Meng and 'alleged' spying

[Mark1111]

China released our people the instant Meng was wheels up. There was not even the courtesy to try to pretend that this was anything but a hostage exchange. They disrespect Canadians that much that they couldn't be bothered. Everybody including Trudeau knew this for the last 3 years. China doesn’t care in the slightest how Canadians perceive them. We are insignificant pawns to be used. Do you imagine for one second that they would treat Russia this way? But they do care how the rest of the world (their consumers) sees them. Or they should.

China’s behavior will only change if North America and Europe take back their manufacturing, or look to other countries like Mexico, Africa and South Asia to ramp up their manufacturing and severely damage China’s bottom line. Ofcourse we have almost no democratic leader to take the initiative.

China will never care about human rights under their present government…and they aren’t going anywhere. But they would pay attention if their export market dries up. Only then.

[PoplarSoul]

It will be interesting to see which exchanged party requires immediate medical attention.

Chances these two men will have a serious case PTSD.
Being confined in a Chinese prison, not know what is going on, why they are there, poor food, limited physical activity, these guys could be in rough shape.

Let's hope that one day they will talk openly, tell us the truth as to how they were treated.

Let this be a warning to all foreigners, especially to Canadians, to never travel to that despicable country.

And we should never, ever forgive China for this crime that they committed.

Remember all this when you go shopping. Look for where a product is manufactured. If it's China, don't buy it.

Contact western countries that have manufacturing facilities in China. Pressure them to move elsewhere.

Agree except for their physical health i.e. poor food, limited physical activity, rough shape.
This is not North Korea.
PTSD for sure though. Not knowing their fate.
Will find out soon enough when they give interviews.
As for the shopping alas people like their cheap stuff. Companies like their profit.
Money talks.

[nucksRnum1]

I am glad that Trudeau won for the third time. This way he gets to keep the credit for all the hard work and diplomacy he has done to get the Michaels back. I am especially glad that the administration of Biden supported Trudeau - and did behind the scene diplomacy in order for the Michaels to be released. Today is a great day and a victory for Trudeau liberals.

Are you sure you were not at the KGH protests?? wow you have some seriously warped sense of reality!!

The hospital protests were a bunch of insane complainers. They are nothing.

[DarbyD]

I am glad that Trudeau won for the third time. This way he gets to keep the credit for all the hard work and diplomacy he has done to get the Michaels back. I am especially glad that the administration of Biden supported Trudeau - and did behind the scene diplomacy in order for the Michaels to be released. Today is a great day and a victory for Trudeau liberals.

Exactly Right.

[The Green Barbarian]

I find it interesting that people didn't think Trudeau made any effort to get the 2 Michaels back.

We know that Justin didn't put any effort in because he's too dim-witted and slow to have ever been a part of anything to do with the two Michaels. He's a paid actor, who mostly is paid to virtue-signal and show up for lame and stupid photo-ops, sometimes in grave yards holding teddy bears. So of course it was no surprise that Justin was at the airport to greet the two guys when they got to Calgary. Justin couldn't miss that photo-op either.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/j ... d=msedgntp

[LANDM]

I find it interesting that people didn't think Trudeau made any effort to get the 2 Michaels back.

We know that Justin didn't put any effort in because he's too dim-witted and slow to have ever been a part of anything to do with the two Michaels. He's a paid actor, who mostly is paid to virtue-signal and show up for lame and stupid photo-ops, sometimes in grave yards holding teddy bears. So of course it was no surprise that Justin was at the airport to greet the two guys when they got to Calgary. Justin couldn't miss that photo-op either.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/j ... d=msedgntp

Do you not believe that a conservative prime minister would have attended their arrival? I certainly do. And it would be entirely appropriate.

[DoubleB12]

Are you sure you were not at the KGH protests?? wow you have some seriously warped sense of reality!!

The hospital protests were a bunch of insane complainers. They are nothing.

I guess you felt you got your point across at the rally then hey??

[normaM]

I hope a takeaway is don't go to a Communist Country and then get surprised when their so called Rules and Laws aren't as you expected
Glad they out, we should have never gotten involved - no brainer that Meng would be released

[The Green Barbarian]

Sabrina Maddeaux: So China let the two Michaels go. This won't end here

There are plenty of celebratory headlines to go around about Friday’s release of Michael Kovrig and Michael Spavor from Chinese prisons, however it’d be a mistake to misconstrue the event as a win for Western democracies. This was not a happy ending, but rather an escalation of China’s unapologetic bully tactics on the international stage.

If there was ever any doubt about the nature of the two Michaels’ detention, there’s now none. China made that crystal clear when Kovrig and Spavor were released mere hours after a Vancouver court dropped the extradition case against Huawei executive Meng Wanzhou, who’d also reached a deferred prosecution deal with U.S. prosecutors that allowed her to avoid felony charges and walk free. It’s understood the U.S. agreement included a side deal to release the two Michaels.


This itself isn’t a surprise outcome. What is shocking, however, is that China didn’t so much as attempt to obscure the quid-pro-quo heart of the deal. Beijing always insisted there was no connection between Meng’s detention in December 2018 and the arrest of Kovrig and Spavor just 10 days later. Last month, China’s ambassador to Canada, Cong Peiwu, lectured that Ottawa’s accusations of hostage diplomacy were “irresponsible” and “gross interference” in the country’s judicial sovereignty. He insisted the two cases were “completely different.”

Now that China got what it wanted all along, it’s dropped any hint of pretense. One might’ve expected the country’s officials to wait a few weeks and perhaps release the Michaels before the holidays on some sort of humanitarian grounds or as a goodwill gesture. That they’d at least pretend to bow to international norms. Instead, the message was, “Oh yeah? What are you gonna do about it?”

When it comes to Canada, the answer is likely not much. Ottawa has so far failed to significantly shift from its long-held view that China can be a valuable business partner, and perhaps even friend. This is, of course, absurd to anyone paying even a modicum of attention to international or domestic affairs. There is ample evidence that China regularly engages in corporate espionage of Canadian companies including Nortel , intimidates and spies on Chinese immigrants in Canada, turns a blind eye to Chinese organized crime responsible for the growing opioid crisis and destabilizing our financial and real estate sectors, and now perhaps interferes in our democratic elections.

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/sa ... d=msedgntp

[Babba_not_Gump]

This way he gets to keep the credit for all the hard work and diplomacy he has done to get the Michaels back.

All the credit and diplomacy by Trudeau.

How about his refusal to do a prisoner exchange, despite pressure from several former Canadian diplomats and parliamentarians.
Isn't that what was eventually done?

[Babba_not_Gump]

And a little more on this female Huawei dog,

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/spavor ... -1.6189640
'Sorry for the inconvenience caused': Meng

Her speech on the tarmac in China was mind boggling. She "suffered horribly" throughout the ordeal (CTV Late News, Saturday)

Don't ever come back to North America, you can keep your Huawei electronics.

[foenix]

This way he gets to keep the credit for all the hard work and diplomacy he has done to get the Michaels back.

All the and diplomacy by Trudeau.

How about his refusal to do a prisoner exchange, despite pressure from several former Canadian diplomats and parliamentarians.
Isn't that what was eventually done?

JT had nothing to do with it. It was a request by the US to hold Meng as per our extradition agreement. Biden decided it was just a political ploy by Trump to hold Meng because of the Iran excuse so he did the right thing and released her. Canada and Meng was just pawns in Trump's disastrous foreign policy.

[hobbyguy]

This way he gets to keep the credit for all the hard work and diplomacy he has done to get the Michaels back.

All the credit and diplomacy by Trudeau.

How about his refusal to do a prisoner exchange, despite pressure from several former Canadian diplomats and parliamentarians.
Isn't that what was eventually done?

From the get go, Canada was caught in the middle of a power play between the USA and The Chinese Communist Party.

Canada was stuck between a rock and hard place in a very big way.

1. Do you break a treaty with an ally, the USA?
2. Do you knuckle under to the obvious thuggery of the CCP?
3. Do you abandon the rule of law to appease thugs like the CCP?
4. The CCP uses trade to punish its opponents. Do you throw Canadian farmers, forestry workers, miners et al "under the bus"?
5. The CCP was breaking the international agreements it has signed onto, and this situation was hardly unique. Do you reward that or stick to the system?
6. Was the US extradition claim valid? Or was it Trump using Canada as a pawn in the game? We would have known in about 4 weeks - the estimated wrap up for the tortuous extradition hearings. Now we will not know, or even have a decent set of clues, for at least two years as other legal actions spin out. Or perhaps those additional legal steps will slowly "go away" and we will never know.
7. It is possible that both the US and CCP positions were entirely manure. IF that is the case, it may be that the impending denouement of the Meng extradition case prompted both the US and the CCP to switch gears and simply want to "take the piece off the board". The US and the CCP "deal" has very "convenient" timing that raises many ? ? ? eyebrows.
8. The decisions regarding Huawei 5G equipment and the importance of Huawei's pretense at being independent from the CCP were playing out in the midst of all of this. That general pretense, that "private companies" in CCP China are "independent" from the CCP was important for the CCP and ALL so called "independent" companies in CCP China. In fact, after other countries, like Australia, said NO to Huawei 5G equipment - they were hit with economic blockades and as an example, two Australian citizens are still being held almost exactly under the same pretenses as the two Michaels as we chat.
9. A point of reference: the CCP does NOT want the Chinese people to know that the two Michaels have been released. They are scrubbing social media posts in China with any reference to that.
10. The CCP played up "Princess" Meng's return with red carpets, and wall to wall coverage portraying "China's strength" in getting her back - while censoring any references at all to the "deal".

I don't think that any of us "at our pay grade" will ever get the full understanding of the intricacies of the factors at play. Nor do I think that Canada had any viable options except to "play out the move" made by the US and the counter move made by the CCP. It was a power play on a three dimensional board where Canada is not a directing player, just an occasional pawn. It involves the geopolitical positions of two primary powers, the economic interest of the two top economies, and the complex internal politics of both of them. In a game of Chinese lions and dragons, US eagles and wolves, the Canadian beaver can only duck and hope not to be collateral damage.

[Jlabute]

^^^

pretty much. Canada could not have known the intricacies or details without a trial, and Meng received the best justice the world has to offer. Canada did the only right thing, Canada did not duck, and Canada successfully exposed Meng and how global financial institutions were misled using Skycom Tech, a subsidiary of Huawei. Good work Canada! During the trial a small liberal rift formed of those arguing for Meng’s release thru the back door. Justin rejected this. Surprise!

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/hu ... nstitution

Meng said when she was received in China

Without a strong motherland, I wouldn’t have the freedom I have today.

Which is a hugely ironic and incorrect statement. Goes to show how indoctrinated Meng is especially after thanking the justice system in Canada. No rich corporate figure in China ever has freedom as recent history shows.

Safe to say we will likely never see Meng again enjoying her (husband’s) vacation homes in Vancouver. The multimillion dollar homes are in her husbands name, a professor. I say, repossess the homes. They will be under utilized and unsafe to be left empty.

A police affidavit resulting in the arrest warrant for Meng said she had no ties to Canada, and her lawyers say this misled a judge by not mentioning her homes.

Auf Wiedersehen Meng - and don’t come back.

[Merry]

China has shown itself over and over again to be an unreliable, untrustworthy business partner. Yet we’re constantly being told we do too much business with China to stop doing so. So the takeaway from that seems to be that despite China’s bad behaviour, we make too much money trading with them to wean ourselves off.

Well, as I tend to believe the old saying that “ when you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas”, I think the opinions of those who profit the most from trade with China are very questionable.

Maybe we can’t cut off doing business with China “overnight”, but we can certainly begin pivoting away and finding new markets for our products. And, if our Government had any integrity at all, they’d be doing just that.