So people don't think pipelines are safe eh?

[typhoon44]

Safer doesn't mean safe.

You're right, safer doesn't mean safe. But it does mean safer, hence the expression

Find another way.

I'm open to suggestions. What are your examples of other ways to bring the product to the market?

Why do there have to be suggestions? The answer just may be no if a safe delivery mechanism cannot be found.
We don't have industries that produce toxic waste in Canada because it is almost impossible to dispose of it.

[Cactusflower]

Safer doesn't mean safe.

You're right, safer doesn't mean safe. But it does mean safer, hence the expression

Find another way.

I'm open to suggestions. What are your examples of other ways to bring the product to the market?

Ask Premier Notley. She has just announced that her rail cars are all set to roll. (I posted it on the UWR thread.)

[KevinJP]

Maybe Horgan will find a way to block those trains from coming into BC, just like he did with the pipeline.

[OKkayak]

Why do there have to be suggestions?

Because, contrary to popular fantasy, the world still runs on oil and will for many, many years to come, we have oil and we need to get it to where it needs to go. Thats why we need suggestions :)

Canapucks for bitumen:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e34082304/

And they float, so shape 'em into yellow duckies, rail 'em to Mount Robson, and float 'em down the Fraser to load onto container ships.

Works for me

[Cactusflower]

Maybe Horgan will find a way to block those trains from coming into BC, just like he did with the pipeline.

It should be easier to block the trains if one considers the opinions of the usual suspects on these forums. According to them, rail transport of bitumen is dangerous, whereas pipeline transport is safe, even though they've been proven wrong many times over.

Shall I post those links again?

[The Green Barbarian]

It should be easier to block the trains if one considers the opinions of the usual suspects on these forums. According to them, rail transport of bitumen is dangerous, whereas pipeline transport is safe, even though they've been proven wrong many times over.

Shall I post those links again?

Go ahead, post away. It won't change the fact that pipelines are much safer. Transport by rail is just stupid. And using rail to haul oil means that other items that can't be sent by pipeline are not able to be transported. Anyone opposing pipelines has to be dumber than a bag of hammers.

[dle]

...so I guess I'm being Capt'n Obvious here but if that oil had been in a pipeline this Manitoba derailment wouldn't have caused an oil spill.



I'm also getting a bit sick of people (Andrew Scheer for one) trying to make like Trudeau is against the pipeline going through by making (IMHO) stupid statements like in this article:


https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/24 ... es-capital:

Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer spoke of his party's willingness to build pipelines. "It is time Canada has a prime minister that is proud of our energy sector."

Trudeau is not high up on my Christmas card list these days but in this particular matter he did authorize the purchase of a dang pipeline to run the oil (bitumen). He was met with extreme opposition from several corners and the thing sits in abeyance now. Where was Scheer then if his party is so into providing pipelines, when Trudeau was in full gear to get it through? If he's all for Canada as he claims, Scheer's side of the floor should have agreed with the building of the pipeline at the time, and stood in support of it, whether it was a Liberal venture or not.

I'm getting so tired of all the posturing and game playing done by politicians while they play silly buggers with our money. They don't give 2 hoots about what's good for Canada - they give 2 hoots how they can make their party look like the better deal in the game of smoke and mirrors. If these guys really cared about Canada, they'd pull together despite their party colours to do the BEST for Canada. Whatever side Trudeau takes on a matter, Scheer makes sure to take the exact opposite WHEN IT SUITS HIS PURPOSES. I'm not saying he's the only polly who does this but this pipeline debacle is really getting on my last nerve and is wasting my tax money big time.

Get the damn pipeline onboard, get people to work, run the ocean tankers to stop the spills from derailments and/or transport truck accidents (which are not easy to clean up and the environment really suffers once it seeps into the ground and overland transport by truck or rail is not governed by as many rules and safeguards as ocean tanker transport) and stop all the b.s.

They all must think we just blew into town with the egg money. They need to get their *bleep* together and fight for CANADA, ALL OF CANADA, not their own individual agendas or ideals. Sick of it all BIGTIME.

[Cactusflower]

^^I would be giving you a huge thumbs up right now if you had just omitted that line about getting the pipeline built. I will never agree to risking the health of our land, rivers, and oceans by any form of bitumen transport, especially dilbit transport.

[dle]

Notley has ZERO CHOICES. If rail is the only way she can move their oil (not that she chooses to move it that way - she CHOSE a much safer way and that was kiboshed)....the rail it is!

We have to realize oil is not going away. It's been part of Canada for eons and will continue to be part of our future. All of the environmental blocks that are put up, all of the political chest-bumping, all of the indigenous arguments, none of it is going to stop the oil - and only if we haven't the brains God gave lettuce would we try to. We just have to band together to do it wisely - but do it we must, and fast, before another train derailment or......

So, every time there is a derailment and oil spills....everytime there is a semi in an accident and leakage happens....the people who said "no" to pipeline transport can stand up and take the heat because that's exactly where it rightfully will land.

It's all well and good to stomp feet and say "no oil going over this land, or through this waterway" but have to move it somehow so we have to be smart about things, not stubborn.

This is Canada - every province and our territories - whether some of us like it or not - is part of it and we all have to work together, not at swords points, to move this commodity for the good of us all.

[dle]

^^I would be giving you a huge thumbs up right now if you had just omitted that line about getting the pipeline built. I will never agree to risking the health of our land, rivers, and oceans by any form of bitumen transport, especially dilbit transport.

Oh, I hear you and I agree to a point....I know that it needs extreme precaution but it's going to move one way or the other. What would you rather see - transport in a pipeline with very high safety guidelines and construction and the lowest risk (note I didn't say risk-free - nothing is), or transport on a rail with our old, rickety rail lines and oil cars, derailments that happen much more frequently that ocean tanker spills, or pipeline breaks, and/or by semi which are cracking up on a daily basis all over due to driver inexperience, lack of training, trucks in poor repair, roads that were surveyed by a snake and remain as damn goat trails today with extreme levels of traffic and winter hell etc etc.

In addition, IF a leak/spill were to happen in the ocean as bad as that is, it is much easier to contain quickly and disperse than if it leaks/spills on land.

It's not a perfect scenario but it is the lesser of the two evils - if I had my choice I would pick no evils but that's not on the table. OIL IS NOT GOING TO DISAPPEAR AND WE HAVE TO MOVE IT. Period. So....we have to take the SAFEST route and make sure technology is at it's highest to do our best to move it.

[Mordu]

And that's the NEB's mandate.

[vegas1500]

Trudeau is not high up on my Christmas card list these days but in this particular matter he did authorize the purchase of a dang pipeline to run the oil (bitumen). He was met with extreme opposition from several corners and the thing sits in abeyance now. Where was Scheer then if his party is so into providing pipelines, when Trudeau was in full gear to get it through? If he's all for Canada as he claims, Scheer's side of the floor should have agreed with the building of the pipeline at the time, and stood in support of it, whether it was a Liberal venture or not.

Personally I think Trudeau is a moron not fit to run a McDonalds let alone a country. I believe he bought the pipeline to make sure it doesn’t happen. What better way to make sure something fails......buy it. He has zero intention on trying to make it happen.

[Cactusflower]

^^I would be giving you a huge thumbs up right now if you had just omitted that line about getting the pipeline built. I will never agree to risking the health of our land, rivers, and oceans by any form of bitumen transport, especially dilbit transport.

Oh, I hear you and I agree to a point....I know that it needs extreme precaution but it's going to move one way or the other. What would you rather see - transport in a pipeline with very high safety guidelines and construction and the lowest risk (note I didn't say risk-free - nothing is), or transport on a rail with our old, rickety rail lines and oil cars, derailments that happen much more frequently that ocean tanker spills, or pipeline breaks, and/or by semi which are cracking up on a daily basis all over due to driver inexperience, lack of training, trucks in poor repair, roads that were surveyed by a snake and remain as damn goat trails today with extreme levels of traffic and winter hell etc etc.

In addition, IF a leak/spill were to happen in the ocean as bad as that is, it is much easier to contain quickly and disperse than if it leaks/spills on land.

It's not a perfect scenario but it is the lesser of the two evils - if I had my choice I would pick no evils but that's not on the table. OIL IS NOT GOING TO DISAPPEAR AND WE HAVE TO MOVE IT. Period. So....we have to take the SAFEST route and make sure technology is at it's highest to do our best to move it.

It's not on the table because government and industry refuse to put it on the table. Other nations are investing heavily in renewable energy. Why is Canada so slow at getting out of the starting gate? Do we want to meet our climate commitments or not?

I read a lot of moaning and groaning about the carbon tax, but nobody wants to address renewable energy, which is the only way out of this mess we're in.

[Smurf]

No matter what the way out is it is going to take a long time and a ton of money. Petroleum is going to be around for decades even if it is just to manufacture the renewable's and get them installed. Farmers have to have it to work their farms and get product to market and feed us. There is nothing on the horizon to replace it any time soon. There is just no instant or even quick replacement for petroleum because it is everywhere.

Alberta's petroleum products give Canada a large majority of that money to pay for change, like it or not. The sooner we get these products to market, the sooner the change will come.

[Cactusflower]

Alberta's petroleum products give Canada a large majority of that money to pay for change.

Then why isn't that money being used for the change we desperately need?