Canadians have low taxes

Re: Canadians have low taxes

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 4th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Pete Podoski wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:]

Ah yes, CONservative math: do not account for inflation or population growth [icon_lol2.gif] [icon_lol2.gif]

Add it up buddy, the Liberals have spent on average a lower % of GDP (which accounts for both) than Harper and the COnservatives did in the bungle decade.

From your own numbers, the CONservatives increased spending by over 30% - were they "spending like drunken sailors"???

It costs $$$ to keep the economy rolling and provide the necessary services to support our excellent standard of living in Canada. Yup, Canada was very recently ranked #1 in the world for "Quality of life". Way to go Liberals!

What a pile of steamy coilers you just posted hobbyguy.

Trudeau's drunken spend fest has left Canada in a very, very vulnerable position.

Harper's ability to navigate a worst-in-80-years recession with minor stimulus spending is legendary across the G20.

There's no doubt that Harper was far superior to Trudeau's group of jackasses that have Canadians teetering within $200 of insolvency.

Of course, no one expects the uneducated Liberal peanut chuckers to grasp what we're saying here, so I'm likely peeing in the wind.

Here ya go Pete, educate yourself:

The table to look at is "Total Expenses Relative to GDP"

Add it up, you will see that on average the Liberals are spending a lower % of GDP than the Harper CON bunglers did. Exception of course, for Harper's "big lie" chainsaw unsustainable and imprudent late budget aimed purely at a political talking point - which he never achieved - a nonsense "balanced" budget.

Then understand that optimal economic growth is driven by optimal government expenditures.

Yup, that's Nouriel Roubini 'splaining it for you right in the introduction.

It is a balance. Empirically, prudent government budgeting aims for the "sweet spot" range that promotes public good, economic productivity, and the balance with external factors.

One of those external factors is interest rates. Harper's pursuit of a bogus "balanced' budget by means of a chainsaw taken to the budget dropped it out of the sweet spot, forcing Poloz to cut already far too low interest rates that had been far too low for far too long. That continuation of extraordinarily low interest rates, driven by the Harper CON fiscal imprudence (after 2012) resulted in unsustainable asset inflation in various markets - most notably in real estate.

Fiscal prudence is a much broader concept than a simple balance sheet. Roubini recognizes this, although in a very technical manner. IF for example, governments had worried about simple balance sheets during the '08/09 recession, it could easily have blown into a depression. Then one needs to consider many other factors that go into the overall prosperity of the country.

Prosperity of a country actually requires government expenditures. That's pretty straightforward when it comes to civil order, but it also extends into health care, education, and many other areas that need to be accounted for in fiscal prudence. You can not gain economic productivity without an educated and healthy public.

"Prosperity is more than just the accumulation of material wealth, it is also the joy of everyday life and the prospect of an even better life in the future. This is true for individuals as well as nations."

Canada and the UK are top ranked G20 countries for overall prosperity.

Canada is also ranked #1 in the world for Quality of Life in the index released this year.

That is where Harper and the COnservatives have it entirely wrong. Narrowly focusing on material wealth does not a prosperous country make. It is a balance, and that balance requires optimal levels of taxation and government spending. In failing to recognize that, the Harper CONservatives bungled badly, taking Canada from the enviable position engineered by the Liberals of paying down the national debt, to racking up more debt. Having totally fluffed that up, and racking up well over $100 billion in debt, all of a sudden the "big lie" CONservatives profess that they are "fiscally prudent". Horse puckey! NO Conservative government has ever done anything but rack up the national debt.

So Pete, you can try to play the "big lie" game of the CONservatives, but it is patently and transparently not true that the CONservatives are "fiscally prudent". The CONservatives would not know "fiscal prudence" if it smacked them in the face! It is the absolute height of hypocrisy for the CONservatives to be ranting on about fiscal matters, when their record is clearly absolutely terrible. CONservatives never, ever, get the balance right.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.

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Re: Canadians have low taxes

Postby Gixxer » Feb 4th, 2019, 12:45 pm

OKkayak wrote:Too bad we have people dying because it takes two years to get a MRI or surgery.

Right because our health care system is very busy healing ALL our ill.

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Re: Canadians have low taxes

Postby my5cents » Feb 4th, 2019, 1:10 pm

Let's face it our governments (notice the "S") really don't want us to know what "taxes" we really pay, they are hidden in everything.

Yes, there is the Federal and Provincial income tax, pretty easy to figure that out.

Sales tax, GST and PST, again pretty easy to figure out. Some of that is an optional tax, you don't have to buy that item, but then there are necessities like fuel for heating, automobiles, some supplies, clothing etc etc.

Then there is (soon to be was) MSP, fees for licenses, vehicle registration and plating.

One of the most unfair taxes is ownership tax. It doesn't cost a cent more for a city to service a 30 - 40 year old bungalow on a 33 foot lot, than it does a high end home on the same size lot.

Yes, it could be said, "well good the wealthy pay more and they should". I keep thinking of the elderly widow who has lived in the same house for 40 years and the value had gone up stupidly. Yes, I guess she can defer the taxes....

In BC we had lots of "neat" taxes and increases.

Who buys more used cars in BC, the rich or the "less rich" ?

Before the implementation and retraction of the HST, in BC we paid 7% PST on the private purchase of a used car. If we made a retail purchased a new car, we paid 5% GST and 7% PST. When we forced the Liberals to withdraw the HST, they left us with 12% PST for the private purchase of a vehicle, and with the old 5% GST and 7% PST for new vehicles. they said they did that to "make if fair". Right.

Stealing from ICBC was a form of tax.

I loved when the government increased the cost of a driver's license renewal. Not a squeak from anyone. I guess everyone expected "well costs go up and we have to pay the government for the service of issuing driver's licenses".

What does it cost the provincial government to issue a driver's license ? $00.00. Both before and after the increase in the fee. The entire cost is born by ICBC. Another tax, nicely hidden.

Impossible to actually calculate what percentage of our income goes out in taxes.

Also consider, the single mom, or the family that has nothing left at the end of the month spends all their money. The wealth person, earns way more that they can spend, so invests in the maximum RRSP, which reduces taxes, saves a bunch, so no sales taxes paid on that money, etc etc.

But I'd much rather pay what I do, than have the US system. Most of us have no idea how bad their system is. For the low person on the scale, no vacations paid at all. If they are lucky enough to have medical insurance, and many many don't. They are told which doctors they can see, which hospitals to go to, and they pay a deductible and I mean a deductible, like $5000 when something goes wrong.

Talking to a visitor from the US last year, he retired but his wife had to take a job a Macy's. Not for the money, but for the health insurance. I explained that I had it pretty bad in BC, also. I had open heart surgery and it was unreasonably costly. My wife actually had to pay for parking when she came to visit ! He said ya, but what else did you pay for ?

Nothing. N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
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Re: Canadians have low taxes

Postby my5cents » Feb 4th, 2019, 1:23 pm

OKkayak wrote:Too bad we have people dying because it takes two years to get a MRI or surgery.

Generally speaking if you are waiting two years for an MRI (that's not accurate), you are very lucky, because that means that whatever they are testing you for isn't as serious.


Just because you've been sitting in the Emergency department for two hours to have someone look at your finger that might have a splinter in it, doesn't mean you go ahead of the guy who just arrived and has his hand cut off.

I was unlucky enough to be "lucky" and have lots of tests and two surgeries in short order. I had two serious things be detected last year. within the year I had more tests than I can keep track of, including 3 MRI's a zillion other scans etc etc. Resulting in open heart surgery and a kidney removed.

I recall many years ago after my yearly physical a colonoscopy was order for me. I was back at my family doctor's getting my next yearly physical and I complained that it didn't seem right that I was already getting another physical and hadn't had the colonoscopy. He smiled and said, "No, that's good, not bad. If they were in a hurry to get you in that means they really thought something might be wrong. Sometimes waiting is good news."
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