Trudeau to exonerate Poundmaker

[normaM]

^^^yes
His trial was second only to Riel. His real name - Pitikwahanapiwiyin

[Ka-El]

… , can you explain the difference between the sanitariums that isolated sick indigenous peoples and those that isolated other people with highly contagious diseases?

Indian Hospitals and Sanatoria

Colonization created the circumstances for tuberculosis to become a major medical crisis within Indigenous communities. In the 1800s the loss of hunting-grounds, the bison slaughter, military invasions, and forced dislocations caused poverty, malnutrition and famine in Indigenous communities. As a result, tuberculosis rates soared. The Canadian government, who viewed Indigenous people as a “lost cause” and a “dying race destined to vanish", was reluctant to spend money on an “Indian problem” that most Canadian people cared little about.

From its inception, the Department of Indian Affairs (DIA) denied it had any legal obligation to provide healthcare. Rather than paying for the treatment of Indigenous people at hospitals serving White settler communities, the DIA preferred to subsidize substandard, segregated, and inexpensive Church-run medical facilities. The aim was to reduce costs and confine disease to Indian reservations and isolated areas.

Once it became clear that Indigenous people were not a “dying race,” government officials, doctors, and municipalities became concerned that tuberculosis would “spillover” into white communities. Fears regarding “Indian tuberculosis” reached almost hysterical proportions as medical experts claimed that infection rates were between ten and twenty times higher than infection rates in non-Indigenous settlers. Such exaggerated claims were underpinned by false notions that Indigenous people were especially susceptible to tuberculosis on account of their race.

While tuberculosis sanatoria had been established across Canada, Indigenous people were generally denied admittance. Indigenous people were subjected to coercive regulations and racist laws. The federal government passed legislation in the early 1950s that empowered police and medical authorities to apprehend, examine, and treat “Indians” who have communicable diseases. By refusing to submit to medical scrutiny and treatment, Indigenous people faced fines and imprisonment. Indian hospitals and sanatoria were not solely centres of medical treatment; they were part of the broader system of assimilation and colonization.

Much like residential schools, Indian hospitals and sanatoria undermined Indigenous worldviews and cultural practices. Indigenous people were generally denied contact with Elders and traditional healers, and received messages that their spiritual beliefs and ways of life were backwards and unhealthy. There is mounting evidence that Indian hospitals were rife with medical experimentation. New drugs, vaccinations, and surgeries were all tested on First Nations, Métis and Inuit without their knowledge or permission. Also disturbing is recent evidence that suggests an unknown number of Indigenous women were sterilized without their consent and against their wishes

More: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=74088&hilit=school+curriculum

[rustled]

I'm sorry, Ka-El, providing the curriculum is not at all the same as providing evidence. We've talked before about how incredibly biased the curriculum can be.

http://www.archives.gov.on.ca/en/explor ... etter.aspx

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... 7_1025.pdf

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/sites/ninettesanatorium.shtml

https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/speci ... 42637.html

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... -in-canada

There can be no genuine and meaningful reconciliation without the full truth. The truth is always nuanced. It was interesting to hear the professor on CBC this morning quote from a letter Begbie sent the governor about the decision to hang the six chiefs. Apparently it was not Begbie's decision.


Righting a wrong.

"The combat to racism is actually the truth," Blaine Favel said.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chief- ... -1.5126471

[Ka-El]

I'm sorry, Ka-El, providing the curriculum is not at all the same as providing evidence. We've talked before about how incredibly biased the curriculum can be.

I’m sorry rustled, but this curriculum was developed from evidence from research (sources provided in the link) – but of course, that is not to say it is immune from bias. Much the same as can be said about the rebuttals based on rationalizing and justifying these wrongdoings. One group simply wants these wrongs rightfully acknowledged so we can move forward as one nation, while the other group wants to pretend none of this ever happened (or at the least, try and suggest it is all “ancient history”). One way will possibly move us forward, while the other way keeps us stuck where we are.

[rustled]

I'm sorry, Ka-El, providing the curriculum is not at all the same as providing evidence. We've talked before about how incredibly biased the curriculum can be.

I’m sorry rustled, but this curriculum was developed from evidence from research (sources provided in the link) – but of course, that is not to say it is immune from bias. Much the same as can be said about the rebuttals based on rationalizing and justifying these wrongdoings. One group simply wants these wrongs rightfully acknowledged so we can move forward as one nation, while the other group wants to pretend none of this ever happened (or at the least, try and suggest it is all “ancient history”). One way will possibly move us forward, while the other way keeps us stuck where we are.

Indeed. If you look at the links I've provided along with the part of my post you did not quote, you'll not find denial or rationalizing or justification.

What you will find is a far broader perspective.

The bias in the curriculum you posted disturbs me, and it should disturb us all. Righting wrongs is a good thing. I firmly believe we can right the wrongs of the past without creating new wrongs. If we accept the genocide narrative implicit in Omnitheo's post, most particularly with his comparison to the holocaust, we are creating a new wrong. We are not "two groups". We should indeed move forward on this together, eyes wide open.

I agree with what Blaine Flavel said in the CBC interview. "The combat to racism is actually the truth."

Let's make sure we are considering the whole truth.

[Ka-El]

If we accept the genocide narrative implicit in Omnitheo's post, most particularly with his comparison to the holocaust, we are creating a new wrong. We are not "two groups". We should indeed move forward on this together, eyes wide open.

I’m sorry rustled, but after decades of learning and more than 15 years working directly with First Nations peoples and groups, I cannot agree with this at all. If we try to deny the genocide narrative implicit in Omnitheo's post we are perpetuating a wrong. The explicit goal at the time was to destroy the indigenous culture and assimilate whatever survivors there were into “white” culture; a goal that would never be accepted by most white people of the time. Denying the truth of our past propagates the division of our First Nations citizens. Despite the comments I read on these boards (and this will be my last post here on the matter), I am encouraged that the youth today are going to be able to benefit from this curriculum by being so much better informed. Indeed, there will be the chance we could truly move forward on this together, eyes wide open.

[rustled]

If we accept the genocide narrative implicit in Omnitheo's post, most particularly with his comparison to the holocaust, we are creating a new wrong. We are not "two groups". We should indeed move forward on this together, eyes wide open.

I’m sorry rustled, but after decades of learning and more than 15 years working directly with First Nations peoples and groups, I cannot agree with this at all. If we try to deny the genocide narrative implicit in Omnitheo's post we are perpetuating a wrong. The explicit goal at the time was to destroy the indigenous culture and assimilate whatever survivors there were into “white” culture; a goal that would never be accepted by most white people of the time. Denying the truth of our past propagates the division of our First Nations citizens. Despite the comments I read on these boards (and this will be my last post here on the matter), I am encouraged that the youth today are going to be able to benefit from this curriculum by being so much better informed. Indeed, there will be the chance we could truly move forward on this together, eyes wide open.

I see you have your reasons for feeling it's best to deny those parts of the truth that do not support the "explicit intent" part of the genocide narrative.

For me, there's no good reason to deny part of the truth about Pitikwahanapiwiyin, or Chanie Wenjack, or Macdonald or Begbie, or our any aspect of our history today, any more than there ever was. It concerns me that our youth are being taught with such bias today, when we have the ability and IMO the responsibility to do so much better.

I can see, though, why considering the broader perspective today does cause some folk a great deal of discomfort. Just as it has always done. It seems to me to be a vain hope that two wrongs based in bias will somehow make a right, but perhaps it will eventually prove to be the case here.

As we're seeing with Pitikwahanapiwiyin, truth will out.

[csm]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/stefanovich-chief-poundmaker-exoneration-date-1.5126471?cmp=rss

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau will exonerate Chief Poundmaker on May 23 during a visit to Poundmaker Cree Nation in Saskatchewan, according to a senior government source.

The exoneration comes 134 years after the Battle of Cut Knife, after which Poundmaker was convicted of treason.

Poundmaker stopped his warriors from chasing the retreating Canadian forces down, which prevented the deaths of hundreds of Canadian troops.

Instead of being celebrated as a hero, Poundmaker was accused of provoking the fight.

Poundmaker was jailed for six months. He died shortly after his release from a fatal respiratory disease.

Long overdue. Poundmaker should not be a footnote in Canadian history, and while it’s taken far too long to recognize him for the hero he was, i’m glad we finally have a leader that can admit the wrongdoings of the past in order for our country to move forward with a clean conscience.

Trudeau is a goof

[Ka-El]

I see you have your reasons for feeling it's best to deny those parts of the truth that do not support the "explicit intent" part of the genocide narrative.

huh? How explicit does the intent have to be to be recognized and acknowledged?

“Until There Is Not a Single Indian in Canada”

… While Scott did not think that education alone was sufficient for civilizing the Indigenous Peoples of Canada, he pushed heavily for it. When he mandated school attendance in 1920, he stated, “I want to get rid of the Indian problem. I do not think as a matter of fact, that the country ought to continuously protect a class of people who are able to stand alone. . . . Our objective is to continue until there is not a single Indian in Canada that has not been absorbed into the body politic and there is no Indian question, and no Indian Department, that is the whole object of this Bill.”

https://www.facinghistory.org/stolen-li ... ian-canada

Killing the Indian in the Child

By the second half of the nineteenth century, there were growing concerns among European settlers about the future of the integration and assimilation of the indigenous population of Canada.

1 Those concerns stemmed from the frustration of settlers with the persistence of what they called the Indian problem. The expectation that the indigenous groups would simply give up their ways of life and embrace European languages and culture had not materialized. Frustration grew in proportion to the desire to clear the way for new settlers, a goal that could only be achieved either by removing indigenous communities from their land or assimilating them and forcing them to give up their land rights as separate peoples.

https://www.facinghistory.org/stolen-li ... dian-child

[Treblehook]

Just another Trudeau "glossy". Canada's prolific apologist. After a bit, they roll off the tongue pretty easily. It is not what one says that matters, rather what one does.

[Salistala]

There can be no genuine and meaningful reconciliation without the full truth.

The mandatory attendance at residential school, the unethical nutrition experiments, the involuntary sterilizations, the involuntary abductions of children into a foster care system foreign culture, and the continued underfunding to social services to address the results of all these assimilationist policies weren't to First Nations benefit. And examining the few examples of First Nations success stories to the exclusion of the vast majority of stories of failure will not balance the conversation towards anything approaching equality.

In my opinion, knowing how to read, write and speak English (and how to mop, dig trenches, starch laundry, and shine shoes) doesn't make up for the vast majority of broken people that survived the "education" and returned to their homes unable to raise their children in a healthy way, or maintain a healthy relationship with their spouse, or understand and address their dysfunctional addictions.

In my opinion the schools did exactly what the architects envisioned they would do. And it wasn't for the empowerment of FNs.

[Salistala]

And Trudeau executing these symbolic gestures for First Nations, without actually doing anything concrete to address the gap between FNs and the rest of Canada is just salting the wound, and vulgarly pandering for FN votes. He did it before and he'll do it again.

[rustled]

There can be no genuine and meaningful reconciliation without the full truth.

The mandatory attendance at residential school, the unethical nutrition experiments, the involuntary sterilizations, the involuntary abductions of children into a foster care system foreign culture, and the continued underfunding to social services to address the results of all these assimilationist policies weren't to First Nations benefit. And examining the few examples of First Nations success stories to the exclusion of the vast majority of stories of failure will not balance the conversation towards anything approaching equality.

In my opinion, knowing how to read, write and speak English (and how to mop, dig trenches, starch laundry, and shine shoes) doesn't make up for the vast majority of broken people that survived the "education" and returned to their homes unable to raise their children in a healthy way, or maintain a healthy relationship with their spouse, or understand and address their dysfunctional addictions.

In my opinion the schools did exactly what the architects envisioned they would do. And it wasn't for the empowerment of FNs.

This requires looking at the issue from a victim-oppressor perspective. For a fuller version of the truth, go closer to the source. For example, Chief Dan George refused to accept the role of helpless victim, as do many First Nations today.

Then examine the transcripts from what actually happened to Chanie Wenjack, and you will see how the truth has been modified to suit the victim-oppressor narrative. It's extraordinary to me that in this day and age, people still get away with twisting the facts to this extent.

It was mandatory for non-First Nations children to attend residential schools when their homes were in areas where there was no school. The expectation was that the government would provide ALL Canadian children with an education, and excluding FN children would have been a reprehensible act of racism. To date, no one has been able to provide a sensible alternative for providing children in remote communities with an education that would equip them for the vastly changed world in which they now lived. Yes, the transition was too harsh and too hard. Yes, some of the people who worked at some of the schools behaved monstrously toward the children they cared for. But to suggest the government of the day was intent on genocide, or even that the intent of most of the adults who worked with those children, was actually to destroy those children is also monstrous.

Any narrative that focuses solely on harms done is incomplete. This is not the full truth.

The nutritional experimentation was cruel and is inexcusable. The narrative prefers to present it as pervasive.

Talk to the elders whose parents refused to allow them to be "abducted" during the 60s scoop, and ask yourself why the narrative does not share this part of the truth.

Look at who actually ordered the hangings of the Chilcotin chiefs, and look at Begbie's full history, and ask yourself why all we hear about Begbie's relationships with FN is the part of the truth that supports the victim-oppressor narrative.

It is interesting to me that while we are always expected to consider full historical context whenever a person of FN ancestry is charged with a crime (Gladue), we are expected to ignore full contemporary context when charging, decades and centuries later, those not of FN.

It is astonishing to me that people knowingly support teaching half-truths in our curriculum, and that people who have easy access to the full truth choose to accept the biased and prejudiced version presented by those who insist we see FN as victim and non-FN as oppressor, a falsified history that actually requires us to adopt a stance of racism and stereotyping, rather than recognizing the complexities of the relationships between communities and individuals through which this country has evolved.

As we're seeing with Pitikwahanapiwiyin, truth will out.

[rustled]

And Trudeau executing these symbolic gestures for First Nations, without actually doing anything concrete to address the gap between FNs and the rest of Canada is just salting the wound, and vulgarly pandering for FN votes. He did it before and he'll do it again.

That, and worse. The blueprint for moving forward was presented decades ago.

My culture is like a wounded deer that has crawled away into the forest to bleed and die alone.

The only thing that can truly help us is genuine love. You must truly love us, be patient with us and share with us. And we must love you -- with a genuine love that forgives and forgets... a love that forgives the terrible sufferings your culture brought ours when it swept over us like a wave crashing along a beach... with a love that forgets and lifts up its heads and sees in your eyes an answering love of trust and acceptance.

This is brotherhood... anything less is not worthy of the name.

Instead, we've allowed people with agendas to push us backward.

When the youth of today realize how they have been used and manipulated with half-truths and racist stereotyping, will they still be caught up in condemning and exonerating? One hopes not.