Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Mordu » Dec 30th, 2018, 2:18 pm

Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

The Star

Warda Shazadi Meighen (explains why and from my view I agree with her)

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/contribu ... -mark.html

Canada has recently signed the United Nations Global Migration Pact. The need for a concerted global response to the issue of migration is long overdue. The international refugee system is based on an outdated understanding of mass migration formed in the aftermath of the Second World War.

Those arguing that this agreement will detract from Canadian sovereignty do not understand the nature of the pact, which is non-binding, or the migration issues facing us today.

Migrants are detained in Tripoli, Libya, in May 2017, as they attempt to make their way to Europe. The need for a concerted global response to the issue of migration is long overdue, lawyer Warda Shazadi Meighen writes. (Mohamed Ben Khalifa / The Associated Press file photo)

I recently returned from a disheartening makeshift refugee camp in Calais where I met children whose lives have been in limbo for years. I also met with exasperated French officials.

Most Western states signed on to the 1951 United Nations Refugee Convention and, in theory, agree with providing refuge for those in need. The current reality of immigration, however, is chaotic and unjust for both asylum seekers and host states alike. It results in painfully long periods of uncertainty for asylum seekers. It forces states to haphazardly respond to crises thrust upon them by the accident of their geography and the lack of action by other states.

Take the example of Germany. In 2015, it was left scrambling for a coherent immigration policy after accepting one million refugees who had arrived at its borders, in order to honour its international commitments. When met with opposition, the government veered reactively to the right, nearly collapsing on the way.

Immigration also increasingly involves national security concerns, which would be better addressed by a cohesive global approach. There are individuals who should not be permitted asylum. One of the goals of the Global Migration Pact is to share information among countries. Connected information systems can strengthen national security and dissuade criminals from seeking unwarranted sanctuary.

Protracted conflicts, the proliferation of useful technologies, and widespread access to migration have fundamentally altered the realities of global migration since the international refugee system came into place. To focus disproportionately upon siloed national sovereignty in the face of an issue of global dimensions is short-sighted.

Who does it serve? Not the refugees, driven from their own homes and wandering from place to place for years at a time in devastating conditions. Not the states scrambling to respond on an ad hoc basis with incomplete information about migrants.

There are valid questions about the Global Migration Pact. What does a non-binding agreement accomplish? How much does it cost Canadian taxpayers? What are the tangible benefits? What are the privacy concerns of sharing information between countries? What can we do to sidestep inevitable collective action problems between states?

Mass migration is not going away. To reject the notion of a global co-ordinated response to an issue so fundamentally global in nature distracts from the substantive questions we should be asking our government and addressing together.


GLOBAL COMPACT FOR SAFE, ORDERLY AND REGULAR MIGRATION

https://www.un.org/pga/72/wp-content/up ... ration.pdf
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 30th, 2018, 2:47 pm

It's illegal to criticize the global migration pact that Trudeau signed. If you criticize it, Trudeau can jail you for hate speech.

One basic element of this new agreement is the extension of the definition of hate speech.

“The agreement wants to criminalize migration speech. Criticism of migration will become a criminal offence.

“Media outlets that give room to criticism of migration can be shut down."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/10 ... hate-crime
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Mordu » Dec 30th, 2018, 4:13 pm

Here are the exemptions. Go ahead, have a try.

Canada Justice Laws Website

Defences

(3) No person shall be convicted of an offence under subsection (2)

(a) if he establishes that the statements communicated were true;

(b) if, in good faith, the person expressed or attempted to establish by an argument an opinion on a religious subject or an opinion based on a belief in a religious text;

(c) if the statements were relevant to any subject of public interest, the discussion of which was for the public benefit, and if on reasonable grounds he believed them to be true; or

(d) if, in good faith, he intended to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters producing or tending to produce feelings of hatred toward an identifiable group in Canada.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... n-319.html




GLOBAL COMPACT FOR SAFE, ORDERLY AND REGULAR MIGRATION

FINAL DRAFT

http://refugeesmigrants.un.org/sites/de ... raft_0.pdf

7. This Global Compact presents a non-legally binding, cooperative framework that builds on the commitments agreed upon by Member States in the New York Declaration for Refugees and Migrants. It fosters international cooperation among all relevant actors on migration, acknowledging that no State can address migration alone, and upholds the sovereignty of States and their obligations under international law.

. . .

OBJECTIVE 17: Eliminate all forms of discrimination and promote evidence-based public discourse to shape perceptions of migration

33. We commit to eliminate all forms of discrimination, condemn and counter expressions, acts and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, violence, xenophobia and related intolerance against all migrants in conformity with international human rights law. We further commit to promote an open and evidence-based public discourse on migration and migrants in partnership with all parts of society, that generates a more realistic, humane and constructive perception in this regard. We also commit to protect freedom of expression in accordance with international law, recognizing that an open and free debate contributes to a comprehensive understanding of all aspects of migration.

To realize this commitment, we will draw from the following actions:

a) Enact, implement or maintain legislation that penalizes hate crimes and aggravated hate crimes targeting migrants, and train law enforcement and other public officials to identify, prevent and respond to such crimes and other acts of violence that target migrants, as well as to provide medical, legal and psychosocial assistance for victims

b) Empower migrants and communities to denounce any acts of incitement to violence directed towards migrants by informing them of available mechanisms for redress, and ensure that those who actively participate in the commission of a hate crime targeting migrants are held accountable, in accordance with national legislation, while upholding international human rights law, in particular the right to freedom of expression

c) Promote independent, objective and quality reporting of media outlets, including internet-based information, including by sensitizing and educating media professionals on migration-related issues and terminology, investing in ethical reporting standards and advertising, and stopping allocation of public funding or material support to media outlets that systematically promote intolerance, xenophobia, racism and other forms of discrimination towards migrants, in full respect for the freedom of the media

d) Establish mechanisms to prevent, detect and respond to racial, ethnic and religious profiling of migrants by public authorities, as well as systematic instances of intolerance, xenophobia, racism and all other multiple and intersecting forms of discrimination in partnership with National Human Rights Institutions, including by tracking and publishing trends analyses, and ensuring access to effective complaint and redress mechanisms

e) Provide migrants, especially migrant women, with access to national and regional complaint and redress mechanisms with a view to promoting accountability and addressing governmental actions related to discriminatory acts and manifestations carried out against migrants and their families

f) Promote awareness-raising campaigns targeted at communities of origin, transit and destination in order to inform public perceptions regarding the positive contributions of safe, orderly and regular migration, based on evidence and facts, and to end racism, xenophobia and stigmatization against all migrants

g) Engage migrants, political, religious and community leaders, as well as educators and service providers to detect and prevent incidences of intolerance, racism, xenophobia, and other forms of discrimination against migrants and diasporas and support activities in local communities to promote mutual respect, including in the context of electoral campaigns
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby d0nb » Dec 30th, 2018, 4:52 pm

As with her defense of Trudeau's Omar Khadr payout, Meighen’s position on most issues is antithetical to the interests of Canadians.

To focus disproportionately upon siloed national sovereignty in the face of an issue of global dimensions is short-sighted.


Meh, sovereignty, who needs it? The more of it we cede to the UN, the better. :smt045

There are valid questions about the Global Migration Pact. What does a non-binding agreement accomplish? How much does it cost Canadian taxpayers? What are the tangible benefits? What are the privacy concerns of sharing information between countries? What can we do to sidestep inevitable collective action problems between states?


What kind of an idiot would sign an agreement without having the answers to such obvious questions? :200:

trudope.jpg

Oh, never mind. :138:

Those arguing that this agreement will detract from Canadian sovereignty do not understand the nature of the pact, which is non-binding, or the migration issues facing us today.


So the agreement will only detract from our "siloed" national sovereignty? What a relief.

Thank goodness we have people like Meighen and Trudeau to think these things through for us. :smt045
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 30th, 2018, 5:35 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:It's illegal to criticize the global migration pact that Trudeau signed. If you criticize it, Trudeau can jail you for hate speech.

One basic element of this new agreement is the extension of the definition of hate speech.

“The agreement wants to criminalize migration speech. Criticism of migration will become a criminal offence.

“Media outlets that give room to criticism of migration can be shut down."

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/10 ... hate-crime


It is NOT a treaty, nobody "signed". It is NOT binding and if you actually bothered to read it, you would know that. It is a statement of intentions, nothing more, and is to be used as a guideline for future policy where it suits the individual countries involved and where it lines up with their constitutions. http://undocs.org/en/A/CONF.231/3

Get out of the ARNF echo chamber and actually read it, it specifies better record keeping/sharing for the vetting of potential immigrants and refugees. Why are you against that? It specifies better documentation for passports and immigration documents - ones that can be trusted. Why are you against that??? It intends to combat human trafficking and irregular migration. Why are you against that??

And NO, there is nothing in there that backs up your false premise about being jailed for hate speech for discussing immigration - although such hate speech laws have been on the books forever in Canada. Your premise is flat out wrong and incorrect to boot. One can freely discuss immigration issues in Canada without legal repercussions - as long as you stay away from the long standing hate speech laws. That doesn't suit the ARNF groups, so they are madly ginning false garbage.

Best to stay away from the ARNF.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 30th, 2018, 5:48 pm

d0nb wrote:As with her defense of Trudeau's Omar Khadr payout, Meighen’s position on most issues is antithetical to the interests of Canadians.

To focus disproportionately upon siloed national sovereignty in the face of an issue of global dimensions is short-sighted.


Meh, sovereignty, who needs it? The more of it we cede to the UN, the better. :smt045

There are valid questions about the Global Migration Pact. What does a non-binding agreement accomplish? How much does it cost Canadian taxpayers? What are the tangible benefits? What are the privacy concerns of sharing information between countries? What can we do to sidestep inevitable collective action problems between states?


What kind of an idiot would sign an agreement without having the answers to such obvious questions? :200:

trudope.jpg

Oh, never mind. :138:

Those arguing that this agreement will detract from Canadian sovereignty do not understand the nature of the pact, which is non-binding, or the migration issues facing us today.


So the agreement will only detract from our "siloed" national sovereignty? What a relief.

Thank goodness we have people like Meighen and Trudeau to think these things through for us. :smt045


That is not a valid position. You ought to know it. It only serves to make the ARNF feel good. There is precisely ZERO impact our national sovereignty.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby d0nb » Dec 30th, 2018, 5:57 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
It is NOT a treaty, nobody "signed". It is NOT binding and if you actually bothered to read it, you would know that.


So Meighen is wrong when she says, "Canada has recently signed the United Nations Global Migration Pact."

Good to know.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby d0nb » Dec 30th, 2018, 6:09 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
That is not a valid position. You ought to know it. It only serves to make the ARNF feel good. There is precisely ZERO impact our national sovereignty.


Inclusion in any international agreement has an effect on Canada’s sovereignty. Committing to one as open-ended as this one, especially in light of its possible influence on future court decisions is ill-considered at best.

Australia, the US and others got it right this time.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Gone_Fishin » Dec 30th, 2018, 6:49 pm

hobbyguy wrote:It is NOT a treaty, nobody "signed". It is NOT binding and if you actually bothered to read it, you would know that. It is a statement of intentions, nothing more, and is to be used as a guideline for future policy where it suits the individual countries involved and where it lines up with their constitutions. http://undocs.org/en/A/CONF.231/3


The Paris Agreement wasn't binding, either. How many billion dollars has that cost Canadians? For a non-binding agreement, I've sure paid through the nose for it. Since it's non-binding, can I have my money back?
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby hobbyguy » Dec 30th, 2018, 8:25 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:It is NOT a treaty, nobody "signed". It is NOT binding and if you actually bothered to read it, you would know that. It is a statement of intentions, nothing more, and is to be used as a guideline for future policy where it suits the individual countries involved and where it lines up with their constitutions. http://undocs.org/en/A/CONF.231/3


The Paris Agreement wasn't binding, either. How many billion dollars has that cost Canadians? For a non-binding agreement, I've sure paid through the nose for it. Since it's non-binding, can I have my money back?


You guys are trying make something out of nothing. Would you rather have people immigrate in a safe, orderly and well documented fashion - or the T.Rump gong show? There is nothing in this pact that requires ratification. It is NOT a treaty - essentially we have agreed to a set of general guidelines. Big whoop!

But carry on, support the ARNF who want to spread disinformation.

But fer cryin' out loud read it first. You will find a lot in there that benefits Canada and nothing that is against our interests. The disinformation being spread relies on your ignorance. So do read it, don't let the ARNF lead you by the nose.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Mordu » Dec 31st, 2018, 6:35 am

From the CBC article at the bottom:

"'Scheer ... is factually incorrect: This Compact is a political declaration, not a legally binding treaty'"


Still Scheer gets this right in my view:
"Canadians, and Canadians alone, should make decisions on who comes in our country and under what circumstances."


And that’s how it should and will remain under the Compact, right Andy? (https://www.cicnews.com/2018/12/trudeau ... gs.PKQ=DpM)

But Scheer gets the following wrong in the view of a former Harper Government minister, as well as in my view:
Scheer said that by signing the compact, Canada would open the door to foreign bureaucrats directing its immigration policy.

"It gives influence over Canada's immigration system to foreign entities. It attempts to influence how our free and independent media report on immigration issues and it could open the door to foreign bureaucrats telling Canada how to manage our borders," Scheer said.

. . .

Chris Alexander, who once held the (immigration) post of under Harper, pushed back against Scheer's claim on social media.

"Scheer's statement is factually incorrect: This Compact is a political declaration, not a legally binding treaty. It has no impact on our sovereignty," he wrote on Twitter. . . .

(Ex-Harper immigration minister calls out Scheer over 'factually incorrect' statements on UN migration pact

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/alexand ... -1.4932698)
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Smurf » Dec 31st, 2018, 7:05 am

It will be binding with the crowd we have in charge right now. They cannot think for themselves and will bow to anything if they (Trudeau especially) thinks it will make him look good on the world stage. He keeps trying to make us a leader, usually in a bad way. Has a real tendency to make himself and us look like fools. India probably never wants to see him again, not even as a comedy act.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Mordu » Dec 31st, 2018, 7:52 am

Like I said, I think Andy got the 'decisions' part right.

And in my opinion he did so well when he visited us in Nisku for the pipeline rally.

http://globalnews.ca/video/4778483/cana ... -you-sheer

Still, I’m confused as to why he would want to misinform people on the Migration Compact.

Because the Canadian right-wing base sure seems to be swallowing it up and spreading it around; leaving those of us who dislike ‘Trumpism’ showing up in Canada having to try to clean up the mess.

It’s sad. :cry:
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby Mordu » Dec 31st, 2018, 8:07 am

For instance, my post at viewtopic.php?f=84&t=80570&start=240#p2433858

My kind of Alberta movement. :up:

A reference from the Castanet article “Pro-pipeline Rally’s Grow,”

“The (facebook) page stresses that the event is not connected to the so-called yellow vest campaign (correct), which also advocates for pipelines but is associated with opposition to Canada signing the United Nations migration pact (paraphrased from comments in the facebook discussion).” (https://www.castanet.net/edition/news-s ... htm#245604)

Rally 4 Resources - The Movement and Canada Action (facebook page)

http://www.facebook.com/events/2411369865558269/

We only have one focus and our messaging is clear. That's on Canadian energy. It won't be combined with any others.

To be clear, we take issue with bad policies put forward by Justin Trudeau’s government, but we do not favour any political party. This movement is about supporting our families. This movement is non-partisan, not connected to yellow vest, or any other campaign, and is based on a positive, respectful dialogue to move Canada forward. We expect there to be MP's from both major political parties, MPP's from Ontario, union and trades workers from multiple natural resource sectors, etc. This is about unifying Canadians and building our future.
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Re: Criticism of the Global Migration Pact misses the mark

Postby The Green Barbarian » Dec 31st, 2018, 8:46 am

d0nb wrote:
So Meighen is wrong when she says, "Canada has recently signed the United Nations Global Migration Pact."

Good to know.


LOL - that was awesome. These Liberal peanut-chuckers just keep looking worse and worse when trying to defend the PM's love affair with the morally bankrupt UN.
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