Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Scandal

Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 11th, 2019, 11:35 am

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ethics-commissioner-launches-inquiry-into-allegations-against-pmo/

"Ethics Commissioner Mario Dion has launched an inquiry into allegations the Prime Minister’s Office attempted to pressure Jody Wilson-Raybould when she was justice minister and attorney general to help SNC-Lavalin avoid a criminal trial for corruption and fraud."

Hopefully it does not take too long. This issue deserves more clarity.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby floppi » Feb 11th, 2019, 11:54 am

hobbyguy wrote:https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-ethics-commissioner-launches-inquiry-into-allegations-against-pmo/

"Ethics Commissioner Mario Dion has launched an inquiry into allegations the Prime Minister’s Office attempted to pressure Jody Wilson-Raybould when she was justice minister and attorney general to help SNC-Lavalin avoid a criminal trial for corruption and fraud."

Hopefully it does not take too long. This issue deserves more clarity.


Does he not have to ask Wilson-Raybould for the answers?.....and isn't JT the only person to give out the waiver for her to talk?
So I'm curious to find out what he will uncover because anyone other than Raybould, it's just circumstantial evidence.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby hobbyguy » Feb 11th, 2019, 12:01 pm

Gone_Fishin wrote:
hobbyguy wrote:No wonder there was no "fuss" from any opposition party when this horrid legislation was passed.



Actually, there was.

http://www.danalbas.com/mp-report/chang ... udget-bill

An example of the importance of Committee Stage review can be evidenced by a recent meeting of the Finance Committee that was scrutinizing the Liberal Governments Budget Implementation Act (BIA), Bill C-74.

Despite Prime Minister Trudeau’s election promise to not use omnibus budget legislation, the Finance Committee has been studying a 560 plus page BIA that is, very clearly, another broken promise from the Prime Minister.

One controversial measure that was discovered by the Finance Committee was buried so deeply in this BIA bill, that even Liberal members on the Finance Committee were unaware it existed.

What was this measure?

It has been summarized as legislation that will ease penalties for corporate crime.

Division 20 of the bill proposes that prosecutors can suspend criminal charges against companies in certain cases of corporate wrongdoing.

Ultimately, as this clause proposes an amendment to the criminal code, many view it as a measure that has no business being in a budget related bill and is better suited to be examined by the Justice Committee, where more appropriate examination can occur.

So why propose these changes?

To date the Liberal Government has not indicated the reasons why this legislation has been hidden inside the BIA however other interests have suggested this approach to suspend criminal charges could encourage more companies to come forward to self-report corporate crimes.

My thoughts?

These are important proposed changes that on the surface are alarming and as a result deserve further scrutiny.

Because of this, I have encouraged all Parliamentarians at Finance Committee to support having this clause examined separately by the Justice Committee.

It is important to hear constructive arguments from both sides.

It can be argued that the opportunity to reach a remediation agreement may offer restitution to victims without litigation in cases where wrongdoing may have occurred but the chances of a successful conviction are slim.

However, critics believe this approach could actually increase corporate crime and undermine public confidence in the system.

I remain of the view that while this proposal involves important criminal code amendments, it does not belong within a budget implementation bill.

My question this week:

Should large scale criminal code amendments be restricted to bills that come before the Justice Committee or do you agree with the Liberal Government these can be part of a budget bill, as part of an overall plan?


That isn't really a "fuss". How many people visit Dan's website??

This should have been an issue the opposition leaders and shadow ministers hammered on. I can not recall any serious fuss.

I researched back and found a muted questioning of this "remediation" provision. The names of the critics are all back bench critics. Credit to Dan Albas for raising concerns, but where was Jagmeet? Andrew? Elizabeth? or anyone with real political clout?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-budget-corporate-wrongdoing-1.4664490

https://globalnews.ca/news/4210266/critics-trudeau-liberals-bill-ease-corporate-crime-penalties/

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/hill-one-legal-system-for-corporations-another-for-the-rest-of-us

I find no reference in any of the articles I found contemporary of any serious opposition challenge to this. Only a single article by CBC, Global, and the Ottawa Citizen. None in the Globe and Mail, the closest time frame article being a June op-ed supporting the change: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-why-canada-needs-deferred-prosecution-agreements-in-our-courtrooms/

It seems that in general, all the party leaders were "fine" with this remediation legislation - and I find that odoriferous.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Merry » Feb 11th, 2019, 12:42 pm

Pete Podoski wrote:I'm not a Tyee fan, but this is an article with an interesting concept: Prime Minister Jody Wilson-Raybould.

https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2019/02/08/ ... C-Lavalin/

This is a good assessment of the state the Liberal Party's popularity (or lack of) under Trudeau's leadership:
This is the guy who annoyed China by invoking the rule of law in arresting Meng Wanzhou in Vancouver in December. Just how serious is his dedication to the rule of law if it applies to foreign corporations like Huawei but not to SNC-Lavalin?

The Liberals must consider the Prairies a lost cause. Ontario will get Doug Ford and and Andrew Scheer doing a Bob and Doug McKenzie act aimed at laughing Trudeau off the stage. Maxime Bernier’s People’s Party will snipe at the Tories from the right, and the NDP from the left, but to little avail.

B.C., meanwhile, is already split about the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion, and its opponents will exploit the scandal to the utmost. The Lower Mainland Liberal vote will dwindle, while the NDP and Greens compete for disillusioned Liberal voters. The 2019 election will be a spectacular train wreck that could see the Liberals go the way of the 1920s Progressives, who merged with the Conservatives only to merge again in the 1990s with Reform/Alliance.

Desperate times demand desperate measures, and the Liberals have rarely seen a time as desperate as this. The man who brought them back to power and won them worldwide admiration has suddenly become a liability. As such, for the good of the party, he must go.

Trudeau might keep his seat and even run again, but he can’t remain prime minister while his opponents (including many in his own party) condemn him as a corporate utensil. He must resign as party leader and prime minister.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Merry » Feb 11th, 2019, 12:47 pm

This is good news:
federal ethics commissioner Mario Dion is looking into allegations the Prime Minister's Office improperly tried to help SNC-Lavalin avoid criminal prosecution.

https://www.prpeak.com/ethics-czar-look ... 630045More good news:

Word of the probe came shortly after a Liberal MP joined opposition calls for a parliamentary investigation into the matter.

New Brunswick MP Wayne Long said in a statement posted to social media that he was "extremely troubled" when the allegation surfaced last week and nothing he has heard since has made him feel less unsettled.

"How the law treats individuals or corporations in our society is not, and should never be, incumbent upon the political pressure they can exert upon politicians," he said.

Long stressed he's not "rushing to any judgment" in the matter, but believes "a full and transparent investigation" by the House of Commons justice committee is necessary to provide answers in the affair. For that reason, he said he supports an opposition motion to launch an inquiry.

Good to see that not all politicians are slaves to their Party; some of them actually have integrity.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby floppi » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:23 pm

Merry wrote:This is good news:
federal ethics commissioner Mario Dion is looking into allegations the Prime Minister's Office improperly tried to help SNC-Lavalin avoid criminal prosecution.

https://www.prpeak.com/ethics-czar-look ... 630045More good news:

Word of the probe came shortly after a Liberal MP joined opposition calls for a parliamentary investigation into the matter.

New Brunswick MP Wayne Long said in a statement posted to social media that he was "extremely troubled" when the allegation surfaced last week and nothing he has heard since has made him feel less unsettled.

"How the law treats individuals or corporations in our society is not, and should never be, incumbent upon the political pressure they can exert upon politicians," he said.

Long stressed he's not "rushing to any judgment" in the matter, but believes "a full and transparent investigation" by the House of Commons justice committee is necessary to provide answers in the affair. For that reason, he said he supports an opposition motion to launch an inquiry.

Good to see that not all politicians are slaves to their Party; some of them actually have integrity.


I believe his appointed by Parliment so he's not suppose to have a party affliation. He is still looking at gathering up circumstantial evidence.....not that solid, imo.

ETA: My mistake. He was appointed by the Liberals and approved by the House of Commons.
Last edited by floppi on Feb 11th, 2019, 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Gone_Fishin » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:34 pm

Trudeau "welcomes" the investigation, but just yesterday he had Lametti saying there was no need for one. Today, Lametti's mouth is sewn shut with Butthread. The nincompoops in the Trudeau Liberal gang are tripping over one another as they rush to hide from the fecal matter that is an inch or two from the fan. Trudeau thinks he'll get off with another $200 fine. Yeah, I doubt that, Justin. Nice hair though.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Glacier » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:45 pm

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-n ... -1.5014538

A pretrial hearing in the breach-of-trust case against Vice-Admiral Mark Norman took a sudden political turn Monday when the defence alleged that prosecutors have been talking trial strategy with the bureaucratic arm of Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's office.

The federal government is fighting defence requests for the release of notes from meetings between officials at the Privy Council Office (PCO) and Crown lawyers.

In an email sent to Norman's lawyers on Friday, one of the lead prosecutors, Barbara Mercier, said the documents being sought by the defence are going to be censored because they deal with "trial strategy."

That prompted defence counsel Christine Mainville to accuse the Prime Minister's Office of trying to direct the case.

She also said the Crown should not be discussing strategy with PCO — the arm of the bureaucracy that supports the work of the Prime Minister's Office and cabinet — because it instigated the investigation into an alleged leak of cabinet secrets Norman has been accused of orchestrating.

Mainville said the discussion with PCO is "more concerning" than the allegations at the centre of the SNC Lavalin controversy because it involves direct dealings between the PCO and prosecutors.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby floppi » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:51 pm

https://globalnews.ca/news/4948585/ethi ... c-lavalin/

Trudeau said he is not opposed to the probe.

We welcome the ethics commissioner’s investigation,” he said in a press conference in Vancouver, Wilson-Raybould’s backyard.

“I think it’s extremely important that Canadians can continue to have confidence in our justice system.”

While Wilson-Raybould did not appear with him, Trudeau said he has met with her twice during his visit.

Trudeau said Wilson-Raybould recounted in one of those meetings something he had apparently told her in the fall, which was when the public prosecution service first issued its refusal to enter into talks to cut a deal with SNC-Lavalin.

“She confirmed for me a conversation we had this fall, where I told her directly that any decisions on matters involving the director of public prosecutions were hers alone,” he said.

“The minister considers that because of questions of privilege, she cannot add anything to this.”

He added that he has asked Attorney General David Lametti to provide him recommendations on whether solicitor-client privilege should be waived, which Wilson-Raybould has suggested are preventing her from confirming or denying the allegations...........

“It is important to remember that while the attorney general sits at a certain distance from his cabinet colleagues, in Canada, unlike in other countries, he does not work in isolation from them or the important experiences or considerations those colleagues bring to the table,” Lametti told a crowd of lawyers at the Canadian Bar Association meeting in Ottawa.

“These discussions can improve the quality of decision making. But there is a line that cannot be crossed. Telling an attorney general what a decision ought to be be: that would be interference.”



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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Merry » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:52 pm

To Floppi: My final comment in my previous post was referring to MP Long (not, as you incorrectly assumed, to the ethics commissioner)

Merry wrote:Word of the probe came shortly after a Liberal MP joined opposition calls for a parliamentary investigation into the matter.

New Brunswick MP Wayne Long said in a statement posted to social media that he was "extremely troubled" when the allegation surfaced last week and nothing he has heard since has made him feel less unsettled.

"How the law treats individuals or corporations in our society is not, and should never be, incumbent upon the political pressure they can exert upon politicians," he said.


floppi wrote: I believe his appointed by Parliment so he's not suppose to have a party affliation. He is still looking at gathering up circumstantial evidence.....not that solid, imo.

ETA: My mistake. He was appointed by the Liberals and approved by the House of Commons.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Merry » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:54 pm

Glacier wrote:https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mark-norman-davie-shipyard-breach-trust-1.5014538

Liberal malfeasance abounds.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby The Green Barbarian » Feb 11th, 2019, 1:56 pm

floppi wrote:
Trudeau said he is not opposed to the probe.



This works on so many different levels.
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby floppi » Feb 11th, 2019, 2:15 pm

Merry wrote:To Floppi: My final comment in my previous post was referring to MP Long (not, as you incorrectly assumed, to the ethics commissioner)

Merry wrote:Word of the probe came shortly after a Liberal MP joined opposition calls for a parliamentary investigation into the matter.

New Brunswick MP Wayne Long said in a statement posted to social media that he was "extremely troubled" when the allegation surfaced last week and nothing he has heard since has made him feel less unsettled.

"How the law treats individuals or corporations in our society is not, and should never be, incumbent upon the political pressure they can exert upon politicians," he said.


floppi wrote: I believe his appointed by Parliment so he's not suppose to have a party affliation. He is still looking at gathering up circumstantial evidence.....not that solid, imo.

ETA: My mistake. He was appointed by the Liberals and approved by the House of Commons.


Oh ok.......then he's like an outsider looking in so I'm not totally surprised by the comments. It's not the first and I suspect not the last criticism against his own party....that is until he get kicked out.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brun ... -1.4342744
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Merry » Feb 11th, 2019, 2:32 pm

floppi wrote:Oh ok.......then he's like an outsider looking in so I'm not totally surprised by the comments. It's not the first and I suspect not the last criticism against his own party....that is until he get kicked out.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brun ... -1.4342744

Clearly this is a man with integrity, who prioritizes the wishes of his constituents above party affiliation. And for that, as you so rightly point out, he may well be disciplined by the Liberal Party. But does that make him wrong for speaking his mind?

As I notice the link in my original post (the one that about this Liberal MP calling for an investigation into the SNC affair) is no longer working, I'm now providing a second link so that people are aware of why we're discussing this individual in this forum
https://globalnews.ca/news/4948176/just ... esigation/
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Re: Breaking: Trudeau, Raybould, SNC, and PMO Corruption Sca

Postby Ka-El » Feb 11th, 2019, 2:38 pm

Merry wrote: Liberal malfeasance abounds.

Back and forth we go. What to do? We elected the Harper Conservatives in 2006 due to the malfeasance and attitude of arrogance and entitlement of the Paul Martin (and previously Chretien) Liberals, and in 2015 we had to turf Harper for much the same reasons. Now we have this perfectly timed scandal facing the Liberals (already again) and if this brings them down what is going to change? I would vote for the Conservatives again in a heartbeat if they had someone more credible than dimples leading the party.
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