Admiral Norman trial

[Catsumi]

Right you are WW.

There have been so many scandals and rotten deeds, some presented to us by the angelic whistleblowers (tip of the b/w tail salute to them).

However, with the abysmal record of this government I cannot help but wonder how many other ugly stories have yet to be revealed to sunlight. Some cover ups might be successful with "slimy ways'" and whistleblowers not always privy to the dark underbelly.

JT must be checking nightly under his bed.

[Carrs Landing Viking]

Holy triple wow!!

It's pretty clear where the RCMP got their direction from. Trudeau and gang should be in jail.

[WalterWhite]

Right you are WW.

There have been so many scandals and rotten deeds, some presented to us by the angelic whistleblowers (tip of the b/w tail salute to them).

However, with the abysmal record of this government I cannot help but wonder how many other ugly stories have yet to be revealed to sunlight. Some cover ups might be successful with "slimy ways'" and whistleblowers not always privy to the dark underbelly.

JT must be checking nightly under his bed.

That would infer he has a semblance of a conscience - I’m quite certain he sleeps like a log.

[Catsumi]

Here is a briefer synopsis from Vice-Admiral Norman's story of the horror he lived through for more than two and a half years. I have severely edited. Caps and bold are mine.

There is only ONE thing missing to complete the picture of this Nazi-ish roundup and browbeating of Norman...a barely restrained pack of German Shepherds barking and snarling.

This government would be admired by Stalin and Hitler.
-------------------------------------------------------


A fight of your life': In a Postmedia exclusive, Mark Norman tells his side of the story

“What I never in a million years expected was that (the RCMP) would show up at my house and execute a warrant,” Norman said.

Unbeknownst to Norman, who had been elevated to vice-chief of the defence staff, making him second-in-command of the Canadian Forces, the Mounties had already conducted clandestine surveillance of him and his home in preparation for a raid.

At 7:22 a.m. on January 9, 2017, SEVEN police officers arrived in THREE vehicles at Norman’s house. The police boxed in the Normans’ vehicle...

“Are you Mark Norman?” one of the officers asked. When the vice-admiral said he was, the Mounties told him they had a warrant to search his home.....Inside the house, technicians pored over the Normans’ electronic devices. The RCMP stayed for six hours; they seized a desktop computer, a laptop, two cell phones and three iPads, one owned by his wife.

Shortly after 6:30 p.m. Same day, Norman was ushered into Vance’s office. With Vance was John Forster, deputy minister of the Department of National Defence. The RCMP had already briefed the two men on their allegations against Norman and informed them of the raid......However, Vance told Norman he couldn’t discuss the details of what the RCMP had revealed to him, other than that the information was “compelling, sobering and frightening.”

Vance handed Norman a brown envelope containing a document outlining the general’s intention to relieve his second-in-command from his military duties. Vance said he wanted a response from Norman within 24 hours. Vance warned him: “You’re in for the fight of your life.”

In the days following, Norman met with an employment lawyer, but the lawyer’s advice was that his suspension from military duties was a fait accompli.

"It was humiliating. It was the worst thing I could imagine in terms of my career".

On Friday, Jan. 13th... Norman was given a letter formally suspending him from command. In the letter, Vance wrote that he had lost confidence in Norman’s ability to command, though he offered NO explanation, ...

Norman had already predicted to Vance that the news would get out quickly, but even he was surprised how quickly journalists had secured a copy of the letter from inside defence headquarters. (This particular unauthorized release of information was NEVER INVESTIGATED)

Vance, meanwhile, had left the country — but the military wouldn’t say where he had gone or why, or even when he’d departed. Asked about Norman’s removal, Trudeau declined to provide any details. Vance had made the decision, Trudeau said, and his government fully backed its defence chief......The total lack of information fuelled gossipy theories in political, defence and media circles. Some military personnel wondered whether Norman’s suspension was related to sexual misconduct. Perhaps he was a Russian spy, others mused.

The news got international attention. “It was playing on CNN, on BBC, it was all over the world,” said Norman. He started receiving emails from naval officers and commanders from around the globe, he said, including from the U.S., the United Kingdom and Australia. “They were asking what the hell is going on and asking me whether I was okay,” said Norman. “I couldn’t answer them. I was in shock. I didn’t even know how to answer them.”

After 10 days of allowing speculation to percolate about the reasons for Norman’s suspension, Sajjan announced publicly what the government had known all along. “This is not an issue of national security,” the minister told journalists. Sajjan has declined to answer WHY he waited so long to make clear that the investigation wasn’t a matter of national security. But defence sources confirm that the minister’s response wasn’t intended to provide any relief for Norman. Sajjan was sending a message to the U.S. and other Canadian allies who were starting to ask questions about whether Norman’s removal was the result of a significant security breach.

Norman said the government and military silence significantly damaged his reputation. “I don’t know what the hell they were thinking or what they hoped to achieve,” he said.

The months following were a whirl of meetings with lawyers and sleepless nights.

The other stress Norman faced was the growing financial burden for his legal defence, ....But taking on the unlimited public-funded resources of government prosecutors requires money, and lots of it. Potential witnesses had to be found and interviewed. Access to Information requests had to be filed to try to obtain documents. Even getting basic documents from the government would turn into an ordeal that only served to create more work and drive up costs.

Norman applied to have his legal bills covered through a fund designed to pay lawyer’s fees for federal public servants who, as a result of their job, found themselves in court.

He was shocked by the response he received.Not only was he rejected for such funding, but DND had already determined he was guilty........“What was really disturbing was not that they said ‘No,’” Norman said. “That was disappointing. The disturbing part of it was the bias that was explicit in the decision.”

To deal with his legal fees Norman took out a large line of credit with his $600,000 house as collateral. He borrowed money from friends and supporters.

Unbeknownst to him, a retired army colonel in Vancouver had read Postmedia’s report about the government rejecting his request for assistance and decided to set up a GoFundMe page to help ... “Paying for top legal advice is the kind of thing that can bankrupt you.”

As the legal battle dragged on, Hammond would raise the fundraising goal, raising $430,000 from more than 3,500 individuals,..Norman has declined to discuss the final tally of his legal fees. Public reports have put that cost at $500,000. Norman, however, said that figure is not accurate. “The full cost of this is well beyond what has previously been reported,” he said. “We’re talking multiples of that number.”

Legal specialists consulted by Postmedia estimate the cost to Norman for his legal bills since 2017 is well over $1 million.

The RCMP had interviewed Liberal cabinet ministers, but officers NEVER interviewed any individuals from the previous Conservative government, a seemingly major oversight considering many of the police force’s allegations were based on claims Norman had acted inappropriately during that Harper government’s tenure.

But the RCMP’s case was already being questioned in the courts... Ontario Superior Court Justice Phillips said,“The emails in question are by no means smoking guns,” ....and Another possible explanation for Norman’s emails: for decades, Canadian military procurement has been a mess. Norman found himself in the middle of a situation where the acquisition of a supply ship the navy badly needed appeared to be headed off the rails due solely to political considerations. The judge specifically noted that none of what Norman did was for financial gain, but was instead to ensure the well-being of the navy and his sailors. “At its highest, it appears that the potential allegation against Vice-Admiral Norman is that he was trying to keep a contractual relationship together so that the country might get itself a badly needed supply ship[” Phillips wrote in his ruling. “A reasonable member of the informed public might understand the frustration of being Vice-Admiral of a Navy that cannot on its own go more than a tank of gas away from port. An officer of his rank would be expected to develop and maintain relationships with those in the business of supplying the Navy and his communications with such people are not, therefore, in and of themselves untoward.”


More importantly, Phillips pointed out, to make a case against Norman the RCMP would need to PROVE that the naval officer was the FIRST to leak confidential information in the supply ship case. That could be difficult....at least 42 people knew about the contract beforehand, and at least 73 people knew the result afterward. The PCO investigation determined there were SIX separate leaks to various lobbying firms and journalists.

Despite the flaws in the case [including another officer charged with leaking info] against Norman, the Public Prosecution Service proceeded with the criminal charge against Norman.

On April 10, 2018 Norman prepared for his first appearance in an Ottawa court. He selected a dress uniform and carefully arranged his medals. He was determined to wear his naval uniform at each and every court appearance.

A trial date would be set for August 2019 placing it squarely in the run-up to a federal election expected that fall.

Norman maintains he did what he did for the good of the navy and ultimately for the taxpayer. He was engaged in an internal battle against federal bureaucrats who fought against the Conservative government’s original plans to acquire Asterix as quickly as possible.

But the Crown portrayed Norman as a master manipulator, breaking government rules he had sworn to uphold.....“Mr. Norman knew he was breaking many very well-defined rules,” ..... Right from the beginning, Norman’s lawyers put front and centre their intention to take aim at key Liberal government officials, in particular then-Treasury Board President Scott Brison, a Nova Scotia MP, was close to Atlantic Canada’s powerful IRVING family, whose shipbuilding firm had submitted its own proposal to provide a supply ship. Norman’s lawyers alleged that Brison intervened to scuttle the Asterix project on the Irving’s behalf.

Norman’s legal team also hammered away in declaring the case had been politicized, pointing out the failure of the RCMP to interview any witnesses from the Harper government. The RCMP, said Norman’s lawyers, had adopted the “political narrative advanced by the Trudeau government.” Henein (also) said ... that Trudeau had a history of commenting publicly on the case.


Vance testified that the RCMP had briefed him on the Norman case, that he had briefly discussed the situation with Trudeau and then later that day met at various times with Sajjan, Butts and Telford. However, he testified, he didn’t jot down a single note during any of those meetings.

Vance also acknowledged in court that even though he had been served with a subpoena [b]requiring him to disclose all records, emails, texts and BlackBerry messages in which the Norman matter was discussed, he hadn’t bothered searching his own personal phone or email address.

The cross-examination of Astravas was even more devastating, some legal observers contend. She had difficulty remembering the names of her own staff. She couldn’t remember if she had ever dealt with Butts or Telford on the matter. She too admitted not having searched her personal phone or email for material on Norman despite the legal order to do so.


There was another moment of high drama when a young major in the Canadian Forces came forward to testify on Norman’s behalf.

On Dec. 18, 2018 the officer, whose name is protected by a publication ban because of fears of professional reprisal, testified that his superior told him NORMAN'S NAME WAS DELIBERATELY NOT USED IN INTERNAL FILES — meaning any search for records about Norman would come up EMPTY

The witness said he was processing an access-to-information request about Norman in 2017 that returned no results. When he sought clarification, the officer testified, his supervisor — a brigadier general — smiled and told him: “Don’t worry, this isn’t our first rodeo. We made sure we never used his name. Send back the nil return.” “He seemed proud to provide that response,” the witness said.

The witness told court he has no relationship with Norman, and came forward only because it’s “the right thing to do.”.....Justice Heather Perkins-McVey described the testimony as “very disturbing"

Norman’s lawyers ....further highlighted delays in getting documents. Records from Trudeau, Butts, Telford and Michael Wernick, the clerk of the privy council, that discussed the Norman case were among the top documents being sought.

In Feb 2019 Norman’s defence team alleged Privy Council lawyers were discussing trial strategy with federal prosecutors in a manner that showed worse political interference than the SNC-Lavalin affair.

...snip....

In April 2019 Norman’s lawyers challenged the censorship of information on a series of memos involving staff in the Prime Minister’s Office. All of this was leading up to a pre-trial motion that would allege abuse of process, arguing political interference had irreparably damaged Norman’s right to a fair trial.

Justice Perkins-McVey called it “baffling” that the Crown still had not handed over the requested documents. There were other issues as well. Prosecutors examined new evidence [/b]gathered by Norman’s legal team, [/b]as well as documents federal officials had finally turned over.

Norman, Henein and the prosecutors have all declined to discuss the nature of that new evidence. But the information was enough to put an end to the prosecution case.

On the night of Wednesday, May 7 Norman received a call from Heinen’s office. The charges would be stayed, he was told.
.... A two-and-a half-year ordeal was now at a close.

Director of Public Prosecutions Kathleen Roussel issued a statement denying there had been political influence in either the decision to charge Norman or the decision to stay that charge.

In the aftermath of the stay of the charge against Norman and increasing questions about how the RCMP conducted its investigation.... “Throughout the course of this criminal investigation, investigators from the RCMP National Division Sensitive and International Investigations section have conducted a thorough, independent and highly professional investigation.”

...snip...

Taxpayers may never know how much the failed prosecution of Norman cost them. The Public Prosecution Service of Canada told Postmedia it will not release the final tally.

The justice department declined to provide their costs, telling Postmedia it would have to use the Access to Information law to attempt to obtain details of the ministry’s spending on the Norman case. That process can take from one to seven years and does not guarantee the cost figure will ultimately be released. Various legal specialists consulted by Postmedia suggested the cost for the prosecution may be around $15 million.

When asked about Trudeau’s comments about Norman going to trial, even before charges were laid. “I know that’s how it was perceived and I think, in hindsight, not the best framing of words, I can assure you,” Qualtrough told Global. “But at the end of the day, there wasn’t political interference here.” Asked why the Liberal government wouldn’t apologize to Norman when it had in previous years issued numerous apologies to various groups, Qualtrough had her answer ready. “We can’t be in the business of apologizing for independent organizations doing their jobs.”

Sajjan said his regret was that Norman and the Canadian Forces had to go through what they did. The minister denied the Liberal government had dragged out the process of producing documents in the hopes Norman, facing mounting legal fees, would go bankrupt and throw in the towel.

The government has finally agreed to pay Norman’s legal fees, although negotiations on that matter have yet to begin.

— with files from Brian Platt, National Post

• Email: [email protected] | Twitter:

may 22. It has now come to light that Trudeau has given Vance the highest raise in pay possible.

If only it were true: what comes around, goes around.

[floppi]

Too funny! How many times are you going to drag out the sames news in an attempt to keep it around? I can understand why you do this because most of your comrades have very short memories and need the refresher every day or so......but other peeps.....not so much.

[Catsumi]

You obviously didn't read my post which was not a list but a history, a synopsis of Norman's ill-treatment by your Chief Farter. The original article is three times longer, I just posted the high points of Nazi-like handling by this awful government we are saddled with.

It bewilders me how anyone in their right mind can read through it and NOT cringe what our government did to Norman.

But, of course and as usual, you will be in full agreement as usual with the failed, expensive case against an innocent man, being a paid fartcatcher on the outskirts and all.

[floppi]

Hmmmm....I'm wondering why MacKay and Kenney weren't mentioned one time in your article. They were the ones that were doing the end around during the procurement process with Norman under the order of Harper. Leadership and them were the only ones that really knew what was going on with Norman. Why didn't they come forward right away to the prosecution and give them a heads up in their involvement in this whole debacle? They certainly would have spared Norman and the taxpayers of the money, time and grief in this charade. Why did they wait over a year to come forward?

[Catsumi]

See my post. Prosecution Investigation chose NOT to contact anyone in previous government. They just didn't CHOOSE to do their due diligence. You have asked the same question a couple of times before (see previous pages) and have been answered, patiently (see previous pages plus the short version of Norman's statement and the 5 page long Norman Statement provided in Gone-Fishing's post, although you won't bother).

Why did the RCMP overlook interviewing Kenney and MacKay? The answers presented just don't seem to satisfy, so, perhaps you know and can tell us (?)

Save yourself that D.I. time and just READ the posts for pity's sake.

I will not bother to answer a troll again. As G_F said, explain it to a brick....the brick will understand eventually.

[floppi]

Here I'll go over it again for you. It was Harper, MacKay and Kenney who did an end around the procurement process with Norman.
They were the only peeps that knew what went on behind cabinet doors. Those conversations aren't shared by governments. They were the only ones that could exonerate Norman.....why wait 2 years to come forward to do that. That's mind blowing irresponsible and lacking of any compassion. Even Norman mentioned this in your article when he said,

Norman said the government and military silence significantly damaged his reputation. “I don’t know what the hell they were thinking or what they hoped to achieve,” he said.

Who do you think he was talking about when he said, "the government silence damaged his reputation". I can tell you it wasn't JT's government he was talking about. It took 2 YEARS for MacKay and Kenny to come forward and fess up to what actually went down. I'm sure Norman felt let down and betrayed by the Harper government. It's a joke to turn this around and blame it on JT's government. Here's a Globe article that's not wearing the rose tinted partisan glasses on this story.....enjoy

There’s no evidence Liberals interfered in Mark Norman prosecution

But the facts do not support that allegation. As much as this might disappoint their critics, there is no evidence the Liberals interfered in the Norman prosecution.

The government did ask police to investigate the leak of a cabinet decision concerning a supply vessel from the Davie shipyard in Quebec.

The RCMP investigation led to a charge of breach of trust against Vice-Adm. Norman. That charge was stayed last week, more than two years after Vice-Adm. Norman was first suspended from the navy. He has suffered greatly as a result of this ordeal and deserves restitution.

But there is no evidence the government pushed the office of the director of public prosecutions to lay the charge. Quite the opposite.............SNIP

In other words, Ms. Wilson-Raybould was saying that if she intervened in the SNC-Lavalin prosecution at the Prime Minister’s urging, the government would be guilty of committing the sort of offence that it did not commit in the Norman case.

Marie Henein, Vice-Adm. Norman’s defence attorney, alleged government interference as the case unfolded: coaching witnesses, withholding evidence. The allegation of Privy Council Office intervention even prompted the judge presiding over the case to question the independence of the Public Prosecution Service of Canada.

But all governments do everything they can to keep confidential deliberations from being made public. The PPSC stated emphatically that it “has not sought or received instructions in respect of the prosecution of Mr. Norman from the Privy Council Office or any other government department or body.”

Ms. Henein herself praised the integrity of Kathleen Roussel, the federal director of public prosecutions. Staying the charge “tells you that when she thinks you should prosecute, she goes ahead. And when she thinks you shouldn’t, she declines to do so," she told reporters. "That’s the way it should be.”

Yes, there are plenty of unanswered questions: about why the government was so upset about the leak in the first place, about why Mr. Trudeau appeared to assume a charge would be laid before the charge was in fact laid – “not the best framing of words,” Procurement Minister Carla Qualtrough acknowledged on Sunday to Global News – and about why the government was so unco-operative – although again, this is typical of any government.

But questions aren’t facts. And the facts do not support the charge of interference in a criminal prosecution in Vice-Adm. Norman’s case.

The Liberals’ discreditable behaviour in the SNC-Lavalin affair has led many to suspect government meddling in the Norman case as well. But it’s important to remember that in the SNC-Lavalin affair, The Globe and Mail reported serious allegations of attempted political interference by the Prime Minister and his advisers in a criminal case. Those allegations were based on information from credible sources and were validated in testimony before a parliamentary committee. Nothing so substantial has occurred in the Norman case.


https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politic ... osecution/

[The Green Barbarian]

Here I'll go over it again for you. It was Harper, MacKay and Kenney who did an end around the procurement process with Norman.
]

LOL - here we go again. And this "let's blame Harper" nonsense will only get better as the desperation ramps up at Team LIEberal slimeball.

[Pete Podoski]

This is big.

More collateral damage from Justin's persecution of an innocent man.


Second in command of Canadian Forces resigns - issues caused by Norman case cited by Lt. Gen. Paul Wynnyk

The Canadian Forces senior leadership is facing more turmoil after the second highest officer tendered his resignation Tuesday.

Lt. Gen. Paul Wynnyk, who had been the vice chief of the defence staff, gave his notice to Chief of the Defence Staff Gen. Jon Vance Tuesday that he was leaving the Canadian Forces.

Wynnyk was asked to stay on beyond his retirement to fill Vice Adm. Mark Norman’s job only to have that decision abruptly changed by Vance in May, who then reversed yet again in June.

A series of documents provided to Postmedia Wednesday outline the ongoing chaos at National Defence headquarters which has seen the retirement of seven lieutenant generals or vice admirals since last year.

Vance had originally asked Wynnyk to postpone his summer 2019 retirement and stay as vice chief of the defence staff until the summer of 2020.

But after the court case against Norman collapsed, Vance told Wynnyk May 13 that he was putting the vice admiral back into his old job and Wynnyk’s “continued service as the VCDS was no longer in the best interests of the CAF,” according to Wynnyk’s resignation letter provided to Postmedia.

But when Norman, who determined he couldn’t work in what was essentially a poisoned work environment, decided not to return to his old job, Vance then turned again to Wynnyk on June 26 and told him that he could continue to serve as vice chief for another year.

“While I appreciate the change of heart, I respectfully decline and intend to take my release from the Canadian Armed Forces as expeditiously as possible,” Wynnyk wrote to Vance.

The correspondence and other documents were provided to Postmedia by officers supportive of Wynnyk and who are frustrated about Vance’s leadership and the turmoil caused by his removal of Norman based on unsubstantiated allegations from the RCMP.

Since Vance removed Norman in January 2017 three officers have filled the position as vice chief.

Rear Admiral Jeff Zwick will take on the duties of vice chief of the defence, according to additional correspondence from Wynnyk. That will continue until July 29 when the deputy vice chief, Maj.-Gen. Frances Allen returns from leave, Wynnyk added in an internal email.

Wynnyk, in a statement issued by the Canadian Forces Wednesday night after his resignation letter leaked out to journalists, thanked Vance “for the confidence he showed in me when he appointed me as the Vice Chief and for his leadership of the CAF during what have been challenging times recently.”

Vance in a statement thanked Wynnyk for his contribution. “He has been an exceptional leader and an even better friend,” Vance said. “He will be deeply missed.”

Norman had been charged with one count of breach of trust for allegedly leaking information about a Liberal government plan to put on hold a project to convert a commercial vessel into a supply ship for the Royal Canadian Navy. Norman continually denied he did anything wrong and on May 8 the case against him collapsed, with the Crown citing new evidence it could not publicly discuss.

Vance and Norman had been in discussions for him to return to the vice chief job. But on June 26 Norman and the Department of National Defence announced a settlement had been reached and Norman would retire. Neither Norman or the department will discuss the details of the settlement or the reasons for it.

Some of Norman’s supporters have pointed out the senior naval officer would have been returning to what could be described as a less-than-welcoming environment.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had predicted on two occasions that Norman would end up in court, even though at the time no charges had been brought against the officer. A letter from Vance about Norman’s removal — sent only to the most senior staff — was leaked to the news media by someone inside National Defence headquarters within 20 minutes of being distributed. During Norman’s pre-trial hearing, a military witness recounted how a brigadier-general had boasted about attempts within the Canadian Forces to stop Norman from receiving the documents he needed for his legal defence.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/national ... orman-case

[floppi]

Here's what you left out from your article. Wynnyk's time was up and seems like he didn't want to hang around Ottawa anymore is the way I see it.

Postmedia recently reported that Wynnyk had been living in Ottawa on imposed restriction for the last seven years. Wynnyk did not move his home from Edmonton to Ottawa in 2012 when he was appointed as deputy commander of the army. Instead he has been on what is known as imposed restriction and had been receiving separation expenses that cover his apartment rental and parking.

A member of the military can be on imposed restriction for a consecutive period of up to five years. But Vance authorized the additional two years for Wynnyk.

[rustled]

This is big.

More collateral damage from Justin's persecution of an innocent man.


Second in command of Canadian Forces resigns - issues caused by Norman case cited by Lt. Gen. Paul Wynnyk

The Canadian Forces senior leadership is facing more turmoil after the second highest officer tendered his resignation Tuesday.
...

I would think the repercussions will continue for some time.

What the current government did to Admiral Norman is reprehensible.

[floppi]

It's already forgotten in Canadian history. The story never did have any "legs" and still doesn't....even SNC almost scandal is long forgotten. That's why the Liberals are gaining ground and in a month or two they will be ahead in all the polls and in October, imo, they will win the most important poll.

[OKkayak]

and in October, imo, they will win the most important poll.

Not with JT at the helm.

People have learned, he's just not ready.