAN: She has the right to her opinion.

BLAIN: You don't have to arrest me because I asked questions.

OFFICER WITH BADGE: You're absolutely right.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: Do you have a piece of ID on you?

BLAIN: No, I don't, leave me alone, that's twice you've asked me.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: What is your name?

BLAIN: You won't know, I don't want...

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: I'm a police officer, ma'am.

CAMERAMAN: What is the number of your badge, we want to have it.

OFFICER WITH BASEBALL CAP: 62945. I'm a police officer (inaudible) with the RCMP, ma'am, I'm not finished with you.

BLAIN: Yeah, but I'm finished, because you hurt me. Hey. You hurt me. Look at the bruise you gave me.

Blain walks away.)

MAN IN CROWD: We're witnessing the freedom of expression in Quebec.

(Blain is approached by officer again.)

BLAIN: I had the right to ask a question to Mr. Trudeau and he calls me intolerant, it's him who is intolerant with the Québécois de souche.

OFFICER WITH BADGE (inaudible) You're excited.

BLAIN: Oh no, I'm hysterical, I'm a woman. A man who says his opinion has balls but a woman who expresses her opinion is hysterical. Leave me alone.

(Blain walks away from officer.)

CAMERAMAN: You only talked, you didn't make any threats.

BLAIN: No, but, hey Mario. (inaudible) Yes, you didn't hear me? A crowd of police officers arrested me and look he gave me a bruise.



That’s quite impressive. Sounds like it took several questions and minutes of heckling before Trudeau said her racism had no place here. As for the question, he’s not answering because he ha no answer. Anyone expecting otherwise from this exchange or dissapointed by the non-answer doesn’t follow politics very closely. Seems he was patient with the women up until a point where he had had enough and called her out for what she was. The lady then proceeded to throw a fit, claiming she was being attacked for her opinion, claiming she was being arrested when she wasn’t, cry about a bruise, make the tired “but you’re intolerant of our intolerance!” statement and then go home and proudly claim victory over getting the prime minister to “go ballistic”. Talk about a skewed sense of reality. Are people here really defending this lady’s behaviour?

She gave her opinion, which was accepted. And then she became increasingly belligerent and was disturbing the crowd who had gathered to listen to the prime minister.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby rustled » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:02 pm

^^Look again.

Instead of answering her question, he deflected to a mishmash of other topics. When she repeated her question, tried to get him to address the issue she was actually raising, he accused her of intolerance.

Perhaps he was confused by the male heckler, perhaps not.

Then he went on to lecture her about diversity, still without ever answering the question she had asked.

He claimed to be listening, but he did not ever respond to the question she actually asked. Instead, he roused the crowd against her.

Contrast this with how he handled the pipeline protesters.

If you're still unable to see the difference, and why it matters to those of us who expect better of our leader than platitudes and deflection, IMO it is simply because you choose to champion him regardless of what he does.
Last edited by rustled on Aug 27th, 2018, 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby Merry » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:03 pm

Trudeau referred to the lady as having an "intolerance towards immigrants" before she even mentioned the Quebecois de souche. So using her affiliation with that group as an excuse for Trudeau's rudeness is just a red herring.

However that said, her political affiliations don't really matter for the purpose of this discussion. Because her question was a legitimate question, that many Canadians would like an answer to. And we're not all right wing racists just because we think the Feds should pay a larger share of the cost of processing and housing all the thousands of illegals crossing our border.

Frankly I'm tired of people playing the race card as a means of trying to silence those they disagree with. It's become a way of life for many to think "you don't agree with my views on illegal immigration, so you must be a racist". And that way of thinking simply isn't correct. Lots of Canadians are in favour of legal immigration because they realize that we need lots of new skilled people to come here if we are to prosper economically. And lots of Canadians are in favour of helping refugees escape war and persecution. But there are also lots of Canadians who aren't convinced that the majority of current illegal border crossers are genuine refugees, but rather economic migrants who are trying to jump the queue. And holding that belief does not make those Canadians racist.

The number of illegals jumped following Trudeau's foolish tweet. And, as pointed out earlier, it is only the Feds who have the power to do anything to try and reduce the numbers. So therefore, it is not surprising that there are lots of folks who think the Feds should be footing the bill. And most of those folks do not belong to the Quebecois de souche (whatever the heck that is). So Trudeau should not have used her affiliation with that group to dodge answering her question. Because it is a question many of us would like answered.
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby floppi » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:25 pm

Wow, like Rempel, the conservativesa the OP and the JT haters on this thread, went on a full blown gasket blowing hate for JT for 4 pages before I pointed out the context in which JT had called the granny a racist. I went and reread the pages and it was quite funny. Fact is if you walk like a duck and quake like a duck, you're a DUCK! I'm grateful we don't have a racist leader in Canada and will stand up to intolerance and hatred wherever it may pop up. I grew up in the Deep South in the States so I'm pretty much acquainted with it. It's ugly and despicable and there should be no place for it anywhere.

And oh yeah, "Freedom of opinion in Canada" is most definitely not under threat in Canada regarding JT's encounter with the little ole lady from Quebec.
Last edited by floppi on Aug 27th, 2018, 8:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby crookedmember » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:29 pm

When even loopy Rempel has to backtrack, Houston, you have a problem.

Rempel on heckler: 'I don't know this woman'

On Wednesday, Rempel said she hadn’t seen that part of the exchange.

“I don't know this woman,” said Rempel to reporters in Ottawa. “The clip that I saw...showed this woman asking a question that the premier of Quebec himself has asked,” she said, referring to repaying Quebec for irregular border-crossers.

Asked whether she thought Blain was racist, Rempel referred back to the question about funding for Quebec, noting “people don’t like to have their concerns dismissed." She added questions around budgeting are “reasonable.”

But she quickly rejected the notion that the Conservatives had sided with the woman. "I was commenting on a video that (CTV News) posted."

In response to another followup question, Rempel again said she hadn't seen the full exchange.

"I haven't spent the last three days looking at what this woman said. This is the first time, to be honest with you, you're telling me this here," she said.

"I'm not Québécois so I don't understand the term writ large. But if it holds offence to people...of course I don’t support that.”

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2018/0 ... ze-trudeau
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby rustled » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:40 pm

floppi wrote:Wow, like Rempel, the conservativesa the OP and the JT haters on this thread, went on a full blown gasket blowing hate for JT for 4 pages before I pointed out the context in which JT had called the granny a racist. I went and reread the pages and it was quite funny. Fact is if you walk like a duck and quake like a duck, you're a DUCK! I'm grateful we don't have a racist leader in Canada and will stand up to intolerance and hatred wherever it may pop up. I grew up in the Deep South in the States so I'm pretty much acquainted with it. It's ugly and despicable and there should no place for it anywhere.

And oh yeah, "Freedom of opinion in Canada" is most definitely not under threat in Canada regarding JT's encounter with the little ole lady from Quebec.

LOL. Marvelous bit hyperbole. I add my congratulations to your own.

JT accused the woman of intolerance well before he called her racist and roused the crowd against her for bringing up the cost to the provinces of his government's policies on illegal immigrants. But heck, you already know that.

Anything to gloss past how badly JT handled it, right?

Plenty of intolerance to go around, apparently! But there's no place for it anywhere, right? And you'll stand up to intolerance anywhere, right? Too funny.

JT blew it on this one. Yep, he's (gasp!) human and makes mistakes, too.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby floppi » Aug 27th, 2018, 8:45 pm

rustled wrote:
floppi wrote:Wow, like Rempel, the conservativesa the OP and the JT haters on this thread, went on a full blown gasket blowing hate for JT for 4 pages before I pointed out the context in which JT had called the granny a racist. I went and reread the pages and it was quite funny. Fact is if you walk like a duck and quake like a duck, you're a DUCK! I'm grateful we don't have a racist leader in Canada and will stand up to intolerance and hatred wherever it may pop up. I grew up in the Deep South in the States so I'm pretty much acquainted with it. It's ugly and despicable and there should no place for it anywhere.

And oh yeah, "Freedom of opinion in Canada" is most definitely not under threat in Canada regarding JT's encounter with the little ole lady from Quebec.

LOL. Marvelous bit hyperbole. I add my congratulations to your own.

JT accused the woman of intolerance well before he called her racist and roused the crowd against her for bringing up the cost to the provinces of his government's policies on illegal immigrants. But heck, you already know that.

Anything to gloss past how badly JT handled it, right?

Plenty of intolerance to go around, apparently! But there's no place for it anywhere, right? And you'll stand up to intolerance anywhere, right?

Too funny.

JT blew it on this one. Yep, he's (gasp!) human and makes mistakes, too.


I think the only people saying that are the JT haters on this thread.....not a recent peep from the consevative either. They realize it's not a winnable position for them to hold. This has already disappeared from the political landscape as a win for Justin Trudeau. :D
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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby Veovis » Aug 27th, 2018, 9:03 pm

floppi wrote: This has already disappeared from the political landscape as a win for Justin Trudeau. :D


IN your mind as you have very clearly written a new story to complete your acceptance of the occurrence. Justin was an arse to a woman who is an arse, so you re-write reality to edit out Justin being anything other than some glorious champion, when in reality he was an a-hole and intolerant, to someone who is also intolerant.

Birds of a feather, but your reality edits out half of it to justify your own bigotry.

Myself, I can see that Scheer who many like you like to use more JT like bigotry and call him "dimples" is likely not a hero, but Justin is also not one and takes the mantle of hero while being a villain makes him sadly worse.. Not seeing that is just delusional and sad.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby hobbyguy » Aug 27th, 2018, 9:10 pm

What distresses me more than JT's minor gaffe in handling this woman is that people are trying legitimize this obvious racist and planted heckler.

As I have said before, propaganda does not have to be false to be propaganda in context. https://ipolitics.ca/2018/04/19/ottawa-and-quebec-reach-agreements-to-ease-tensions-over-asylum-seekers/

The premier of Quebec appears to have been satisfied that solutions and funding relief are being worked out a long time ago.

This racist person bringing up the same question that was answered in April, to the apparent satisfaction of Quebec's Immigration Minister, David Heurtel - which I am sure was well publicized - was nothing more than a blatant attempt to create and stir up irrational fears and give entirely the wrong the wrong impression.

I'm happy that JT smacked her down, not so happy he let it get personal, but overall I think the attitudes of these far right racist organizations, like Storm Alliance are just plain disgusting. Asylum seekers are people, not as the racist Trump describes them "illegals" - they are asylum seeking people, and dehumanizing labels like "illegals" are used by racists to get folks to think of them as less than people. Well they aren't - they are people. With that the foible that some are not legitimate asylum seekers, which is being dealt with, and many that are legitimate asylum seeking people.

It is tolerance of that kind of labeling and propaganda from the neo-fascist white supremacists that has led to Trump and Sessions inhumane separation of children from their parents, and putting those children in dog kennels.

So I am glad that JT put this woman in her place, at the far fringe of our society, and can only hope that one day people like that can get past their childish tribalism and insecurity.
Anyone but Scheer - career pols are know nothings.

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Re: Freedom of opinion under threat in Canada

Postby floppi » Aug 27th, 2018, 9:42 pm

Veovis wrote:
floppi wrote: This has already disappeared from the political landscape as a win for Justin Trudeau. :D


IN your mind as you have very clearly written a new story to complete your acceptance of the occurrence. Justin was an arse to a woman who is an arse, so you re-write reality to edit out Justin being anything other than some glorious champion, when in reality he was an a-hole and intolerant, to someone who is also intolerant.

Birds of a feather, but your reality edits out half of it to justify your own bigotry.

Myself, I can see that Scheer who many like you like to use more JT like bigotry and call him "dimples" is likely not a hero, but Justin is also not one and takes the mantle of hero while being a villain makes him sadly worse.. Not seeing that is just delusional and sad.


Careful Veovis your gonna blow a gasket. I can't stand politicians and JT is no hero to me but for me he is the lesser evil especially after the last party that was in power. Sure, he's made a lot of mistakes and gaffes but who hasn't in politics especially when people are looking to bring them down. I think learning on the job is a tough way to start and I think he's doing pretty well in the job comparatively speaking. I despised Harper so maybe that's why I lean towards JT a little more but not the full blown love your talking about tho.
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