2019 an election year/Federal

[floppi]

User pay is a terrific concept.

It enables people to make life choices that they can afford, and once they have experience in making sustainable choices, they're on their way to a better life, living within their means.

Those who live a life of subsidization are the first to die when situations change. It's far better that we teach our young people to rely on themselves rather than governmental deficit financing to put food on the table.

Of course, under Justin's tenure, we've seen one-third of all new consumer debt being incurred to pay food and shelter costs. While the left is too dense to understand that this is unsustainable, those with a better grasp of economic realities know otherwise.

Of course you know Carbon Tax is user tax...

[Country plough boy]

User pay is a terrific concept.

It enables people to make life choices that they can afford, and once they have experience in making sustainable choices, they're on their way to a better life, living within their means.

Those who live a life of subsidization are the first to die when situations change. It's far better that we teach our young people to rely on themselves rather than governmental deficit financing to put food on the table.

Of course, under Justin's tenure, we've seen one-third of all new consumer debt being incurred to pay food and shelter costs. While the left is too dense to understand that this is unsustainable, those with a better grasp of economic realities know otherwise.

Of course you know Carbon Tax is user tax...

Except we cant survive without oil and gas. Or food and heat. All of which is heavily dependant on oil. Are you confused about this.

[Pete Podoski]

Of course you know Carbon Tax is user tax...

You don't know the difference between an imposed tax and a discretionary purchase.

I understand why. Socialists are incapable of thinking for themselves, and have lost (if they ever had it in the first place) the ability to make their own choices, and have rolled over and let the government make their choices for them.

It's not unlike the rows of obedient workers, in government-issued garb, marching in lockstep in communist China. Don't think, we'll do it for you.

[The Green Barbarian]

Of course you know Carbon Tax is user tax...

created to enslave poor people in the name of fear-mongering fairy tales.

[floppi]

Of course you know Carbon Tax is user tax...

Except we cant survive without oil and gas. Or food and heat. All of which is heavily dependant on oil. Are you confused about this.

...except Mother Earth ( and us )can't survive all the byproducts of oil and gas.....time for a change. Better sooner than later when the finite resources are used up and we find ourselves with no alternatives.

[The Green Barbarian]

...except Mother Earth ( and us )can't survive all the byproducts of oil and gas......

BWha ha ha what a crock of nonsense!! Thanks for weighing in Climate Einstein...

[hobbyguy]

User pay is a terrific concept.

It enables people to make life choices that they can afford, and once they have experience in making sustainable choices, they're on their way to a better life, living within their means.

Those who live a life of subsidization are the first to die when situations change. It's far better that we teach our young people to rely on themselves rather than governmental deficit financing to put food on the table.

Of course, under Justin's tenure, we've seen one-third of all new consumer debt being incurred to pay food and shelter costs. While the left is too dense to understand that this is unsustainable, those with a better grasp of economic realities know otherwise.

Ummm... you need to think more deeply. The 'user pay privatization" nonsense ignores what the purpose of governance is.

By your reasoning we should go to an American style health care system. Then we could all pay twice as much, or die.

Western liberal democracies generally use an efficiency model, although it gets lost in the shuffle sometimes.

Highway systems are an example. Initially, most roads were private roads, and each section of road carried tolls (often extortionate). Inefficient and unpredictable, hard to maintain. Then in 1956 Eisenhower - a Republican who understood efficiency and logistics more than any of us will, said "enough". Eisenhower built the interstate highway system based on everyone paying some tax, and in the end it was much cheaper, much more efficient than the private toll road system. In point of fact, many economists will point to that government "free" (of course not free, everybody paid) highway system as unleashing the US economy. It is said that each $1 billion invested in public highways creates and supports 42,000 jobs. The interstate highway system set of economic growth that approach 10% per year, when the baseline was about 5-6%.

Such is the power of doing things together. It is the fundamental of teamwork.

Health care is another obvious example. A privatized system such as the US is very expensive. Yes, the private system has some advantages in terms of super high quality care - but it comes at a massive cost that many can not afford, will never be able to afford. In fact, many Americans have no health care at all outside of emergency room care (which is highly inefficient, bad for outcomes, and super expensive).

There are many other considerations.

Let's think about national parks like Banff. Banff contributes about $6 billion per year in economic value. It also contributes to clean air, clean water, conservation and many more things that have no direct $ equivalent. Many Canadians will never visit Banff - yet many of those Canadians who never visit Banff will in fact benefit both in $ terms (tourists passing through) and non $ terms. Hard to argue that the tax $ we pay toward Banff and the national park system is not a benefit.

IF you tried to run every national park on a purely "user pay" model, then most Canadians could NOT afford to ever visit them.

Most Kelowna residents can NOT afford waterfront property. So we have waterfront parks. We all pay for those parks. But we get get paid back by being able to enjoy the waterfront, and the huge contribution to tourism that those waterfront parks make. Those waterfront and other parks are examples of what "we do together" and we all pay for all of them. It is the most efficient way to have park access for all - even if individually we may not use all of the parks (e.g. I don't play baseball, but don't mind my tax $ paying for baseball parks).

I don't have school age children, nor do I attend schools. Yet I don't mind paying my school taxes. Someone else paid school taxes for me to go to school, and it is my turn to pay my share (which I am able to do largely because someone else paid for me to go to school). Over the course of my working life, my employers have benefited from skills that said schooling gave me. Everyone wins.

The key to the success of western liberal democracies in generating high standards of living and prosperity is shared responsibilities, shared costs, balanced against individual responsibility and opportunity. 'User pay" nonsense does not fit well with what has made countries like Canada prosperous and desirable places to live. "User pay" stuff and nonsense is short sighted and lacks insight into what really works. A hockey team is successful when all "buy in" and work toward the same goals - not when you have every player just out for themselves.

The balance in a western liberal democracy is the important thing. The further right or the further left a political party goes, the further from the optimal balance it gets. That's why I have a problem with the current iteration of the "Conservative" party - it has shifted way out to the right. It is also why I won't consider the NDP (or the Green* party) - because there is no balance there either.

The more centrist the party, the more chance there is that I will vote for that party. Scheer and his pretend "Conservatives" keep moving further right and ignoring the center of Canada at their peril, but that is not surprising given who is really calling the shots in the current iteration of "Conservative" party.

[The Green Barbarian]

Ummm... you need to think more deeply.

Ummm….you need to think more deeply. Your way is just so defeatist and just advocates for more failure. We've failed enough. Time to try something that works, instead of just continuing to spend like brainless LIEberal drunken sailors.

[hobbyguy]

...except Mother Earth ( and us )can't survive all the byproducts of oil and gas......

BWha ha ha what a crock of nonsense!! Thanks for weighing in Climate Einstein...

Grade 2 propaganda repeated is still grade 2 propaganda.

Try posting something credible like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_carbon_tax#/media/File:BC_Petroleum_product_use.png

Yup, revenue neutral carbon taxes do work. Real Conservatives, like those in the UK have been very successful in meeting climate targets with carbon taxes. The UK has reduced its coal fired electricity from 30% to 3% by using carbon taxes.

Funny how real facts shred grade 2 propaganda.

[Country plough boy]

BWha ha ha what a crock of nonsense!! Thanks for weighing in Climate Einstein...[/quote]

Grade 2 propaganda repeated is still grade 2 propaganda.

Try posting something credible like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Columbia_carbon_tax#/media/File:BC_Petroleum_product_use.png

Yup, revenue neutral carbon taxes do work. Real Conservatives, like those in the UK have been very successful in meeting climate targets with carbon taxes. The UK has reduced its coal fired electricity from 30% to 3% by using carbon taxes.

Funny how real facts shred grade 2 propaganda.[/quote]

Conservatives in the UK lol. They are left of our NDP

[The Green Barbarian]

Grade 2 propaganda repeated is still grade 2 propaganda.

For once you and I are in agreement, though I would classify ".except Mother Earth ( and us )can't survive all the byproducts of oil and gas" as more of Kindergarten propaganda. Calling it "Grade 2" is being too kind.

Look, if you are gullible enough to buy into this man-made climate change nonsense, go to China or India and make a difference there. Forcing disgusting and evil taxes on the poor in Canada doesn't solve anything. If there is anything to actually solve, which there isn't.

Funny how real facts shred grade 2 propaganda.

I agree, and yet this whole industry of taxation and subsidies that has been built up around the man-made climate change myth doesn't care about facts. It's all about fear-mongering and propaganda. You nailed it.

[Ka-El]

Conservatives in the UK lol. They are left of our NDP

removed it is still completely irrelevant to the factual evidence presented.
Facts don't care about partisanship - just as partisans apparently don't care about evidence or facts.

[hobbyguy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/powerandpolitics/kim-campbell-calls-tory-climate-plan-a-sop-1.5189496

"Former PM Campbell rips Scheer's climate plan"

Former Progressive Conservative prime minister Kim Campbell says that the Conservatives' climate strategy falls short.

"They produced a plan that has no targets," she told Power and Politics host Vassy Kapelos in a recent interview, airing today. "It really is a sop, I think."

SNIP

"Along with her criticism of the Conservative Party plan, Campbell said she has "no time" for climate change deniers.

"It is a serious, serious issue and we need to attack it," she said.

When asked if she still identified as a conservative, Campbell noted she has never held Conservative Party of Canada membership.

"Well, I've never joined the Conservative Party of Canada. I think Joe Clark expressed it that he didn't leave the party, the party left him," she said. "It is not the Progressive Conservative Party.""


There it is in a nutshell. The current iteration is indeed the regressive pretense at "Conservative". No realistic policies, no aspirations for the country, just political sniping and pandering to the far right elements.

[Hurtlander]

What isn't nonsense is that Scheer and his regressive "Conservatives" want to roll back marijuana legalization.

What IS nonsense is some people being so worried that Scheer is going to win the election that they’re willing to make up outright lies in their desperation to get Trudeau re-elected.. these peoples desperation really stinks.

Scheer IS NOT going to roll back marijuana laws.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/scheer- ... -1.4485836
“Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer, who previously opposed the proposed legalization of cannabis, now says a Conservative government would not only keep cannabis legal but would also stay the course with its support of pardons for Canadians convicted of pot possession.
"We will maintain…the fact that cannabis is legal, we are not going to change that and we do support the idea of people having those records pardoned," Scheer told Don Martin during an interview on CTV’s Power Play Thursday.”

[flamingfingers]

^^You would be an absolute idiot to believe ANYTHING Scheer says or promises.