2019 an election year

Re: 2019 an election year

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 13th, 2019, 11:51 am

Snman wrote:Posting this here so it won't simply be seen as Trudeau bashing. This is a perfect example of the kind of BS that politicians pull that makes me tend to ignore anything good they might have done. They all do it I think, but Trudeau is a master of the art and it's stuff like this that affects my decision at election time.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... r-question


Ummm... Trudeau's comments have clearly been taken out of context by the right wing, and were ginned up by a person with political ambitions in Reform country - rural Alberta.

It is simple fact that when a large construction camp sets up near a small town there are all sorts of impacts, some positive, some negative. Been a looong time since I worked in a camp, but when I did, I saw some guys behaving rather badly.

This is also a question that become a heckler's favorite. Point blank, the far right have been planting hecklers at events. They do not have the right to derail the conversation constantly. The questions surrounding the out of context and ginned up misconstrual of JT's remarks have all been answered, and several times. Heckling by the far right should indeed be sloughed off, as should heckling by the far left. All it does is pollute the political discourse and deflect from the real issues that Canadians want conversations about, like health care, job stability, housing costs, mass transit options etc.

These made up issues are seemingly all the far right and those that pander to them have. Real questions are not their agenda, and they should respectfully not be permitted to derail real discussion of the real issues for the bulk of Canadians.
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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Snman » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:11 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
Snman wrote:Posting this here so it won't simply be seen as Trudeau bashing. This is a perfect example of the kind of BS that politicians pull that makes me tend to ignore anything good they might have done. They all do it I think, but Trudeau is a master of the art and it's stuff like this that affects my decision at election time.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... r-question


Ummm... Trudeau's comments have clearly been taken out of context by the right wing, and were ginned up by a person with political ambitions in Reform country - rural Alberta.

It is simple fact that when a large construction camp sets up near a small town there are all sorts of impacts, some positive, some negative. Been a looong time since I worked in a camp, but when I did, I saw some guys behaving rather badly.

This is also a question that become a heckler's favorite. Point blank, the far right have been planting hecklers at events. They do not have the right to derail the conversation constantly. The questions surrounding the out of context and ginned up misconstrual of JT's remarks have all been answered, and several times. Heckling by the far right should indeed be sloughed off, as should heckling by the far left. All it does is pollute the political discourse and deflect from the real issues that Canadians want conversations about, like health care, job stability, housing costs, mass transit options etc.

These made up issues are seemingly all the far right and those that pander to them have. Real questions are not their agenda, and they should respectfully not be permitted to derail real discussion of the real issues for the bulk of Canadians.


Perhaps, but if that's the case then why not just say something like "Thank you for your question. As you all know, I have answered this one before but for those who may have missed it, including this young lady, I will answer it again." ? The deflection indicates nothing more than arrogance on his part and further, if he's in the political arena that he himself has created, that is the public forum, they he ought to be prepared to deal with the 'right wing' elements that might attend. Neither he nor you have any proof that the person who posed the question was a right wing plant and he has the responsibility to answer the question, regardless of how many times he's answered it before, imho.
I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance - Socrates

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Gone_Fishin » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:17 pm

There's quite a bit of chatter that a bunch of those who applauded Trudeau at that town hall had been brought in to do so. This kind of *bleep* is so amateur, and will hurt Trudeau's image more than help it. His arrogance in thinking that people can be fooled by his childish games is truly insulting. People aren't fools, despite what the elitist Trudeau thinks.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man’s heart inclines him to the right, but a fool’s heart to the left."
Get a high school drama teacher to run a country, and what do you get? High school drama.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Merry » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:36 pm

I watched that exchange and, right wing plant or not, that young lady deserved an answer to her very respectfully worded question.

Politicians of ALL stripes these days regularly deflect difficult questions in exactly the same way that Trudeau did to that young lady, and it's wrong. We the people, those who pay the bills and whose interest politicians are supposed to be looking out for, deserve honest and complete answers to our questions; even when those questions are difficult ones.
"In a world swathed in political correctness, the voting booth remains the final sanctuary where the people are free to speak" - Clifford Orwin

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:41 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:Six ways Justin Trudeau will try to deceive voters on the border crisis during the 2019 election


1) The Liberals will keep it out of the news
Justin Trudeau will try to make the election about something else and the mainstream media will be sure to assist him.

They’ll say it’s about the carbon tax. They’ll avoid talking about immigration and shame any politician who decides to bring it up.

It’s a “high-risk, low-reward” election issue, claims the CBC.

“They’re going to plant articles in the media saying that the flow at the border has been greatly reduced. People are missing the point here, the regular flow at the border is just half of the total refugee claims because a lot of refugee claims are being made at regular points of entry. People are flying in with passports, people are coming in with visitors visas and making inland claims. The border flow is just half the story,” said immigration lawyer, Sergio Karas.

“The issue seems to have disappeared from the front pages. The danger is that when a trend is established, say that people are crossing the border regularly, it will be in the news for a while only and after a while it becomes routine and the media loses interest but also, not only that, the trend becomes established and it becomes acceptable. This is the way you enter Canada.”

Better to just leave it alone then.

2) Trudeau will blame it on somebody else
Instead of taking responsibility for his direct culpability in the border crisis, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will try to push the blame onto the last administration.

He’ll say Harper is at fault. He couldn’t possibly have done anything wrong. The Liberals have only been dealing with what they were handed.

Before the Liberals came into power Canada had an internationally renowned immigration system. It was a system that worked. What do we have now?

We have an open border and a divided country.

3) He’ll conflate immigration with asylum
Another tactic of the Liberals will be to distract Canadians by pointing to their successes in the immigration system. They’ll say they reduced the wait times in immigration streams like the spousal sponsorship program. They’ll say that the immigration system was a mess before they arrived.

Don’t be fooled — this is an attempt to distract from the real problem. Immigration is only half of the story. Immigration and refugee processing are handled by separate entities.

Immigration Minister Ahmed Hussen is happy to wax his minor trophies in immigration before addressing the elephant in the room, which is the asylum and deportation backlog.

Behind closed doors, the cabinet is scrambling to attempt to patch up the mess they have created.

“They need to process these claims and under the current system it’s just impossible. Even if they hire 500 members of the board, you can just imagine, one member can process a claim a day, or let’s say 150 claims a year,” said Karas.

“Some claims are complicated — they take a number of sittings just to process. So it’s just impossible for a member to process more than a normal rate. How many members do you need to process 50k-65k claims?”

Without changes to improve efficiency and productivity of the asylum process, wait times and backlogs will only continue to grow. This situation is not sustainable,” said Hussen in a leaked memo.

4) Trudeau will claim it’s beneficial for the economy
The oldest argument in the book in support of Justin Trudeau’s disastrous open border approach is that it will help with our economy.

It’ll benefit you in the long run, don’t be so ignorant.

Illegals only want jobs, you can’t deny them that.

Is it really so beneficial when the very refugees we’ve allowed into the country are now suing our federal government for tens of millions of dollars? Or when economists are predicting that our economy is headed for the dumps and tough times are ahead?

Unsurprisingly it’s dust off Justin Trudeau’s shoulder, who will happily step out of his prime minister costume as soon as his act is over, while our children and our children’s children will have to pay for his mistakes.

5) He’ll call his critics racist
The best tactic to confound the public is to start vilifying your opponents. It puts your enemies on the defensive and gives you the upper hand.

The Trudeau Liberals have resorted to the name-calling tactics better suited for an elementary playground.

He’s called the opposition “ambulance chasers“, while his immigration minister has called his opponents “not Canadian“.

“They’re going to have to do something in order to keep this out of the news, until after the election which will be very hard considering the Conservatives would hone in,” said Sergio Karas, “And this issue would play very well in certain parts of Quebec. Given the importance of this issue during the electoral campaign especially in certain areas of Quebec where a lot of Liberal seats are at risk.”

All the while our prime minister has the audacity to point to his opponents as the aggressive and demeaning party.

6) He’ll consult the “experts”
Usually these experts are global financiers with an invested interest in refugee operations, open border academics, non-profit asylum lawyers or bought-and-paid for journalists.

It’s the illusion of opinion, it’s the farce of expertise.

The federal government takes cues from organizations like The Century Initiative, a group of financial moguls hellbent on surging Canada’s population to 100 million through whatever means possible by 2100.

They’ll be experts like Dominic Barton, a financial consultant who has spent a decade living in Asia and has a main residence in London, U.K.

Throughout the election Justin Trudeau will point to all kinds of experts to justify his claims, while ignoring the opinions of Canadians the whole time.

https://www.thepostmillennial.com/six-w ... 9-election


If you think the carbon tax issue is "going away", you have another thing coming.

The alt-right rant about immigration is just that. The "open border" comment is picking up on T.Rump's racist dog whistle. Any thinking person knows full well that the rash of asylum seekers is directly related to T.Rumps neofascist and racist policies, including refusing to actually process legal asylum requests.

Canada is a country of immigrants. We have seen this disgusting nonsense from the far right fringe many times in our history, and sadly, some snollygoster politicians cater to it. Absolutely none of the periods of this garbage being ginned up by the far right fringe are points of pride for Canada, rather they are points of shame. We have, at various times, allowed the far right fascists and neo fascists to denigrate the Irish, the Poles, the Ukranians, the Japanese, the Chinese, South Asians, our own indigenous folks, and on and on.

Enough of that garbage!! No person of conscience or morals should vote for any snollygoster pol that plays this garbage up, nor pay any attention to the small minded nasty alt-right groups that purvey it.

Evey time this garbage comes up, it pollutes the real political discourse. Every time it is a main thrust of an otherwise useless pol, it is precisely because they are in fact useless.

We can have a real discussion about whether or not we want to increase, maintain, or decrease Canada's population. But it must be devoid of the racist dog whistles and nonsense that goes back a long way before Harper's infamous Niqab dog whistle politics.

Do not pay any attention to this ARNF stuff and nonsense. Do not vote for any snollygoster politician that plays it up (I don't care what party!).

Canada and Canadians are much, much better than that! This fat old white guy wants no part of such gutter scraping divisive garbage!
Anyone but Scheer - career pols are know nothings.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:43 pm

Merry wrote:I watched that exchange and, right wing plant or not, that young lady deserved an answer to her very respectfully worded question.

Politicians of ALL stripes these days regularly deflect difficult questions in exactly the same way that Trudeau did to that young lady, and it's wrong. We the people, those who pay the bills and whose interest politicians are supposed to be looking out for, deserve honest and complete answers to our questions; even when those questions are difficult ones.


Nope. Alt-right plants playing dog whistle games deserve to be ignored. Doesn't matter if is a Liberal, a Conservative, a PPC, an NDP, a Libertarian or whatever politician, such nonsense should simply be ignored.
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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby oldtrucker » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:45 pm

I think JT scored some points by letting that girl in from Saudi Arabia.
In some ways it was a good call, and a bad one. I have no problem with helping victims of wars- like Syrians and oppression towards women on the scale that it's happening in Saudi. Just on principle, I think maybe we should grant some Saudi women like the one a few days ago, refugee status here if they can even get out without having their uncle or dad kill them. Just on principle, we should also break ties with Saudi and not do business with them.
On the down side... Saudi has 33 million, that's 16 million women that may want to leave.. Also on the down side, how do we decide who to help on social media? Another problem...Saudi is just one small nation on a planet with many millions more facing the exact same problems. Hmmm. No easy answer.
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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby blueliner » Jan 13th, 2019, 12:54 pm

hobbyguy wrote:
Merry wrote:I watched that exchange and, right wing plant or not, that young lady deserved an answer to her very respectfully worded question.

Politicians of ALL stripes these days regularly deflect difficult questions in exactly the same way that Trudeau did to that young lady, and it's wrong. We the people, those who pay the bills and whose interest politicians are supposed to be looking out for, deserve honest and complete answers to our questions; even when those questions are difficult ones.


Nope. Alt-right plants playing dog whistle games deserve to be ignored. Doesn't matter if is a Liberal, a Conservative, a PPC, an NDP, a Libertarian or whatever politician, such nonsense should simply be ignored.

But please explain why Justin cant just answer a very simple question from that hard working lady .

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Gone_Fishin » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:06 pm

Justin Trudeau’s speech empties out a small gym in Saskatoon

The prime minister participated in a town hall at the Saskatchewan Polytechnic’s Saskatoon Campus, but interestingly enough it seems he could not keep the attention of the room.

What started out as a fairly full room rapidly descended into a sad half full gymnasium.


Image

https://thenectarine.ca/politics/justin ... saskatoon/
Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man’s heart inclines him to the right, but a fool’s heart to the left."
Get a high school drama teacher to run a country, and what do you get? High school drama.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby hobbyguy » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:11 pm

blueliner - He did answer it. Before then. When you have heckler plants, they don't want an answer, they just want to derail. That applies to the far fringe left and the far fringe right, who both use hecklers for the same purpose.

Those want to promote such stuff do not respect the unity of Canada, they seek seek to bring us down to their simplistically flawed and nonthinking level. They will never accept any answer, because they do not want to think, they simply want to impose their flawed and debasing notions on everyone else in order to salve their inability to deal with real life.


“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

― George Carlin
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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Gone_Fishin » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:21 pm

hobbyguy wrote:Nope. Alt-right plants playing dog whistle games deserve to be ignored. Doesn't matter if is a Liberal, a Conservative, a PPC, an NDP, a Libertarian or whatever politician, such nonsense should simply be ignored.


That's the type of arrogance that will cost Trudeau the election. You've erroneously called her a plant - which she most certainly was not, that's been verified already - why not call her racist while you're at it? Pull out all the stops of the gushing peanut chuckers.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man’s heart inclines him to the right, but a fool’s heart to the left."
Get a high school drama teacher to run a country, and what do you get? High school drama.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:32 pm

You could answer the question until the cows come home. Today’s conservatives are not interested in answers, they are interested in rhetorical questions that make themselves look like they are in some way superior. Just take the other thread for instance where someone asked about what measure of CO2 reduction would occur under canada’s Carbon tax. This was answered multiple times, whilst the people asking ignored it and continued to ask the same question repeatedly, even going on to make such comments as “nobody can answer it, the government doesn’t know” and continuing on when it was pointed out to them about the very public study they were free to read for themselves.

Go to a yellow vest protest, if someone asks you a question and you attempt to answer, before you get two words off they’ll cut you off to ask more questions they don’t really want an answer to.

So why Should Trudeau entertain these trolls and waste time answering the same rhetorical question a dozen times, when there are other questions to answer from people who actually care and have open inquisitive minds?
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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby The Green Barbarian » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:36 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:That's the type of arrogance that will cost Trudeau the election. You've erroneously called her a plant - which she most certainly was not, that's been verified already - why not call her racist while you're at it? Pull out all the stops of the gushing peanut chuckers.


100% agree. Trudeau is just too arrogant. And stupid.
All evidence points to the snollygoster scown Justin Trudeau being unfit to run this country. The LIEberal platform is all foofrah. Don't be fooled by the LIEberal decepticons. October 2019 can't come fast enough.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Gone_Fishin » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:40 pm

Trudeau is paid to answer questions of everyone, even those that you peanut chuckers want to see dead.
Ecclesiastes 10:2 "A wise man’s heart inclines him to the right, but a fool’s heart to the left."
Get a high school drama teacher to run a country, and what do you get? High school drama.

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Re: 2019 an election year

Postby Omnitheo » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:48 pm

Wow! I want to see people dead?

On the topic of rhetorical statements: Can you sink any lower when it comes to strawmanning and hyperbole?
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