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Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Nov 29th, 2018, 8:41 am
by Ka-El
Catsumi wrote: Just what the environmental crowd wanted .... Rail cars flipping over into the rivers rather than that dratted pipeline.

Ironic, isn't it - and a good example of how some people's ignorance/stupidity can detrimentally affect everyone.

An entire country held back due to the misguided ideas of a small but vocal minority :swear:

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 2nd, 2018, 6:44 pm
by Catsumi
Did anyone catch the press gathering around Notley's announcement tonite on CBC news?

Big cuts to oil production coming up plus the rail car purchases needed to clear off 35 million barrels now in storage.

It is a sad state of affairs for Canada's desperately needed revenue to support the skyrocketing expenditures by the Feds.

What I am wondering is with all the extra rail cars out there and no additional tracks being laid, what will happen to other goods that must be transported (grain for example)? The rail tracks will be too busy to accommodate other traffic, yes?

Notley said that when we are sitting in our vehicles at railway crossings waiting and waiting, maybe we could think how nice it would have been to ship the stuff by pipeline.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 5:20 pm
by Cactusflower
Ka-El wrote:
Catsumi wrote: Just what the environmental crowd wanted .... Rail cars flipping over into the rivers rather than that dratted pipeline.

Ironic, isn't it - and a good example of how some people's ignorance/stupidity can detrimentally affect everyone.

An entire country held back due to the misguided ideas of a small but vocal minority :swear:


The small but vocal minority (with the exception of the contributors to the Castanet forums where they are very large and loud) are the climate change deniers. Notley should have told Albertans the truth instead of what she knew they wanted to hear.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 5:23 pm
by The Green Barbarian
Cactusflower wrote:
The small but vocal minority (with the exception of the contributors to the Castanet forums where they are very large and loud) are the climate change deniers. Notley should have told Albertans the truth instead of what she knew they wanted to hear.


No, the small but vocal and incredibly stupid minority are the lunatics in Canada being completely unaware that they are being used by American corporations to shut down pipelines and keep the price of crude low. These people have actually convinced themselves that they are "fighting the good fight" against those evil "climate change deniers" but in actuality they are being used for the pure purpose of high treason. As Lenin used to say "the useful idiots of the West". The enviro-nuts who actually believe that fighting pipelines is somehow benefiting their "fight" against the man-made climate change myth are truly the dupes here. Just so naïve!!

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 5:43 pm
by Ka-El
Cactusflower wrote: The small but vocal minority ...

... are not the ones supporting the pipeline

Do you consider yourself pro pipelines or pro environment?
o Pro pipelines 39%
o Pro environment 12%
o Both, if possible 43%

Do you think the oil sands are an important part of the Canadian economy?
o Yes 85%
o No 8%
o I don't know 7%

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/?ocid=iehp

Your arguments would be so much more credible if they weren't so easily disproven.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 8:31 pm
by Cactusflower
Ka-El wrote:
Cactusflower wrote: The small but vocal minority ...

... are not the ones supporting the pipeline

Do you consider yourself pro pipelines or pro environment?
o Pro pipelines 39%
o Pro environment 12%
o Both, if possible 43%

Do you think the oil sands are an important part of the Canadian economy?
o Yes 85%
o No 8%
o I don't know 7%

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/?ocid

Your arguments would be so much more credible if they weren't so easily disproven.


Those polls are as reputable as the ones here on Castanet. Surveys conducted by online news outlets are as biased as their readership.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 8:58 pm
by OKkayak
Cactusflower wrote:
Those polls are as reputable as the ones here on Castanet. Surveys conducted by online news outlets are as biased as their readership.

:spitcoffee:

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 3rd, 2018, 9:39 pm
by hobbyguy
Brerrabbit18 wrote:
There were conditions (couldnt close plants/lay people off) and they lasted up until 2015.

It was Justin Trudeau that just pressed for NAFTA to the cheers of many Canadians. He also just gave GM and other huge corporations 16 billion in tax cuts and rebates. He also just bought a giant oil pipeline.

Now every job is going to Mexico and people are surprised?

I guess everyone thought that Justin "standing up to Trump" in order to sign a free-trade-deal with a country that has a average salary of 5 dollars a day would work out for them?


First of all, there were no conditions on the "bailout". The Harper Government bought shares in GM, and because an election was coming up, sold them at a huge loss to "balance" the budget. Look it up.

Justin didn't open the NAFTA negotiations, Orangeboy did. The Tax cuts were in response to Orangeboy's dramatic Corporate tax slash, (leading the US to a historic deficit). The business community, as usual, decided they had better start complaining to get theirs. No new News there.

As far as GM moving to Mexico, no big surprise. Low wages=more Corporate profits, it's what business does.

Big business has been stealing from the Public coffers since time immemorial. Capitalist Socialism.


There is another factor in GM's need for plant closures that comes into play. T.Rump's stupid "nation security" steel and aluminum tariffs have taken $1 billion off GM's bottom line. Of course, now T.Rump is upset because GM has no choice but to close some plants. And of course, they are clsoing the highest cost plants, one in Canada and 4 in the US (none in Mexico....). So T.Rump saved a few steel plant jobs - maybe 1,000? Not sure. - but he is responsible, partially at least, for shipping 10,000 auto plant jobs to Mexico! Good thing T.Rump doesn't like Mexicans or it would be 50,000 auto jobs.

T.Rump has been shaking the tree, and mostly rotten apples are falling out.

I would also say, OK critic, what YOU have done faced with T.Rump and NAFTA going away, and the threat of auto tariffs?

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2018, 8:16 am
by Ka-El
Cactusflower wrote: Those polls are as reputable as the ones here on Castanet. Surveys conducted by online news outlets are as biased as their readership.

[icon_lol2.gif] Are you serious? This isn’t just one survey. In fact, survey after survey after survey shows most Canadians support pipeline expansion. Most Canadians are able to grasp just how important this pipeline is to our nation's economic growth, funding of social programs and infrastructure development, the protection of our environment (yes, pipelines are more environmentally friendly than the alternatives) and our economic sovereignty. Only people who believe in the ludicrous notion we are ready to move away from fossil fuel dependence (while hypocritically typing away on their smart phones) are being duped by the foreign interests that are trying to keep us economically dependent. You really need to better inform yourself on this issue.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2018, 1:37 pm
by dle
https://www.castanet.net/news/BC/243618 ... uin-it-all

On the oil issues in Alberta....

There seem to be good arguments on both sides of the coin for this one. However, if we want to continue to prosper as a Country, we have to do what we have to do to make and sustain jobs, all the while move our products as safely and environmentally friendly as we can.

There are NO guarantees of complete non-failure for any of the possible transport ideas so we have to pick the one least likely to a) happen, and b) if it does, cause the least amount of fall-out.

First Nations want to protect the earth and environment and that's wonderful, all for it, but we can't just say we are not doing it, period. The majority of First Nation leaders feel the pipeline IS the way to go - the safest - if we have to move it, which we do. We don't really hear about them though, we hear only of the detractor side, and that silly government we now have - the NDG's - born out of plotting behind their constituents' backs to railroad the Green votes over to a party they didn't vote for. They are playing strategies and it's all about the game to them instead of what we have to do - which is move that damn bitumen.

It would be awful if there were a tanker rupture in the straits but we have to move that oil, bitumen or not. Pipeline and ocean tanker travel is, from what I've read on the pros and cons, the safest, most reliable way. There are new ways to collect and contain a spill for water.

Can you imagine a train derailment? Oil seepage everywhere and it would get into the water tables and it would also be a disaster. Damage our farmlands, our drinking water, our animal habitats and forest vegetation. What solutions are there if that happens?

This isn't an issue of "let's just not do either, forget oil". That's neither realistic nor feasibly sound. Canada has to stick together on these issues in order to thrive - that means all of us be it First Nations, Albertans, BC'ers - all across the Provinces and the Territories- dare I even say it - Quebecois as well....we are all in this together and this is a MAJOR LIFE-CHANGING issue we are facing.

There are a lot of issues at play in our True North right now that have the potential to be catastrophic to our economy if we don't act on them immediately.

There are 2 sides to this coin, yes, and both sides have presented legitimate and compelling reasons why it should or shouldn't be moved but we have to break that barrier and join forces for the good of the Country.

Brand new state of the art pipeline is the least likely to rupture and therefore our best bet. Old rail lines and tankers are not.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2018, 7:56 pm
by Cactusflower
^^i appreciate your thoughtful comment, unlike so many on this site, but I have to disagree. We need to do what's best for the planet, not just one Canadian province, or even our whole country, if that's what you believe to be true.

Alberta knew from the get-go that it was a land-locked province, yet the government allowed industry to go ahead and over-develop the oil sands anyway without even considering that the other provinces might not be receptive to having diluted bitumen crossing their land and even worse, putting their coastal waters in extreme danger. Yes, extreme danger. We've all seen numerous incidents that have literally destroyed sea life for decades, sometimes forever.

Now, there isn't one oil company that won't admit that their industry is a huge factor in our rapidly changing climate. Sure, the naysayers continue to insist that the climate has always been changing, even before humans roamed the earth, but what they refuse to admit is that before the industrial revolution, the change in climatic conditions was measured in eons, not decades as it is now.

We can't let this happen. We have to fight for the generations who are going to inherit an unliveable planet. Those generations include our children and grandchildren.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2018, 8:28 pm
by Snman
Cactusflower wrote:^^i appreciate your thoughtful comment, unlike so many on this site, but I have to disagree. We need to do what's best for the planet, not just one Canadian province, or even our whole country, if that's what you believe to be true.

Alberta knew from the get-go that it was a land-locked province, yet the government allowed industry to go ahead and over-develop the oil sands anyway without even considering that the other provinces might not be receptive to having diluted bitumen crossing their land and even worse, putting their coastal waters in extreme danger. Yes, extreme danger. We've all seen numerous incidents that have literally destroyed sea life for decades, sometimes forever.

Now, there isn't one oil company that won't admit that their industry is a huge factor in our rapidly changing climate. Sure, the naysayers continue to insist that the climate has always been changing, even before humans roamed the earth, but what they refuse to admit is that before the industrial revolution, the change in climatic conditions was measured in eons, not decades as it is now.

We can't let this happen. We have to fight for the generations who are going to inherit an unliveable planet. Those generations include our children and grandchildren.


I used to think you were admirable for standing up for your beliefs, but now I realize you only care about what you want. Not at all what is best for your fellow man, or fellow Canadians, or even British Columbians. You want to stand apart as some sort of champion of the planet. You are full of you know what, and yourself. Sickening.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 4th, 2018, 8:37 pm
by Cactusflower
^^Whatever.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 5th, 2018, 8:20 am
by Ka-El
^^ You really need to better inform yourself on this issue.

Re: Support for Oil Patch Vow

PostPosted: Dec 5th, 2018, 8:38 am
by The Green Barbarian
Cactusflower wrote:
We can't let this happen. We have to fight for the generations who are going to inherit an unliveable planet. Those generations include our children and grandchildren.


Image

Fear-mongering nonsense.