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Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 2nd, 2019, 9:20 pm
by Gone_Fishin
hobbyguy wrote:CPP is not a Ponzi scheme, but it is a thing that short sighted folks and a few greedy business scammer folks (the Kevin O'Leery types) don't like.

That particular Fraser Institute op-ed is sooo far off the mark and grasping for at any obvious partisan straw it is ridiculous.

At the end the clown ridiculously tries to say that interest rates are going up because of government overspending. Of course that is horse puckey. Interest rates are going up because they need to be normalized after Harper's policies forced them to be ridiculously low for far too long. Poloz has been wanting to move interest rates up for a long time, and couldn't do so because of Harper's bungle decade policies. Now Poloz and the BOC have the room to move the interest rates up a bit because the current policy environment has the economy with the lowest unemployment in decades and on a solid footing despite T.Rump idionomics.

The desperation from the far right at the Fraser Institute is palpable.

Low unemployment. Decent economic growth. A solid economic forecast (but not spectacular) for 2019. New business opportunities opening up from CPTPP and CETA in 2019. The economy is diversifying giving more opportunities to people in their home provinces.

Nothing real to whine about, so the far right is down to inventing stuff and nonsense and telling porkies.


What formal education in economics and finance do you have to dispute what the authors of the report, all of whom are well-respected professional economists, are saying? Unless you have a doctorate, you lose.


Hugh MacIntyre is a Senior Policy Analyst at the Fraser Institute. He holds an M.Sc. in Political Science from the University of Edinburgh, a Post Baccalaureate Diploma in Economics from Simon Fraser University, and an Honours B.A. from the University of Toronto.

Milagros Palacios is the Associate Director for the Addington Centre for Measurement at the Fraser Institute. She holds a B.S. in Industrial Engineering from the Pontifical Catholic University of Peru and a M.Sc. in Economics from the University of Concepcion, Chile.

Charles Lammam
Director of Policy Toronto, Ontario, CanadaPublic Policy
Current
Office of Ontario's Deputy Premier & Minister of Health and Long-term Care, Lammam Analytics
Previous
Ontario 360 Initiative at University of Toronto's Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, The Fraser Institute
Education
Master of Public Policy, Bachelor of Economics

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 2nd, 2019, 11:41 pm
by K_teela
Gone_Fishin wrote:What formal education in economics and finance do you have to dispute what the authors of the report, all of whom are well-respected professional economists, are saying? Unless you have a doctorate, you lose.


Hugh MacIntyre is a Senior Policy Analyst at the Fraser Institute. He holds an M.Sc. in Political Science from the University of Edinburgh, a Post Baccalaureate Diploma in Economics from Simon Fraser University, and an Honours B.A. from the University of Toronto.

Milagros Palacios is the Associate Director for the Addington Centre for Measurement at the Fraser Institute. She holds a B.S. in Industrial Engineering from the Pontifical Catholic University of Peru and a M.Sc. in Economics from the University of Concepcion, Chile.

Charles Lammam
Director of Policy Toronto, Ontario, CanadaPublic Policy
Current
Office of Ontario's Deputy Premier & Minister of Health and Long-term Care, Lammam Analytics
Previous
Ontario 360 Initiative at University of Toronto's Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, The Fraser Institute
Education
Master of Public Policy, Bachelor of Economics


Having education and titles does not mean someone can't attempt to mislead. The 'Fraser institute' is constantly being debunked and proven wrong. The reason they do it? Well that article shows exactly why.

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The 'information' does not even show what their numbers are coming from - the fact that they are attempting to calculate the CPP changes as a "tax" should be enough proof to you that they're manipulating information.

The "dramatic" CPP increase for 2019? Well they Max pensionable earnings was increased from $53,900 to $57,400 - and max employee contribution went up from $2593.80 to $2748.90 for a "dramatic" increase of $155.1 a year (essentially the cost of a netflix subscription...or amazon prime) for those making $57k+ for 2019.

So where is the $2,218 more coming from? That extra $155.1 from CPP isnt even a tax. Why don't they provide their numbers? Where is there information from? They're just telling you numbers and you're taking it at face value because it fits your narrative.

Why isn't the Fraser Institute actually telling you where their information comes from? I remember another article posted from them awhile ago - how they chose to calculate the loss of the 'taxable child benefits' that the federal Libs removed and replaced with the Canada Child benefit - a tax free payment. However they did not want to factor in the 'Canada child benefits' into their calculations - now why would they do that? It also looks like they're factoring that into this articles calculations as well without telling you.

This report measures the impact of the fed­eral government’s personal income tax chang­es and the fully implemented CPP payroll tax increase on the amount of taxes that Canadian families will pay. (A family is defined as a parent or parents with a child or children under age 18.) It finds that once fully implemented, virtually all (98.8 percent) of middle income Canadian fami­lies with children (with incomes ranging from $77,839 to $110,201) will pay higher taxes. And they will pay, on average, $2,260 more tax each year.


How the carbon tax even works is handled at a provincial level anyways - and a lot of it will be rebated back to households. BC has has a carbon tax for years - and nothing is even changing for us. For example Ontario families will probably pay an extra $244 per year (extra tax on gas, etc) - however the rebate is expected to be around $300 per year. %90 of the carbon tax revenue will be returned to households, not governments in the province they were generated. The other 10% will go to sectors like schools/hospitals/small businesses/colleges and indigenous communities.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-canadas-carbon-tax-a-guide/

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2018/oct/26/canada-passed-a-carbon-tax-that-will-give-most-canadians-more-money

Information is easy to find you just need to be open to looking for it - here's a source from financialpost, which a lot of the Conservative base here tend to post articles from - so I know you'll find them credible

https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/federal-carbon-tax-rebates-will-exceed-the-cost-for-most-people-affected

So yes, Hugh may have a degree in political science - but that does not mean that he's an honest person. And a lot of you are falling for it...but hey remember! Feel free to join

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Help independent journalism thrive. Join our membership. Also get a free copy of Stephen Harper’s latest book, “Right Here Right Now."


if you like what they're selling.

If you can come up with a comprehensive list of where Fraser Institute is getting their numbers from - feel free to share. However to most people that are capable of doing their own research, it's easy to see that the Fraser Institute often tries to mislead. Not all the time, but certainly in a lot of the 'articles' that get posted around here. They're a right-wing think tank trying to sell their base a product
Please donate to our cause
.

https://vancouversun.com/news/politics/daphne-bramham-lessons-for-canada-from-how-the-koch-brothers-hijacked-democracy

And the Koch brothers are connected to Canada as the largest foreign investors in Alberta’s oilsands and as donors to the Fraser Institute, which has reportedly received $765,000 from them in the last decade.


https://pressprogress.ca/dont-listen-to-the-fraser-institute-canadians-are-not-paying-more-in-taxes-than-the-necessities-of-life/

https://north99.org/2018/12/28/this-twitter-user-debunks-andrew-scheer-and-the-fraser-institute-using-simple-math/

https://pressprogress.ca/that_time_a_bc_supreme_court_justice_said_the_fraser_institute_school_rankings_are_not_reliable/

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 10:29 am
by floppi
Ouch... :up:

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 12:21 pm
by jimmy4321
[icon_lol2.gif] Lol

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 12:30 pm
by The Green Barbarian
K_teela wrote:
And the Koch brothers are connected to Canada as the largest foreign investors in Alberta’s oilsands


are not the Chinese by far the largest foreign investors in the oil sands? I don't get this reference, or what it has to do with the information that the Fraser Institute is putting out. Why are you attacking the messenger and not the message?

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 12:50 pm
by Chyren
Just for the record having a pension is a good thing right?

Put away the money today for use tomorrow. How is this a bad thing?

Imagine NOT having a CPP?

You'll be happy you paid into it once you need it. It isn't much but it is the only income for many.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 12:51 pm
by burnedatstake
the fraser institute has been proven again and again to mislead and cherry pick their chosen facts. as such i am shocked people buy into their *bleep*.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 1:39 pm
by hobbyguy
Gone_Fishin wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:CPP is not a Ponzi scheme, but it is a thing that short sighted folks and a few greedy business scammer folks (the Kevin O'Leery types) don't like.

That particular Fraser Institute op-ed is sooo far off the mark and grasping for at any obvious partisan straw it is ridiculous.

At the end the clown ridiculously tries to say that interest rates are going up because of government overspending. Of course that is horse puckey. Interest rates are going up because they need to be normalized after Harper's policies forced them to be ridiculously low for far too long. Poloz has been wanting to move interest rates up for a long time, and couldn't do so because of Harper's bungle decade policies. Now Poloz and the BOC have the room to move the interest rates up a bit because the current policy environment has the economy with the lowest unemployment in decades and on a solid footing despite T.Rump idionomics.

The desperation from the far right at the Fraser Institute is palpable.

Low unemployment. Decent economic growth. A solid economic forecast (but not spectacular) for 2019. New business opportunities opening up from CPTPP and CETA in 2019. The economy is diversifying giving more opportunities to people in their home provinces.

Nothing real to whine about, so the far right is down to inventing stuff and nonsense and telling porkies.


What formal education in economics and finance do you have to dispute what the authors of the report, all of whom are well-respected professional economists, are saying? Unless you have a doctorate, you lose.


Hugh MacIntyre is a Senior Policy Analyst at the Fraser Institute. He holds an M.Sc. in Political Science from the University of Edinburgh, a Post Baccalaureate Diploma in Economics from Simon Fraser University, and an Honours B.A. from the University of Toronto.

Milagros Palacios is the Associate Director for the Addington Centre for Measurement at the Fraser Institute. She holds a B.S. in Industrial Engineering from the Pontifical Catholic University of Peru and a M.Sc. in Economics from the University of Concepcion, Chile.

Charles Lammam
Director of Policy Toronto, Ontario, CanadaPublic Policy
Current
Office of Ontario's Deputy Premier & Minister of Health and Long-term Care, Lammam Analytics
Previous
Ontario 360 Initiative at University of Toronto's Munk School of Global Affairs and Public Policy, The Fraser Institute
Education
Master of Public Policy, Bachelor of Economics


Enough to recognize a slanted and biased article that is off the mark.

Would you dispute the fact that interest rates were far too low for too long? Interest rates have diddly to do with government "overspending". That "overspending" statement is pure unadulterated far right horse puckey, and you ought to know that.

Interest rates simply had to be normalized. Every country in the world is trying to normalize interest rates

Here a few folks that blow the doors off the pikers at the Fraser Institute on that question: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/11/fed-is-doing-the-right-thing-by-normalizing-rates-jacob-frenkel.html

"The Federal Reserve's policy of normalizing interest rates is appropriate since the U.S. economy has recovered on all fronts, according to Jacob Frenkel, chairman of J.P. Morgan Chase International."

https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/springsummer-2018/normalizing-monetary-policy

"I think the Fed should have begun raising interest rates and reducing its balance sheet back in 2013 or 2014. I think the current goal of raising the federal funds rate from 1.4 percent now to 2.1 percent at the end of 2018 (when it would be a 0.1 percent real rate using the Fed’s median inflation forecast) is just too slow and will continue to encourage a dangerous bidding up of asset prices."

Martin Feldstein is the George F. Baker Professor of Economics at Harvard University.

https://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/update-1-volatile-markets-higher-bond-yields-a-good-sign-bank-of-canada

"He reiterated the Bank of Canada’s message that more interest rate hikes would be needed. The central bank has raised rates five times in the last 15 months after slashing them to almost zero to help cope with the Great Recession."

Stephen Poloz, BOC Governor appointed by Harper.

https://www.ft.com/content/a83bef10-cd19-11e8-b276-b9069bde0956

"The IMF has been vocal in its support of the Federal Reserve’s efforts to normalise interest rates..."

SNIP

"She added that some of the risks across economies in the world were “consequences of legitimate and necessary monetary tightening”, contradicting Mr Trump."

Christine Lagarde, IMF Chair

"See" your partisan hacks at the Fraser Institute and raise you an IMF!

Broaden your reading, and you easily see the partisan hack nonsense in the Fraser Institute biased and manufactured nonsense. I do pay attention to Fraser Institute "articles, because in fact checking them sometimes they have a point, but I never take their opinion or anyone else's as definitive without doing that fact checking.

Back to the main point - including CPP is as a "tax increase" is just road apples. CPP is a great investment for average Canadians and in the long run, the improved CPP will make average Canadians more prosperous and lower government costs at the same time. Win-win for the average Canadian - but yes, a minor loss for the top 1% - to whom I say "boo hoo", go cry in your Dom Perignon!

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 3:32 pm
by Pete Podoski
Globalists like you would rely on the I.M.F.

I think I'll trust the word of Canadian educated and experienced economists, not those from Trumpland, when it comes to analysis of Canadian issues.

The I.M.F. does fit the narrative of Trudeau and his peanut chuckers where the veiled sell-out of Canada is concerned, though.

Get the I.M.F. to dictate your economy and taxation, and the U.N. telling us who can come here and criminalizing what we're allowed to say about it. Perfect.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 4:16 pm
by burnedatstake
Pete Podoski wrote:Globalists like you would rely on the I.M.F.

I think I'll trust the word of Canadian educated and experienced economists, not those from Trumpland, when it comes to analysis of Canadian issues.

The I.M.F. does fit the narrative of Trudeau and his peanut chuckers where the veiled sell-out of Canada is concerned, though.

Get the I.M.F. to dictate your economy and taxation, and the U.N. telling us who can come here and criminalizing what we're allowed to say about it. Perfect.


what proof do you have to consider "your" narratives more gospel than others that believe in the IMF? narratives that are started coming from the fraser institute are suspect right from the very beginning.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 5:17 pm
by hobbyguy
Pete Podoski wrote:Globalists like you would rely on the I.M.F.

I think I'll trust the word of Canadian educated and experienced economists, not those from Trumpland, when it comes to analysis of Canadian issues.

The I.M.F. does fit the narrative of Trudeau and his peanut chuckers where the veiled sell-out of Canada is concerned, though.

Get the I.M.F. to dictate your economy and taxation, and the U.N. telling us who can come here and criminalizing what we're allowed to say about it. Perfect.


Actually if you read my post, I trust the consensus of Poloz, a Harvard economics professor, the chairman of J.P. Morgan and the IMF, plus the US Federal Reserve. That's a lot more "firepower" than a biased article that is clearly partisan rubbish from the Fraser Institute.

What I do like in some of the Fraser Institute opinion articles is that they summarize data - which allows to quickly double check the validity of the data - and that can be convenient, as at times the data they bring up can be inconvenient for all stripes of government.

And no, trying to stick me with the ARNF "globalist" label is disingenuous. Looking for balance and the most accurate information is not being "globalist". Nor is believing that without international two way trade we would all be less prosperous. Just for perspective here is one month's international "global" trade: https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/subjects/international_trade

Yup, about $100 billion in a month. $1.2 trillion per year. Take $1.2 trillion per year out of Canada's economy and how could we possibly be as prosperous? Perhaps as user of "globalist" as a pejorative you would like to explain how you propose to do that.

Perhaps along that path you can explain Harper and the Conservatives sell off of our Steel Industry, Nickel mining, and the oil sands. Now THAT was a sell off. Harper had a "deal" with US Steel to preserve Canadian jobs - well, until US Steel got their hostile takeover of Stelco completed - then they promptly shut down Hamilton and took the jobs south - while Harper and the CONservatives did absolutely nothing, nada, zero about it.

You CONservatives just don't seem to like facts, nor the reality that your big lie about about tax increases at the federal is just that - a lie when the facts are presented.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 6:21 pm
by DAMACO
I just want to be able to opt out of CPP, and get what I paid into it in one large lump sum. I'll probably be dead before I can make use of it anyways considering how bad the world is right now.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 6:25 pm
by The Green Barbarian
burnedatstake wrote:the fraser institute has been proven again and again to mislead and cherry pick their chosen facts. as such i am shocked people buy into their *bleep*.


Actually, this isn't true at all. Leftists hate what they have to say, and so then produce garbage to try and discredit the Fraser Institute. But it's just garbage.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 9:18 pm
by burnedatstake
The Green Barbarian wrote:Actually, this isn't true at all. Leftists hate what they have to say, and so then produce garbage to try and discredit the Fraser Institute. But it's just garbage.


and what proof do you have that is substantive? again - if its the fraser institute you have shown your hand and it is suspect. if the shoe was on the other foot and leftists as you say quoted from the tyee (or say a left wing canadian think tank) some would spew an opinion laced heavily with adjectives and disparaging descriptions of leftists and possibly ask who dimples is. why is it that right wingers feel they have luxury to get away with that? its juvenile. or shall i say - garbage.

Re: It's 2019 - your taxes are going up $2,200

PostPosted: Jan 3rd, 2019, 9:30 pm
by Glacier