Admiral Norman trial

[fvkasm2x]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/admira ... -1.4863886

It's shocking how little attention this is getting in the press and in social media/public consumption.

I'd never even heard about it until the other day while talking with a few of the veterans I work with. They seemed to think this was going to be the thing that "sinks the liberal government" and I simply disagreed outright, because I'd never even heard of it.

Hard to be a nail in a coffin, if nobody even knows what's going on.

I've tried to do a bit of research and I've asked my coworkers about it, but it still seems "fairly tame" in the grand scheme of things.

Does anyone know a lot about this?

[Catsumi]

Pete posted this story about two weeks ago, around Jan 10 in the Election 2019 thread.

It Smells to high heaven. A cover up by Libs which seems to have been somewhat successful.

I guess the Vets are still fuming while the rest of the sailors on the Titanic have averted their eyes.

[Blast]

What do you expect? The MSM has been bought and paid for by the Liberals using YOUR money.

[fvkasm2x]

Revisiting this thread since it's come to a resolution somewhat....

I think I am correct in my initial assessment. While it is quite the hot topic at the moment, this will hardly be the thing that sinks the liberals. It's just another blip in a long line of scandals, faux pas and problems.

Case in point... there wasn't even a thread about it in January of this year until I created it and nobody said a word about it until the past few weeks in the main PM/Scandal thread. It's just not the huge deal I was led to believe.

[jimmy4321]

Sure , blame the Liberal media when things don't go your way. Ever think the average Joe don't give a *bleep*, thus the media has a hard time stringing it out?

Also the CastaCons are sounding like the Dems down south, getting fatiquing for the general public I imagine

[Catsumi]

If you turn your eyes to the JWR-SNC scandal thread, the Norman related posts are there simply because these ARE related stories with the same actors as central characters. Lots to read there, so yes, IT IS a big deal, going right to the top of the money and favors needed chain. It is not going to vanish at the wave of a hand attached to the worst PM Canada has EVER had.

If you watch the news, the Norman issue is first and foremost on the news cycle. Canadians alert and wanting to hear the whole sordid story which will come from Norman's lips as we certainly cannot count on any truthfulness from lying hound Liberals.

Dufus Trudeau just can't keep his long, interfering beak out of matters that concern Liberal party donating pals.

[fvkasm2x]

If you turn your eyes to the JWR-SNC scandal thread, the Norman related posts are there simply because these ARE related stories with the same actors as central characters. Lots to read there, so yes, IT IS a big deal, going right to the top of the money and favors needed chain. It is not going to vanish at the wave of a hand attached to the worst PM Canada has EVER had.

If you watch the news, the Norman issue is first and foremost on the news cycle. Canadians alert and wanting to hear the whole sordid story which will come from Norman's lips as we certainly cannot count on any truthfulness from lying hound Liberals.

Dufus Trudeau just can't keep his long, interfering beak out of matters that concern Liberal party donating pals.

So where was the coverage the past few months though?

I heard about it in January from my military friends and had never even heard of the situation before that. I check several news sources daily. It wasn't being covered until recently.

Why the bias? Why the lack of story?

Why the change in coverage?

[Catsumi]

Am surmising here; the lack of coverage was because NOTHING was happening....Defence could not get documents, what they got heavily was redacted, especially documents pertaining directly to PM involvement, Judge ticked off at delaying tactics of prosecution and threatens to begin trial on time, regardless, and then, then.....now self-painted into a corner the Libs "stay" the charge, and also....

Election time approaches and The Trial, set for August, 2 months before election, was going to bring nothing but more ugly scandal that they could not dodge or deflect from, so they decided to stay the charges. In other words, they had no case.

So, long period of quiet due to fox getting teeth pulled prior to entering the chicken hutch.

Don't know about you, but am seriously ticked off that the trial is off. There was a good public walloping upcoming of the lying Libs on the public stage that we were suddenly deprived of witnessing. Popcorn/champagne on hold.

[WalterWhite]

Am surmising here; the lack of coverage was because NOTHING was happening....Defence could not get documents, what they got heavily was redacted, especially documents pertaining directly to PM involvement, Judge ticked off at delaying tactics of prosecution and threatens to begin trial on time, regardless, and then, then.....now self-painted into a corner the Libs "stay" the charge, and also....

Election time approaches and The Trial, set for August, 2 months before election, was going to bring nothing but more ugly scandal that they could not dodge or deflect from, so they decided to stay the charges. In other words, they had no case.

So, long period of quiet due to fox getting teeth pulled prior to entering the chicken hutch.

Don't know about you, but am seriously ticked off that the trial is off. There was a good public walloping upcoming of the lying Libs on the public stage that we were suddenly deprived of witnessing. Popcorn/champagne on hold.

Keep the champagne on ice and the butter warm - tomorrow's Monday - they've got a whole new week to screw something up.

[Catsumi]

An outline of cronyism, good old boys club, collusion and the general stench emanating from corrupted government, from NP, bold mine

Norman fiasco brutally lays bare Ottawa's incompetence

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I’m feeling distinctly concerned about the shoddy performance levels at some of our most important institutions.

Incompetence is not unknown in official Ottawa, but the case of Vice-Admiral Mark Norman is something else again. That the country’s most senior naval officer could be treated so badly over so long a period by so many levels of authority, over an allegation that, in the end, didn’t amount to a hill of beans, has to leave even the most blasé Canadian wondering who’s in charge in the country’s capital. The Marx Brothers?

To keep Norman dangling for so long — his life, career and reputation all at stake — required an extended display of amateur-hour tomfoolery on the part of people at the topmost levels in several wings of the federal administration. The RCMP didn’t bother to interview either the accused or any of the political masters who set the policy he followed at the time of the alleged actions. Far from ensuring he was treated fairly and respectfully, his bosses at military headquarters couldn’t wash their hands of him fast enough. The same politicians who brought us the SNC-Lavalin debacle stonewalled efforts to obtain critical documents requested by the defence. Now everyone involved is invoking standard excuses for refusing to explain, justify or otherwise account for the shoddiness of their performance.

Would anyone out there feel safe falling within the sights of this crowd of klutzes? As far as I know I have no secrets worthy of interest to our federal leaders, but I sure wouldn’t feel safe should someone level some spurious accusation of wrongdoing against me. It took more than two years from the time Norman was relieved of duty for prosecutors to admit they had no hope of conviction. Who has the money or resources to outwait this crowd, as he was forced to do?

The comedy routine started right off the bat. The RCMP seems to have decided the only people worth interviewing were those who had an interest in seeing Norman found guilty of the charge that he leaked information on an important ship-building contract.

Would anyone out there feel safe falling within the sights of this crowd of klutzes?

They didn’t question Norman himself — why on Earth would the police care about the accused’s side of the story? — or members of the Harper government who approved the ship. If a person was accused of shoplifting they’d expect the police to at least take the time to ask for an explanation, but apparently a military officer who has devoted 35 years to his country’s defence doesn’t deserve the same courtesy.

Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance proved about as useful in ensuring fairness for his colleague as a busted rudder on a battleship. As Postmedia’s David Pugliese has reported, Norman was ousted before a charge had even been laid. Vance declared he had lost confidence in his deputy, without details or explanation. As Pugliese notes, “there would be no internal hearing, and no formal opportunity for Norman to present his side of the story. The decision was based on the unproven claims that underpinned the RCMP’s search warrant that had been executed on Norman’s home.”

Things didn’t get better. Letters impugning Norman’s name were mysteriously leaked, he was refused financial assistance accorded to others, efforts to obtain information were systematically blocked, and a general boasted of the military’s skill in hiding information.


This all took place at a time when the government was bumbling its way towards the SNC-Lavalin disaster, which not only failed to save the company from facing trial on corruption charges, but led to the resignation of two top cabinet members and the prime minister’s most trusted adviser.

One of the many low points in that affair was the performance of Michael Wernick, clerk of the privy council, a position that in the past has been often elevated to near-mythical status. The clerk is Canada’s most senior bureaucrat, the presumed holder of a lifetime of valued insight into the nuts and bolts of the country’s day-to-day activities, a quiet voice offering seasoned advice to the politicians who come and go while civil servants carry on.

Wernick quit in April after a performance at public hearings that led to accusations he’d crossed the line meant to prevent public servants from obvious displays of partisanship. He had, he acknowledged, lost any chance of “a relationship of mutual trust and respect” with opposition leaders, precluding his ability to continue in his job during the forthcoming election. The next time Conservatives claim the bureaucracy is a hotbed of Liberal cheerleaders, expect them to point to Wernick to support their charge.

Trudeau’s forces are now falling all over themselves to insist the Norman saga had nothing to do with them, as if someone had built a wall around defence headquarters even the fiercest wildling couldn’t broach.Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan says he feels really badly about Norman’s treatment, but what’re ya gonna do? “When something like this happens … you have to respect the independence of the process.” bThis after defence lawyers complained repeatedly of getting the run-around in their requests for documents, even after subpoenas had been issued and former prime minister Stephen Harper offered to waive the right to cabinet secrecy over all documents related to the case. Only when the case had collapsed did Sajjan finally agree to pay Norman’s legal bills, without explaining why he had been refused until then.

Like the Trudeauites, the RCMP and military have been busy defending their performance against all the evidence lying round in plain sight. The Mounties issued a statement insisting they conducted a “thorough, independent and highly professional investigation,” then refused to go into deeper details because a separate court case is in the offing. How convenient for them.

Gen. Vance and Deputy Minister Jody Thomas have suddenly discovered Norman was “a highly experienced and successful officer,” who “has had, and will continue to have, the trust of senior military and civilian leadership.” Vance didn’t say when he rediscovered his confidence in Norman, but, while Norman says he wants his job back, it may be more than a little fanciful to expect him to put his faith once again in those who failed him so badly

If there’s a bigger victim than Norman in this sorry tale it may be the trust Canadians extend to the people in charge of the nation’s business. The police, the military and the federal bureaucracy are national institutions, expected to act as bulwarks of our democracy. Recent events suggest our bulwarks are in serious need of repair.

[Catsumi]

From Toronto Star

Trudeau wants Norman affair to disappear, but it won't


Justin Trudeau’s Liberals really don’t want to talk about the Mark Norman trial and they are doing what they can to stop the media from talking about it as well.

At the start of Question Period on Monday the Conservatives asked six questions in English on the Norman trial and the fiasco that surrounds it and had five of those questions answered in French.

They also had ministers that were not responsible for the prosecution of Norman answering the questions.

When Conservative House Leader Candice Bergen stood up and asked if the prime minister would appear before the Commons defence committee to answer questions, [b]the minister of national revenue stood to answer.

In French.[/b]

First off, what does the minister in charge of revenue have to do with the attempted prosecution of one of Canada’s highest ranking military members?

The answer is of course nothing.

Why is she answering in French? To kill the chances that the English TV and radio stations will use what is said in their broadcasts. The normal protocol in the House of Commons is that the question is answered in the language it is asked in.

David Lametti, the attorney general and man in charge of this file, could have answered in either language.Instead the unilingual Francophone with no connection to the case, Diane Lebouthillier was put up to answer.

Her response was to say any claim of political interference in the Norman trial is false.

The Liberals are desperate to get that message out and are relying on a single quote from Norman’s defence lawyer Marie Henein who said after the charges were stayed that the decision was independent of political interference.

“The decision to stay this prosecution was discretion exercised by prosecutors,” she said.

That is what the Liberals want you to remember, not her previous claim that the prosecution was politically motivated.

Henein not only claimed political interference in the prosecution before the charges were stayed, she and her team presented emails showing the Privy Council Office coordinating trial strategy with the prosecution.

“So much for the independence of the PPSC,” declared Judge Heather Perkins-McVey at the time.

There were also claims of Trudeau’s office coaching witnesses, withholding key documents vital for the trial including Norman’s own emails.

"How is it that Gerald Butts got his old texts and emails within days of quitting, but Vice-Admiral Norman has waited a year and a half?” asked New Democrat MP Tracey Ramsey in the House.

In response to all of this the Liberals are like the scene in the Wizard of Oz where you are told to ignore the man behind the curtain and believe their claims rather than what you see with your own eyes.

Having been caught trying to interfere with a criminal trial with SNC-Lavalin, where they tried to help a friendly company escape charges, the Liberals can’t afford to being found guilty in the court of public opinion in another case of judicial interference.

This time to punish someone they don’t like.

So they repeat the line over and over again that the decision to stay charges was made independent of the government and political consideration.

That doesn’t mean the claim that the prosecution of Mark Norman began as a political witch-hunt isn’t also true.

We’ve seen enough to know Trudeau and his office wanted Norman to go to trial and be found guilty.

There is more to this story, even if Trudeau doesn’t want you to see it.

[OldIslander]

Canada has a new rising star -- Toronto lawyer Marie Henein -- infamous for defending Jian Ghomeshi and many other high level clients, almost always winning their cases outright. She was the lawyer who defended Vice-Admiral Mark Norman. In the press conference afterwards, she did considerable damage to T Jr.

“Before we get started,” she began, “I’d just like to introduce the” — at this point she paused for half a beat and allowed herself the slightest smile — “all female team that represented Vice-Admiral Norman.” She delivered her next line in a stone-faced deadpan. “Fortunately Vice-Admiral Norman didn’t fire the females he hired.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/in-an-inspired-performance-henein-did-incalculable-damage-to-the-trudeau-brand

After their victory, Mark Norman said he has a story to tell and he's taking some time to decide how to tell it. There is likely a book in it, if he can get it written before the next election.

[Catsumi]

Henien, a female lawyer with a rapier -like sense of humor that strikes the heart of JT unerringly.

We will all look forward to the many interviews that Norman will be giving as his book is released. I hope that happens in August, just as his "trial" was to commence.

Clearing his name and giving his side of the story PLUS revenge served up at the same moment ....priceless!

[jimmy4321]

Love how firing a women is sooo off limits these days.
Maybe we need a women PM so she can give them the boot.

Wonder now how many CastaCons are gonna give the Ghomeshi defender cred

[jimmy4321]

So you show pics, those CastaCons were all over this lady for defending Ghomeshi.