It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby Pete Podoski » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:19 am

92% of families face tax hike of over $2,200 beginning in 2019


According to a new report by the Fraser Institute, more than 92.2% of Canadian families will pay higher taxes once the Canada Pension Plan tax increases are fully implemented by 2025.

The first of seven increases to CPP tax, which all working individuals must pay, begins in 2019.

The study’s co-author, Charles Lammam, broke down the tax fairly well:

“Canadian families will endure a significant tax increase and that tax bill will increase over time. The Trudeau government has talked a lot about cutting taxes for families. Based on the personal income tax changes they’ve already put in the case, we’ve found that’s not true for the vast majority of middle-class families.”

She furthermore broke down the projected cost to most families:

“We found that, plus what has already been implemented, will result in over 92% of all families with children in Canada paying higher taxes and they’ll be paying on average $2,200 more per year.”

{Snip}

This $2,200 is also not the only fee or heavy cost that Canadians are dealing with.

Compounded with the effects of the carbon tax, increases on interest rates caused by government overspending, and high housing costs nationwide, it’s no wonder Canadians are tired of our tax and spend government.


https://www.thepostmillennial.com/92-of ... ng-in-2019
I don't know what makes Justin so incredibly stupid, but it really works.

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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby gman313 » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:27 am

Agreed - however CPP is not a tax

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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby JagXKR » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:27 am

The summary of the report from the source.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies ... ayroll-tax

Since coming into office, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s government has repeatedly claimed to have reduced taxes for middle class Canadian families—a claim based solely on the federal government’s reduction to the second lowest personal income tax rate from 22 to 20.5 percent. However, a recent study found that when all the Trudeau government’s major changes to the personal income tax system are properly accounted for (including the elimina­tion of income splitting and other tax credits), income taxes have been raised, not lowered, on the vast majority (81 percent) of middle income Canadian families.


I know for a fact mine have gone up, not down.
Lying boy king *bleep* joke of a leader. JT needs to go.
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby floppi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:38 am

Pete Podoski wrote:92% of families face tax hike of over $2,200 beginning in 2019


According to a new report by the Fraser Institute, more than 92.2% of Canadian families will pay higher taxes once the Canada Pension Plan tax increases are fully implemented by 2025.

The first of seven increases to CPP tax, which all working individuals must pay, begins in 2019.

The study’s co-author, Charles Lammam, broke down the tax fairly well:

“Canadian families will endure a significant tax increase and that tax bill will increase over time. The Trudeau government has talked a lot about cutting taxes for families. Based on the personal income tax changes they’ve already put in the case, we’ve found that’s not true for the vast majority of middle-class families.”

She furthermore broke down the projected cost to most families:

“We found that, plus what has already been implemented, will result in over 92% of all families with children in Canada paying higher taxes and they’ll be paying on average $2,200 more per year.”

{Snip}

This $2,200 is also not the only fee or heavy cost that Canadians are dealing with.

Compounded with the effects of the carbon tax, increases on interest rates caused by government overspending, and high housing costs nationwide, it’s no wonder Canadians are tired of our tax and spend government.


https://www.thepostmillennial.com/92-of ... ng-in-2019


You guys know the underlying reason for this? Prob not hey? As it stands now CPP can't fund itself become we lack workers to fund the Ponzi Scheme that is the CPP. Why do you think the Frazier Institute proposed that the immigration rate be increased to over 450,000 immigrants per year?......it's for this very reason. Aren't you the same guys whining about the numbers of immigrants coming into Canada? Now you're whining about the solution to funding the CPP because we don't have enought workers to fund the the peeps that are retired or retiring.

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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:43 am

This entire CPP issue would be solved if those darn Leftists would just start paying women equitably. Close the gender pay gap and the CPP is funded. Come on Leftists, start paying women the same as men!!!
All evidence points to the snollygoster scown Justin Trudeau being unfit to run this country. The LIEberal platform is all foofrah. Don't be fooled by the LIEberal decepticons. October 2019 can't come fast enough.

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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby LTD » Jan 2nd, 2019, 10:57 am

ponzi scheme lol
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby Pete Podoski » Jan 2nd, 2019, 12:08 pm

floppi wrote:You guys know the underlying reason for this? Prob not hey? As it stands now CPP can't fund itself become we lack workers to fund the Ponzi Scheme that is the CPP. Why do you think the Frazier Institute proposed that the immigration rate be increased to over 450,000 immigrants per year?......it's for this very reason. Aren't you the same guys whining about the numbers of immigrants coming into Canada? Now you're whining about the solution to funding the CPP because we don't have enought workers to fund the the peeps that are retired or retiring.


What's the cost of an open border compared to a bump in the O.A.S. to bring pension earnings up a bit?

Keep in mind, the Fraser Institute (I don't know what the Frazier Institute is) calculated that recent immigrants pose a $20 - $28 billion annual cost on Canadian taxpayers in 2010 up to $27 - $35 billion in 2014. Lord knows what it is now with the mass influx Trudeau has allowed. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies ... da-in-2014

I don't think you've thought that one through. How much could we raise O.A.S. with $35 billion per year (and rising) to spend?
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby floppi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 12:26 pm

LTD wrote:ponzi scheme lol


CPP skeptics generally call it a ponzi scheme. A ponzi or pyramid scheme is an investing scam that uses money from newly acquired investors to pay returns to older investors. The scheme works only as long as the fraudsters are able to bring in fresh money by duping new clients. When that no longer works, the whole thing typically comes crashing down.

It’s easy to see the analogy between a ponzi scheme and most government pension plans, which generally use contributions from workers to pay retirees. Theoretically, governments, unlike private companies, could keep that going as long as there are new generations entering the labour force. The trouble with that, though, is that people don’t necessarily reproduce at a steady rate.

Many Western countries have been grappling with the tsunami of baby boomers who are starting to retire, leaving behind a smaller pool of younger workers. The U.S., to cite just one example, may have to start trimming back Social Security benefits as early as 2034, according to official projections.


https://globalnews.ca/news/4055668/real ... etirement/

https://nationalpost.com/news/is-the-cp ... 35437aef85
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby floppi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 12:35 pm

Pete Podoski wrote:
floppi wrote:You guys know the underlying reason for this? Prob not hey? As it stands now CPP can't fund itself become we lack workers to fund the Ponzi Scheme that is the CPP. Why do you think the Frazier Institute proposed that the immigration rate be increased to over 450,000 immigrants per year?......it's for this very reason. Aren't you the same guys whining about the numbers of immigrants coming into Canada? Now you're whining about the solution to funding the CPP because we don't have enought workers to fund the the peeps that are retired or retiring.


What's the cost of an open border compared to a bump in the O.A.S. to bring pension earnings up a bit?

Keep in mind, the Fraser Institute (I don't know what the Frazier Institute is) calculated that recent immigrants pose a $20 - $28 billion annual cost on Canadian taxpayers in 2010 up to $27 - $35 billion in 2014. Lord knows what it is now with the mass influx Trudeau has allowed. https://www.fraserinstitute.org/studies ... da-in-2014

I don't think you've thought that one through. How much could we raise O.A.S. with $35 billion per year (and rising) to spend?


[icon_lol2.gif]

Anyone who looked at the report more closely would find false claims, deliberately misleading arguments, a naive understanding of global migration trends, and evident ignorance of what informs Canada’s immigration priorities. The report is so poor and illogical that it cannot be taken seriously as contributing to public debates about policy reform in the domain of immigration.

The report bases its conclusions on a study of recent immigrants to Canada between 1986-2004, whose average incomes and thus contributions to the Canadian tax base are allegedly lower than non-immigrant Canadians. The report claims that each immigrant presents an average net drain of $6,329 per year, and thus if we multiply this number by the 4.2 million immigrants in the country who arrived between 1987 and 2010, the annual “cost” to Canadians is $26 billion.


https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2013/09/12/F ... ts-Costly/

ETA: Here's another detailed pdf debunking the misleading FraSER Institute's immigration costs.

http://torontonorthlip.ca/sites/toronto ... -final.pdf
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby Catsumi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 1:43 pm

Haha. Like all the immigrants and refugees are going to start productive jobs immediately and not cost us a bundle.

MASSIVE influx of peeps doesn't work,very costly and social suicide for host countries. Look at Europe where it has been a flop.

Controlled, smaller numbers that we can handle are one thing but to believe huge numbers will solve our problems is just plain silly and juvenile thinking.
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby floppi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 1:46 pm

Catsumi wrote:Haha. Like all the immigrants and refugees are going to start productive jobs immediately and not cost us a bundle.

MASSIVE influx of peeps doesn't work,very costly and social suicide for host countries. Look at Europe where it has been a flop.

Controlled, smaller numbers that we can handle are one thing but to believe huge numbers will solve our problems is just plain silly and juvenile thinking.


Then you should expect to get your old age benefits cut and put in more for things like CPP and OAS.
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 2nd, 2019, 1:54 pm

Good grief. The old "CPP" is a Ponzi scheme right wing myth.

First off, I have been hearing that nonsense about CPP being a "Ponzi" scheme and not being there for you when you retire for 50 years. Funny thing - it is in fact still there, solid and on a firm footing. Funny thing, it is paying me regularly as promised, and is indexed to the CPI (any other guaranteed investment out there you can name that is indexed to the CPI??? No.).

There are two key points about the CPP as part of your retirement plans that constantly overlooked by the naysaying right wingers. The first is the guaranteed part. The only other guaranteed investment out there is GICs. A solid proportion of any portfolio should be in guaranteed investments (at least for 80%+ of us). When you compare the CPP to GICs or even annuities (not as well guaranteed) - it is a really good deal for a guaranteed investment. The second part of CPP that is constantly overlooked is the aforementioned indexing to the CPI. Because of that indexing, and delayed pay out (you don't "see" a return when you are contributing) overlooking that CPI indexing is easy to ignore, but it is a key extra return on your investment.

So, if you take your CPP investment as part of the small c conservative portion of your portfolio, it is the best deal going - period. It has the plus as well of providing a survivor benefit for couples, which lowers their joint requirement for retirement savings.

You can then look at the remainder of your investments for retirement in a proper light, and with OAS (unless you are high income) you have a small c conservative base to work from. That means that IF it is suitable for you personally, you have the option of investing more aggressively with the balance of your retirement investments, thus yielding a higher return on that more aggressive and less small c conservative portion of your portfolio. Factoring that in, the extra ability to invest aggressively (if you so choose - and carefully) is an extra return afforded to you by your CPP contributions.

It is also comforting for most Canadians to that if "the stuff hits the fan" - you will always have CPP + OAS to fall back on. Yup, CPP + OAS ain't enough to satisfy most, but you ain't gonna starve. For a typical working couple it will be around $2,400 per month in today's $$.

And yes, CPP is solid and it ain't going broke: https://business.financialpost.com/personal-finance/no-reason-to-fear-cpps-stability-ceo-machin-says-but-people-do-it-anyway and https://www.thetelegram.com/business/canada-pension-plan-is-safe-and-strong-ceo-193646/ The Conservatives had the reigns for their bungle decade, and made no significant changes to CPP - because it is sound and is in the interest of average Canadians (80%+ of us) to have CPP.

CPP is NOT a tax. It is a basic investment trustworthy in your future. Only the right wing ATWs could possibly view CPP as a tax, and they do so incorrectly.

Why do the right wing ATWs try to say CPP is a tax? Because without CPP investments being misconstrued as tax - their phony "big tax increase" nonsense falls apart. My question to the right wing ATWs: Why do you hate average Canadians so much that you would undermine their retirements?
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 2nd, 2019, 2:06 pm

I notice the ARNF meme of immigrants "costing" us - which of course is a load of road apples.

We ARE a nation of immigrants. I live in a neighborhood with many immigrants, and it is low crime, and a great place to live. Every day I see them heading off to work, to school etc. and pursuing the Canadian dream.

Time to put that childish ARNF meme away folks. It simply isn't true. It is losers trying to blame their life incompetence on anyone but themselves and trying to make themselves feel better by disrespecting others.

Immigration is fundamental to maintaining our prosperity. I welcome immigrants, and I am sure I am not alone. https://globalnews.ca/news/4211243/immigration-canadian-economy/
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby floppi » Jan 2nd, 2019, 3:18 pm

hobbyguy wrote:Good grief. The old "CPP" is a Ponzi scheme right wing myth.

First off, I have been hearing that nonsense about CPP being a "Ponzi" scheme and not being there for you when you retire for 50 years. Funny thing - it is in fact still there, solid and on a firm footing. Funny thing, it is paying me regularly as promised, and is indexed to the CPI (any other guaranteed investment out there you can name that is indexed to the CPI??? No.).


I'm not sure about CPP is a Ponzi scheme as a right wing diatribe or not but I do know in the 1990's there were more money going out of the CPP fund then coming in. That kinda equation doesn't work out too well. I'm not right wing nut or anything but I can see similarities in how the CPP is funded and a Ponzi scheme :D . I believe CPP is mandated for review every 3 years to tweek the system as to avoid what happened in the '90's.....hence the bump up in as the OP called it "taxes" [icon_lol2.gif]

The CPP started out in 1966 as a pay-as-you-go system not unlike a Ponzi scheme; the contributions being made by younger workers were being used to pay the benefits of older workers. The problem of funding the benefits of those younger workers as they aged was continually kicked further down the road. As long as enough young people were coming into the work force, the CPP would remain viable.

The trouble is that the work force was slowly maturing. The number of workers per retiree has been dropping continuously since the 1960s and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. And that is not the only demographic problem. A falling birth rate and ever-increasing life spans have both put a further strain on the system. To make matters worse, the CPP assets were being lent out at below-market interest rates to the provincial governments to be used as they saw fit.

In 1993, the chief actuary of the CPP predicted that the CPP fund would be exhausted by 2015 unless action was taken. He also estimated that if pension promises continued to be funded on a pay-as-you-go basis, the contribution rate would need to rise by 2030 to 14.2 per cent of covered pay. By comparison, the actual contribution rate from inception until the 1980s was just 3.6 per cent of pay.

According to Paul McCrossan, a former Tory MP who handled the CPP file starting in the mid-1980s, the government of the day had become aware of the problem but also realized there was no easy way to fix it. Fortunately for us, it succeeded. It was a bipartisan effort that took 20 years to accomplish and involved four basic steps.

The first step was to ramp up the immigration rate and to give priority to younger independent immigrants rather than older family members. Remember, the CPP was a quasi-Ponzi scheme so an influx of younger immigrants helped to stabilize CPP costs. Canada has had a higher immigration rate ever since the 1980s and this is one reason why that policy has to continue.

The second step was to trim benefits such as CPP disability benefits and the earnings base used to calculate pensions. This measure saved considerable money and since the changes were rather technical, they flew below the radar, thus avoiding a public outcry.

The third step was to get the government out of the business of investing the CPP fund. The CPPIB was created in 1997 as a body that operates at arm's length from the federal and provincial governments. Its mandate has been, and continues to be, to achieve the best possible return for the fund for a given level of risk. In this regard, it has generally succeeded by investing in large infrastructure projects and private equity around the globe.

The final step was to change the pay-as-you-go funding method. This was the tricky part. Clearly, a contribution rate of 3.6 per cent of pay wasn't going to be enough but there was no way that Canadians would tolerate the 14.2-per-cent contribution rate that would eventually be needed. The Chief Actuary had determined that gradually raising the contribution rate to 9.9 per cent would stabilize the fund. With 9.9 per cent going in, the CPP assets could continue to grow for decades to come. Anything less and the fund would eventually dry up, while anything more would be unfair to the current generation of contributors. The CPP chief actuary calls this funding formula "steady-state funding."


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-i ... e37412941/
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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 2nd, 2019, 3:58 pm

CPP is not a Ponzi scheme, but it is a thing that short sighted folks and a few greedy business scammer folks (the Kevin O'Leery types) don't like.

That particular Fraser Institute op-ed is sooo far off the mark and grasping for at any obvious partisan straw it is ridiculous.

At the end the clown ridiculously tries to say that interest rates are going up because of government overspending. Of course that is horse puckey. Interest rates are going up because they need to be normalized after Harper's policies forced them to be ridiculously low for far too long. Poloz has been wanting to move interest rates up for a long time, and couldn't do so because of Harper's bungle decade policies. Now Poloz and the BOC have the room to move the interest rates up a bit because the current policy environment has the economy with the lowest unemployment in decades and on a solid footing despite T.Rump idionomics.

The desperation from the far right at the Fraser Institute is palpable.

Low unemployment. Decent economic growth. A solid economic forecast (but not spectacular) for 2019. New business opportunities opening up from CPTPP and CETA in 2019. The economy is diversifying giving more opportunities to people in their home provinces.

Nothing real to whine about, so the far right is down to inventing stuff and nonsense and telling porkies.
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