ERT training - psychological warfare

[Vacancyrate]

like is freaking out the suspect of a B&E a good idea ?? because calling in a small army is by no means de escalating a serious situation and by all means freaking a crime suspect out which in turn can make them do something even worse...it was a B&E

Alledged B&E.

Great point though. I read the story and I immediately thought they kicked up the stakes to LIFE OR DEATH when the camo guys showed up. This is all routine police work.

A burglar is not a crisis or emergency. When I was a kid they caught a guy breaking into the house down the road. A cruiser showed up and they chased the guy down the back alley when he ran. If that happened today it would have turned into a 8 hour standoff.

[WalterWhite]

just a slight difference to anyone with common sense.

You used the term enemy combatant.

A speeder in a sports car "willingly endangers society"
A wall street criminal trader "willingly endangers society"
A publisher of Hate Speech "willingly endangers society".

Anyone of those people "could have a gun" too.

- and you missed the common sense part.

[Fancy]

Alledged B&E.

Great point though. I read the story and I immediately thought they kicked up the stakes to LIFE OR DEATH when the camo guys showed up. This is all routine police work.

So totally ignoring the guy in the house didn't belong there, was distraught, front line police officers decided to let the experts handle it and if they decide it was not in their scope of work YOU get to decide it's routine police work? Good grief.

[WalterWhite]

like is freaking out the suspect of a B&E a good idea ?? because calling in a small army is by no means de escalating a serious situation and by all means freaking a crime suspect out which in turn can make them do something even worse...it was a B&E

Alledged B&E.

Great point though. I read the story and I immediately thought they kicked up the stakes to LIFE OR DEATH when the camo guys showed up. This is all routine police work.

A burglar is not a crisis or emergency. When I was a kid they caught a guy breaking into the house down the road. A cruiser showed up and they chased the guy down the back alley when he ran. If that happened today it would have turned into a 8 hour standoff.

Your myopic viewpoint glosses over the facts of your own tale. This subject didn't run, but instead gave reason to believe he was armed and barricading himself in the house. Again, just a slight difference.

[Fancy]

The police had to suddenly retreat - there would have been a reason for that.

[Vacancyrate]

and you missed the common sense part.

Well Walter, nobody said being the good guys is easy.

The bad guys shoot first and make excuses later. That's why they are called the bad guys.

[Fancy]

Another reason ERT was called out:

Mounties say the ERT was required because removing Christenson required high-angle rope skills.

https://globalnews.ca/news/5223046/tree ... -arrested/

Betcha ERT enjoyed getting out to use their skills on this one.

[Vacancyrate]

[
This subject didn't run, but instead gave reason to believe he was armed and barricading himself in the house. Again, just a slight difference.

How do you know the guy gave reason to believe he was armed?

The police can say that, but nobody is checking. They can say whatever they want and be justified. Sounds like the guy was not armed, so is that bad police-work? Nope, it gets lumped into "You never know better to be safe than sorry!"

Which brings us back to ***anyone can be armed*** so ERT can be used whenever they feel like it.

There is no oversight and there are no punishments or consequences for overusing ERT, even if it they cost $$$.

Put it this way - should there be CLEAR RULES for when ERT is deployed?

Or should it be completely left up to the guy who did or didnt get his morning coffee?

[Fancy]

How do you know the guy gave reason to believe he was armed?

Why would the RCMP all of a sudden back off?

[Fancy]

Put it this way - should there be CLEAR RULES for when ERT is deployed?

Why they are called out has been given a couple of times in this thread.

In this case I think there were other witnesses that contributed to what the RCMP already knew and how they should proceed. If the man broke into the house that he didn't live in, pretty sure that's a B&E.

[Vacancyrate]

Why would the RCMP all of a sudden back off?

We know the police think using ERT is "fun and exciting" as shown by the news article I posted. They love the toys and they want as much real world training time as they can get even if the reason they are there is questionable.

The RCMP might back off and call in ERT because someone was lazy or they didn't want to assume risk (AKA do their job) and ERT deployments are fun and more more exciting than pulling over speeders on Gordon Ave.

I've see professionals and engineers overuse tools at work for entertainment purposes. If there are no consequences people being paid to lift sacks of flour by hand will use a boom crane to do the job when the boss isn't looking. It's not as if the police are immune to human behavior patterns.

There are no consequences for saying "He might have a gun, better bring in ERT". Very easy fabricate and no consequences for doing so. If there is no gun and there never was a gun - so what? If the suspect ends up getting shot because the police escalated the situation, no skin off their backs.

[Fancy]

The RCMP might back off and call in ERT because someone was lazy or they didn't want to assume risk (AKA do their job) and ERT deployments are fun and more more exciting than pulling over speeders on Gordon Ave.

Personal opinion isn't a fact and considering the RCMP that backed off I don't think were part of the ERT team so really irrelevant and pointless to compare them to pulling over speeders. Could have been possible witnesses that provided information.

[W105]

just asking because I do not know..but who does the paperwork when the ERT are called in for a crime/incident ?? the local officers where it's happening or ERT when they take control ??

and yes the proper paperwork in order is critical for a conviction..

[Vacancyrate]

Personal opinion isn't a fact and considering the RCMP that backed off I don't think were part of the ERT team so really irrelevant and pointless to compare them to pulling over speeders. Could have been possible witnesses that provided information.

I didn't compare it to speeders, is your computer broken?

I said calling in the ERT was a lot more exciting/fun than pulling over speeders. Castanet has a LIVE FEED all afternoon it was quite the media circus. All it took was a cop to say "I think the guy may be armed" and now his whole afternoon is taken up with a fun standoff, complete with a bullhorn and yellow police tape. Plus he didnt have to risk anything at all and he still gets his wages for the day.

I wonder who the lucky officer was that got to say "Come out with your hands up"? Fun stuff !!!

If there are no consequences for calling in ERT and we have apparently limitless tax-dollars to throw to the RCMP for such activities, what is stopping the RCMP from calling in ERT whenever they feel like it?

Maybe the city of Kelowna should send out some snowplows today.

It's kinda cold and you never know.

[Fancy]

just asking because I do not know..but who does the paperwork when the ERT are called in for a crime/incident ?? the local officers where it's happening or ERT when they take control ??

and yes the proper paperwork in order is critical for a conviction..

Well, everyone involved will be doing paperwork....