Random Breath tests

Re: Random Breath tests

Postby GordonH » Jan 11th, 2019, 3:49 pm

GordonH wrote:Yes, I lost both Family & Friends to dumb :cuss: drinking driver. Counterattack has been in place since the 70s, drivers still don't have brains to stop drinking & driving.

RVThereYet wrote:No offence to your loss GordonH, but regardless of these new laws, people will continue to drink and drive and people will still be killed by drunk drivers, as unfortunate (and stupid) as that is. But unless there is a marked change in that police start pulling lots of people over based on these laws and check them for alcohol consumption, there will be people that think they can get away with it, and will get away with.


Do you have any suggestions
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby Catsumi » Jan 11th, 2019, 9:37 pm

Here is NP opinion on the granting of wider police powers

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-vie ... iving-laws
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby cr125 » Jan 11th, 2019, 9:55 pm

it seems to me, the cop that was running over the deer should have to blow :smt045
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby dirtybiker » Jan 11th, 2019, 10:42 pm

I wonder if the Powers that be 'sting' people leaving the Hospitals, Pharmacies, Clinics
and the like ?

Sure they'd nab plenty of customers.....

Oh wait, a roadside screener would show zip.....
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby cr125 » Jan 12th, 2019, 1:25 pm

Yep, drugs are drugs, no matter what form they come in. Maybe its ok to drive after taking prescription drugs because your under doc's supervision..
Boy the cops will have a field day going into all the wineries and asking everyone to blow, they wont be able to keep up [icon_lol2.gif]
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby RVThereYet » Jan 12th, 2019, 2:06 pm

Interesting read:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.4975008

Well over 3000 comments on the story, that tells you how contentious this whole thing really is...

Canadians could now be charged with drunk driving — even if not drunk, lawyers warn

Even drinking within 2 hours after you've stopped driving can get you charged

John Lancaster · CBC News · Posted: Jan 11, 2019 3:41 PM ET | Last Updated: January 11

Canadians could now face criminal charges for driving with illegal amounts of alcohol in their system, even if they were stone cold sober while behind the wheel, under tough new impaired driving laws passed by Parliament, according to criminal defence lawyers.

Bill C-46, which came into effect last month, gives police wide-ranging new powers to demand sobriety tests from drivers, boaters and even canoeists.

Police no longer need to have any reasonable grounds to suspect you're impaired, or driving with a blood alcohol concentration (BAC) of more than .08, which is 80 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood, before demanding you submit to testing.

Refusing the test can result in a criminal charge.

But even drinking within two hours after you've stopped driving or boating could now get you arrested, if your BAC rises over .08

"I think anyone should have a problem with this legislation, because it's unconstitutional," Toronto lawyer Daniel Brown said.

When introducing the bill, federal Justice Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould said the law would help crack down on people who consume large quantities of alcohol in a short period, then drive or boat, hoping to get home before the alcohol is fully absorbed into their systems.

Previously, if drivers could prove they weren't yet over the legal limit when they were stopped by police, a court could find them innocent.

The new law removes that defence.

"Its primary purpose is to eliminate risky behaviour associated with bolus drinking, sometimes referred to as drinking and dashing" Wilson-Raybould told Parliament.

But Brown calls the law a solution for a problem that rarely existed and claims it will "criminalize Canadians who have done nothing wrong."

He points to number of scenarios where people park their cars with no intention of driving anytime soon, then start drinking.

"You can imagine a situation where a husband and wife are out together. The husband drives to the bar knowing the wife will be the designated driver on the way home, and she's not going to be consuming alcohol that night. The husband drinks alcohol and is now over the limit and has driven a vehicle within the previous two hours," said Brown.

Brown says police can legally enter the bar, or wait for the couple to leave the establishment and demand a breath sample from the husband.

"Even if he's walking to the passenger side of the car, if he is now over 80," added Brown, he could be arrested.

An arrest for driving over the limit comes with an automatic 90-day driver's licence suspension and potentially increased insurance premiums. Those who fight the criminal charge in court would likely have to spend thousands of dollars on legal fees as well.

According to several lawyers canvassed by CBC News, police can come to your home up to two hours after you stopped driving or boating to test your sobriety.

Potentially complicating matters is the fact the charge is considered a "reverse onus" in legal terms. Essentially, that means police don't have to prove your BAC was over the limit when you were driving, or boating two hours earlier.

It's now up to you to prove you were sober.

It's unclear if anyone in Canada has been arrested under the new two hour law yet, but lawyers CBC News has spoken to insist any such case will be fought all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada to test the law's constitutionality.

And Ontario's Criminal Lawyers' Association has warned the government the law could result in thousands of wrongful convictions.

But Andy Murie of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) says lawyers have got it wrong and accuses them of "fear mongering."

Murie, who is not a lawyer, insists police still need probable cause to demand a sobriety test.

"Only if [police] suspect that you've committed an offence of drunk driving and they are following the investigation, and that investigation took them to your house or your bar" can they demand a sobriety test, he said.

Murie says a spot check would be an exception, and police can legally test everyone stopped.

Toronto criminal defence lawyer Calvin Barry, who has defended hundreds of drunk driving cases, says MADD has it wrong.

"Police do not require reasonable suspicion any longer," Barry told CBC News..

Barry also warns Canadians they can be arrested and charged within the new two-hour time frame if their BAC has risen over the limit — even if they had been sober when they parked their car and planned to take a cab or transit home later.

"That is just a flagrant contravention of one's civil liberties and a breach of the charter," Barry said.

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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby my5cents » Jan 12th, 2019, 2:39 pm

Yes it's remarkable that the CBC story has generated 3142 comments. This Toronto lawyer Daniel Brown is saying that for up to two hours after driving, the police, without grounds can demand a screening test from a person who apparently is not currently driving. I didn't read that in the law, but I'm not a lawyer.

What REALLY concerns me is that yes, people across Canada are concerned that this new CRIMINAL law is taking away the right to be presumed innocent and in fact reverses the onus to the person to prove they weren't over the limit. BUT we in BC have the IRP that has NO PROTECTION and the IRP is triggered by the screening test, with it's new lack of any need for grounds to make the demand.

So yes, if the police choose to charge someone criminally there is a reverse onus, BUT in BC if the police, after obtaining the screening test of "warn" or "fail" revert to the BC Motor Vehicle Act, it's even worse ! The cop pronounces you guilty at the scene and all sorts of unconstitutional things happen.

I would love to see the stats on the number of Criminal Drinking Driving charges laid in BC verses the number of IRP. I would bet it's 95% IRP.

Don't get me wrong. I'm totally against anyone who drinks and drives. I just don't think taking away a person's rights is the way to go.

I'm disappointed in the number of people who feel that the end justifies the means.
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby oldtrucker » Jan 12th, 2019, 3:46 pm

It is on the Libs...they will be remembered for being the ones in power that allowed the law in Canadians living rooms and bedrooms 2 hours after they got home.
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby RVThereYet » Jan 13th, 2019, 1:07 pm

oldtrucker wrote:It is on the Libs...they will be remembered for being the ones in power that allowed the law in Canadians living rooms and bedrooms 2 hours after they got home.


Kind of ironic how it was Trudeau Sr. that said the "Government has no business in the Nations bedrooms" ...

But the answer may be simple ...

"Knock-Knock" ... "Who's there?" ... "The police, open up and give us a breath sample" ... "GO GET A WARRANT"

... That ought to take care of the 2 hour time limit. It'll be a cold day in hell before I open my front door under those circumstances to any cops that don't have a warrant .

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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby csm » Jan 13th, 2019, 2:42 pm

Wheels wrote:It's about time Canada. Fully support MADD in their initiatives.
RCMP need the tools and Government needs to tighten loop holes in the law! It's been done in Sweden and Australia to name a few. Get with it. Driving under the influence is a crime and should be legislated as such....


In some instances - yes, but not when it begins to violate your constitutional rights and increases the inception of a "Police State"!

It's absolutely unbelievable that they can come into your home and demand a breath sample 2 hours after you get home, then it's up to you to PROVE you had a couple of beer AFTER you got home ( not before ), that, my friends, is bordering on autocratic police state tactics - and Trudeau stated he "LIKES" China's system of Tyranny - a classic "AUTOCRATIC POLICE STATE".

Of course, JT can get stoned and *bleep* and drive without getting convicted because he is one of the "Elite" and above the law!! ( like Sikhs not having to wear motorcycle helmets when the rest of us do ).

What's next, they going to add the fact you have a cell phone and a car, so you must have been texting or talking on the phone while driving at one point? Or if you have a dog, it must have been sitting on your lap when you were driving? You hav an empty Timmies cup in the car, so you MUST have drank it while Driving?

Sorry, if your out driving and your stupid enough to drive drunk, then that's your problem.

Leaving a bar, party or anywhere serving alcohol is also fair game in my opinion, but not breaking into your house 2 hours later demanding a sample when there is no proof that you were drunk driving.

THAT IS POLICE STATE TACTICS!!!

So, what is this issue about going into a bar and testing you - if you have a car, are they going to walk in and demand everyone with a vehicle line up, test you, then assume your going to drive and arrest you for impaired??? WOW - concentration camp tactics or what!!!

FYI - it takes 20 minutes of NO DRINKING to get an accurate breath sample - to test you in the bar while your actively drinking is total stupidity because if you take a sip of beer, you can register easily .11 to .15 up to several minutes after - which is not a true BA reading.

It's "Cash Grab" tactics from a Government that is totally BROKE from that idiot's overspending of OUR tax money.

I bought a small breathalyzer from Bactrac that connects to my cell phone, and when I go out, I always check before I ever turn the key - and if I'm even close to the limit, I don't drive until I'm well under.

Everyone should get one that likes to go out and have a few - because you just don't know - especially if think you feel fine.

I got a few extra mouth pieces so that when I have my next house party - I'll make sure I will test my guests before they leave just to be sure - that is a win/win.

It's cheap insurance, and can help you make a very bad mistake.
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby csm » Jan 13th, 2019, 3:01 pm

pieinthei wrote:
voice of reason wrote:it is a violation of our charter rights under section 8. if there is no suspicion then it is an unlawful search. im all for getting drunks off the road but not at the cost of eroding our rights.this is a slippery slope



rules and laws change.. get used to it, and blow


I'm sure you will the first to agree to the return of the Curfew laws as well - but instead of just "Teenagers" it will be for anyone being out without a reason after a certain hour of the night.

I'm sure that will save a lot of lives too!!

You can't control or protect everyone from themselves or others without infringing on their freedoms.

It's how much freedom people are willing to give up that counts, and just where does the control end is the question.

I personally will defend freedom - my father put his life on the line to do just that, and so did 10's of thousands of other Canadians. Do we simply look at their sacrifice - shrug our shoulders and say - too bad you died for something that no one now has the guts to defend??

Don't take autocracy with a grain of salt - it is a very real and dangerous road that is picking away at our rights and freedoms, and people like JT are only too happy to be the top of the pyramid controlling everything you do, say or hear - and to be above the very law he imposes on the masses.
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby my5cents » Jan 13th, 2019, 4:27 pm

RVThereYet wrote:Kind of ironic how it was Trudeau Sr. that said the "Government has no business in the Nations bedrooms" ...

But the answer may be simple ...

"Knock-Knock" ... "Who's there?" ... "The police, open up and give us a breath sample" ... "GO GET A WARRANT"

... That ought to take care of the 2 hour time limit. It'll be a cold day in hell before I open my front door under those circumstances to any cops that don't have a warrant .


If, as has been described, (no hit and run, just a neighbor saying he thought your driving was suspect) it would be very interesting for sure.

If you saw it was the police, just don't answer the door. Now how the heck do they prove refusal then ?

? Section 1234(a)(b)(c) Criminal Code of Canada - Fail to answer the door when police knock.

To those who subscribe to "well if it will get one impaired driver off the road, I'm all for it"

Benjamin Franklin had your answer : "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who haven't got it"

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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby oldtrucker » Jan 13th, 2019, 4:30 pm

my5cents wrote:Benjamin Franklin had your answer : "Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."







:up:
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby ninetyninepct » Jan 13th, 2019, 5:04 pm

Have we allowed Trudeau and MADD to take control of Provincial traffic laws? I don't remember voting for MADD. MADD needs to be controlled. They are now worse than enviro-fascists. Cops walking into my house after I have been at home for a while and demanding a breath test is a Liberal Police State. We can expect that they will claim since they are in the house they will do a complete search to see if they can find something wrong. All this based on a neighbor's complaint. Trudeau will have us spying on each other to try to suck up to him and his dictatorship.

We have to eliminate him and his Liberals from Canadian politics. It is critical for the survival of Canada as a free and democratic country.
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Re: Random Breath tests

Postby ninetyninepct » Jan 13th, 2019, 5:05 pm

vegas1500 wrote:
LTD wrote:wont be getting a random breath test from me


And if you are requested how do you think that will play out?


Simply don't open the door at home.
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