Why a left-leaning centrist will support Bernier

[Ka-El]

I simply have trouble believing or trusting Quebec politicians, western Canada has been kicked to the curb to many times by PM’s from Quebec. Bernier can create any policy he wants to try to get himself elected.

Not sure that Quebecers are necessarily going to be supportive of him just because he is Quebecois. His views on Dairy supply-side management and corporate welfare are not necessarily going to be popular among all in Quebec. Still, it is always prudent to be suspicious of people’s motives and I am still looking to hear more from Bernier as this campaign gets going (its getting harder and harder to listen to either Trudeau or dimples without knashing my teeth).

To state the obvious, Conservative MP Maxime Bernier's attempts to irrupt into the liberal orthodoxy of identity politics is a bit rich.

Bernier is, after all, an MP from Quebec, where most people regard their language and culture as something ennobling and worthy of special status and protection, which is the original and biggest identity politics issue Canada has faced. It in fact nearly broke up the country.

That said, Bernier's contention — that identity politics promotes an endless splintering of the polity into ever-narrower shards of cohorts, all of whom believe their ethnicity or religious beliefs or sexuality merit special consideration — is worth discussing. Dismissing Bernier as a nativist, or white nationalist, or simply racist is just more of the reflexive, ad hominem groupthink that's currently so fashionable.

<snip>

It is the Liberal way. If you don't agree with us, we'll smile and explain our policies more slowly, and if after that you still disagree, well, you're a climate change denier, or a racist, or an ideologue not worth the effort of engagement.

So, then, Bernier and his tweets about overdoing diversity. He's a politician who wants to lead his party, and it's easy enough to write him off as an opportunist who's grabbing for a wedge issue.

But it's at least worth having a discussion about his notion that by retreating into ever smaller tribes and inward-facing cohorts, Canada is on its way to standing collectively for nothing at all.

Personally, I'm deeply suspicious of phrases like "common values," or even "patriotism." I dislike nationalism of any sort, and I regard Canada as a convenient modus vivendi in which I am content to participate. I distrust loud declamations about how we live in the best country in the world, etc.

But a common identity can be unifying, even if it rests on foundational myths, as most patriotism does. And unity works.
Say what you like about the Americans, but they've done a remarkable job of creating common identity, despite their insane political polarization. Within one generation, or even earlier, immigrants tend to identify first and foremost as Americans, and only secondarily as whatever their ancestry might be. No other nation has accomplished that, and it is undeniably useful; it creates impermeable unity in crisis.

If that is what Bernier wants for Canada, well, fine, let's talk about that.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/maxime- ... -1.4792134

[Mordu]

Ahhh, I might consider stink-voting for Max just as people voted for Ford Nation and MAGA. You know, culture jamming.

[floppi]

My take is that Bernier's party will go the way of the dodo bird and Manning's Reform Party. With the exception of the NDP, Canada
have been a two party system since the 1800's and I'm pretty sure the PPC will exit stage left by 2023. It takes enormous energy and dedication to build a brand spanking shiny new party from the ground up and imo, Bernier doesn't seem to fit that bill.

Further, Bernier himself doesn’t provide much assurance that the PPC will be anything other than a flash in the pan. Building new parties is just plain hard work. Ask Preston Manning, who spent countless hours as leader of the nascent Reform Party of Canada, working to build the party organization before its breakthrough in the 1993 federal election. One must build party organizations from the ground up, and that includes shaking countless hands and delivering myriad speeches in legion-hall basements. The work is mundane and the payoff is always in doubt.

Bernier’s track record as a minister and MP contains amusing anecdotes which suggest that he perhaps lacks the tenacity and discipline to carry out this challenging task. For example: in 2008, Bernier forgot a confidential briefing document at his then-girlfriend’s apartment and, as a result, resigned as minister of foreign affairs. Bernier was also known for indulging in periodic catnaps during Conservative caucus meetings. As the story goes, Bernier’s surreptitious snoozing did not escape former prime minister Stephen Harper’s notice.

We all make mistakes, and God knows I’ve been tempted to give my eyes a rest during meetings here at the University of Manitoba. But I’m not the one proposing to build an entirely new party from scratch; Bernier is.

I would be shocked to see the PPC get even one member in the House this year.

http://news.umanitoba.ca/op-ed-berniers ... wont-last/

[Catsumi]

From Kael's post:

"That said, Bernier's contention — that identity politics promotes an endless splintering of the polity into ever-narrower shards of cohorts, all of whom believe their ethnicity or religious beliefs or sexuality merit special consideration — is worth discussing. Dismissing Bernier as a nativist, or white nationalist, or simply racist is just more of the reflexive, ad hominem groupthink that's currently so fashionable."

The whole article is worth reading; the above paragraph points to the issue some are experiencing here. Just because he is from Quebec shouldn't disqualify him from a leadership role especially when he wishes to clean up the special treatment Quebec has received from the ROC.

Those who want Canada to continue wallowing in the morass we find ourselves now will cast their votes in favor of Libs or Cons. Nothing will change, just that it will get worse.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

[Hurtlander]

^^^ well, we just don't seem to grow a crop of them here in the west, do we?

The Westerners are too smart to go into politics. (And just post on Castanet as to how bad they all are.)

The reality is that the heavy hitters in the back rooms of both the Liberal and Conservative parties, all part of the Bay Street and Quebec political establishment won’t stand for a western PM, Just look at how Mulroney muscled Joe Clark out of the way..
Harper was an anomaly because he came up through a newly created party.

[Hurtlander]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him think.

Is that like you can lead a horticultural, but you can’t make her like it..

(thats the Pacifico talking )

[Catsumi]

Good one, but rejoice with the rest of us. Butts has resigned!

Have a Pacifico for moi

[Ka-El]

Ahhh, I might consider stink-voting for Max just as people voted for Ford Nation and MAGA. You know, culture jamming.

If we somehow elect Bernier to be Prime Minister of Canada, then he will have four years to prove whether his ideas will work or not. Unlike, the Liberals and Conservatives, who will either way just slither along as always, Bernier will have been elected as an attack against the status quo of ongoing corruption and attitudes of entitlement by each of the closest contenders, and the electorate will be watching him closely. If he is just more of the same, then he will be gone next election and we can all return to the status quo just needing to decide which side of the pendulum to start on. We have nothing to lose by electing Bernier to be Prime Minister and everything to gain. It is so much more than worth the shot! Let’s go for it. Spread the word!

[Mordu]

Scheer made a nice speech in Nisku, and I drank beer with Joe Clark and supported him. But then Andy blew it on my stickler.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/alexand ... -1.4932698

Which I know Joe would have supported . . ..

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/former- ... -1.2549608

But seriously, earlier on this forum I expressed my interest in Max. My single reason being for pipelines, energy security, and equalization.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019 ... stops.html

But my single overriding doubt is for his stance on the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration, because, including Max, so many people, Scheer included, have misinterpreted it and have had their ignorance spread around and accepted to the point of polluting and putting a shameful stigma on our Alberta convoy to Ottawa.

http://www.facebook.com/hon.maximeberni ... 479073703/

I just don’t want to be in with a stupid crowd like that for the next four years . . . unless . . ..

So, come on, as one left-leaning centrist who's vote is always up for grabs, to another left-leaning centrist who seems to be the same, sell me on the chance that Max might quell any spurious rhetoric about the Pact and stick with it now that it's been signed.

Too tall an order?

[Ka-El]

But seriously, earlier on this forum I expressed my interest in Max. My single reason being for pipelines, energy security, and equalization.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2019 ... stops.html

Yes, all good reasons to support Bernier for a stronger Canada.

But my single overriding doubt is for his stance on the Global Compact for Safe, Orderly and Regular Migration, because, including Max, so many people, Scheer included, have misinterpreted it and have had their ignorance spread around and accepted to the point of polluting and putting a shameful stigma on our Alberta convoy to Ottawa.

http://www.facebook.com/hon.maximeberni ... 479073703/

Agreed, but with all the misinformation being spread around these days there is some reason to suggest that stepping back right now and for the next four years may have some positive impacts. For starters, the conditions that lead to the agreement are not going to go away so we will be forced to continue having dialogue. As I said before, in the short term Bernier’s immigration policies will give us a moment to stop and assess while allowing for the irrational fears of some to subside. Then in the long term, while the truths around the issue become more self-evident over time, we will see how Bernier responds.

I just don’t want to be in with a stupid crowd like that for the next four years . . . unless . . ..

Could you imagine four years of the partisan Cons going all out on convincing us how great a job dimples is doing?

So, come on, as one left-leaning centrist who's vote is always up for grabs, to another left-leaning centrist who seems to be the same, sell me on the chance that Max might quell any spurious rhetoric about the Pact and stick with it now that it's been signed. Too tall an order?

Can’t say. We will have to see. But I do know we have nothing to lose and everything to gain by supporting Bernier to be Prime Minister of Canada right now. The only realistic alternatives are either Trudeau or dimples, and quite frankly, I would be embarrassed for Canada should either of them become PM. This is our chance to turf both of them. Remember, Bernier will be on a tight four-year leash to deliver and if he doesn't, the option of going back to the status quo will always be there.

[Catsumi]

^^^^ Yes, and should Bernier foul-up I will be the first to strike a match to the tinder pile at his feet.

We must do better. It is only fear holding us back from making positive changes.

[Mordu]

Okay, I'll watch and think about it. Maybe show up when there's some action in town. That's a better tell than the media.

[Cactusflower]

Okay, I'll watch and think about it. Maybe show up when there's some action in town. That's a better tell than the media.

You? A left-leaning centrist? That's a good one! And I won't be discussing this topic because to tell you the truth, unless something drastically changes between now and October, I probably won't be voting in the next federal election.......for the first time since I was old enough to vote.

[Merry]

Bernier may, or may not, do well in the election. But you’re in Dreamland if you think he has a chance of forming Government.

If Bernier does well, it’ll be four more years of Trudeau.

[Mordu]

Okay, I'll watch and think about it. Maybe show up when there's some action in town. That's a better tell than the media.

You? A left-leaning centrist? That's a good one! And I won't be discussing this topic because to tell you the truth, unless something drastically changes between now and October, I probably won't be voting in the next federal election.......for the first time since I was old enough to vote.

Okay, I'll confess. I'm a Greenie.

I got a petition from Liz for you if you want to sign it.

You know, on that other subject we've been discussing.

But if you're goin' on a holiday from politics, too . . ..

BTW, take it easy on the piña coladas until you get used to them. I wouldn't want the coconut milk to liquify your bowels.