All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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The Green Barbarian
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by The Green Barbarian »

hobbyguy wrote: Nov 28th, 2021, 5:27 pm

I wonder if the Trudeau Liberals will follow suit. They were moving in that general direction....
I doubt it, then they would have to unmask all of their PMO-fed Liberal DI's that come out every election and lie about Conservative policies. They'd be cutting their own throats.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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rustled wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 7:14 am
hobbyguy wrote: Nov 28th, 2021, 5:27 pm"The new legislation will introduce a complaints mechanism, so that if somebody thinks they are being defamed, bullied or attacked on social media, they will be able to require the platform to take the material down."

I wonder if the Trudeau Liberals will follow suit. They were moving in that general direction....
They better not. Imagine if all I'd have to do is say "I think I'm being defamed, bullied or attacked" by your responses to my posts, and Castanet had to take the material down.

If Trudeau - or any other PM or politician or person accountable to the public - can't handle having ordinary Canadians attack their policies and can use this to complain they are being attacked, there's no point bothering to pretend we live in a democracy.
There are in fact some key questions to be addressed in what Australia is proposing.

1. Bots. Bots do not represent democratic expression in my opinion. Identifying and removing bots would be a benefit to all. In order to identify bots, social media platforms must be more transparent.
2. The anonymity factor.
IF malicious posting were traceable back to a person, it is highly likely that malicious postings would decline. It is also likely that the overall "temperature" of postings would go down, reflecting a more "social" setting. Would there be as many defamatory posts if in fact the anonymity factor were reduced and defamation lawsuits could follow for obviously defamatory? Methinks not. Remember that one can defame a person, but it is much more difficult to prove defamation of a internet handle. I could defame, say "Ryan Reynolds" - but ho do you prove defamation if "Ryan Reynolds" posts on a site as say "blue swimmer"? The same is true of things like racist hate attacks, one could prove that a racist attack was directed at say "Annamie Paul", but if "Annamie Paul" was posting anonymously as "orphan annie" - hard to prove a racist attack occurred. So that would actually only apply to persons posting under their own legal name.
Plus the tracing back to legal person behind a social media handle would only occur if an offense had a reasonable likelihood of being proven. If I write a malicious letter to the editor under my legal name (and the newspaper won't publish them without it) and defame a person, then indeed I ought to be subject to a defamation suit. Why should said reality not apply to electronic media (which is fast replacing print media)?
3. The damage to society factor. Society functions because we set limits on interactions of all sorts. Without a functioning society, none of us has a reasonable life. While lessened, manners and civility do matter in in enhancing the functioning of society and the well being of the citizenry writ large. Newspapers, TV stations, radio stations - they all function under evolving codes of conduct. Why not social media outlets - who are simply electronic media publishers?
4. Defamation is an entirely different thing from the to and *bleep* of differing political views. It is ok for you or I to express that we don't like the political view of a politician on an issue. It is ok for a person to express that they would not choose to wear the same socks as a politician. It is not ok to claim that said politician bribed a police officer when they did not. The latter case is defamation, the former two are not.

So there are some very real questions to be addressed as we go forward. My guess is that if a poll were done, a large majority of Canadians would agree that the "wild west" of social media, with Russian bots etc., algorithms that knowingly harm folks, scammers, the selling of YOUR data and the like could use some smartening up. I applaud the Australian government for at least having a go.

The measure that Guilbeault put forward in the last session was timid and only aimed at a tiny portion of the issues involved. That Guilbeault proposed anything is an indication that Trudeau wants "something done". That "what" is unclear, and perhaps an example from Australia can clarify what can, should and is feasible to do.
The middle path - everything in moderation, and everything in its time and order.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by Thinktank »

QUESTION FOR TRUDEAU:

If you and Omar Alghabra will not allow someone who hasn't been sick for thirty one years and does not have Covid to fly on planes,
but you do allow the entire fully - 100% VAXXED - Ottawa Senators hockey team to travel
on planes and trains in Canada and everywhere else spreading the disease

here is my question,

Would you allow me a one way ticket, on a plane to get out of Canada for good?


Image

look at them smile - they gave themselves the right to fly anywhere they want.
If you have to be persuaded reminded bullied pressured bribed incentivized, lied to, guilt tripped, coerced, socially shamed, censored, threatened, paid, punished and criminalized, to gain your compliance- the thing is no good
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by nucksRnum1 »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 11:00 amI doubt it, then they would have to unmask all of their PMO-fed Liberal DI's that come out every election and lie about Conservative policies. They'd be cutting their own throats.
What do you mean by lying about Conservative policy? The policies are there for all Canadians to see. Like Alberta, Saskatchewan and Ontario. 2 of those provinces are covid basket cases - and the other attacked teachers and severely underfunded care homes. Those things are evident and are not fake news. Conservatives have cut their own throats over and over and lost 3 elections.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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Thinktank wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 11:49 am
Would you allow me a one way ticket, on a plane to get out of Canada for good?[/color][/b]
TT - take Justin with you, please.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:07 pm

What do you mean by lying about Conservative policy? .
I mean exactly that. We see the same fear-mongering and lies every election from the same gang of paid idiot Liberal DI's, who lie their fat butts off, in the name of a pay cheque. They are fed directly from the PMO. Why would the PMO want to kill one of their main campaign strategies and ham-string these paid liars?
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by nucksRnum1 »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:08 pm
nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:07 pm

What do you mean by lying about Conservative policy? .
I mean exactly that. We see the same fear-mongering and lies every election from the same gang of paid idiot Liberal DI's, who lie their fat butts off, in the name of a pay cheque. They are fed directly from the PMO. Why would the PMO want to kill one of their main campaign strategies and ham-string these paid liars?
This upside-down or rubber and glue schtick must be exhausting. How do conservative DI's keep track of all the lies and allegations? Using fear-mongering to stir up their base telling them the sky is falling because of Trudeau Liberals.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by The Green Barbarian »

nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:26 pm

This upside-down or rubber and glue schtick must be exhausting.
For you anyway.

Justin's team at the PMO really don't want to cut off one of their main campaign features - disinformation. That's why they can't afford to have their paid liars disciplined by online social media police. How else could these horrible liars fear monger about gay marriage, abortion and the man-made climate change myth? It's a tried and true model, that only the pure slime at the Liberal PMO love to utilize.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:29 pm How else could these horrible liars fear monger about gay marriage, abortion and the man-made climate change myth?
Right wing fear mongers certainly are effective at scaring their base with lies about Trudeau's policies on gay marriage, abortion and climate change. But thankfully most Canadians are smart enough to not be fooled by such right wing nonsense, which is likely why Trudeau has won 3 elections in a row against the fear mongering conservatives.
The best part about the 'twitter files' is where Tucker Carlson asks Hunter Biden to help his kid get into college.

Some right wingers definitely have a secret folder full of naked Hunter Biden photos.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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:-X :topic:
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by Catri »

Thinktank wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 11:49 am QUESTION FOR TRUDEAU:

If you and Omar Alghabra will not allow someone who hasn't been sick for thirty one years and does not have Covid to fly on planes,
but you do allow the entire fully - 100% VAXXED - Ottawa Senators hockey team to travel
on planes and trains in Canada and everywhere else spreading the disease

here is my question,

Would you allow me a one way ticket, on a plane to get out of Canada for good?


Image

look at them smile - they gave themselves the right to fly anywhere they want.
I'm sure you could find a way out if you really wanted to, but where would you go?
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by Thinktank »

Catri wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 2:29 pm I'm sure you could find a way out if you really wanted to, but where would you go?
Just today, someone on another forum gave me this link. It has exemptions. All this time no one castanet
told me about those exemptions. One exemption is "sincere religious belief" - and that might be my ticket out of here.
But I would still stay in Canada - just need a vacation before I go crazy.


https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/trave ... exceptions
If you have to be persuaded reminded bullied pressured bribed incentivized, lied to, guilt tripped, coerced, socially shamed, censored, threatened, paid, punished and criminalized, to gain your compliance- the thing is no good
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

Post by nucksRnum1 »

The Green Barbarian wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:29 pm
nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 12:26 pm

This upside-down or rubber and glue schtick must be exhausting.
For you anyway.

Justin's team at the PMO really don't want to cut off one of their main campaign features - disinformation. That's why they can't afford to have their paid liars disciplined by online social media police. How else could these horrible liars fear monger about gay marriage, abortion and the man-made climate change myth? It's a tried and true model, that only the pure slime at the Liberal PMO love to utilize.
Where is your proof of paid actors? Where is the empirical truth that what you don't agree with is disinformation? The mongering as you call it was based on fact. The conservative base in the west would be no different than what happened in the US if in Ottawa. Utilizing truth as a narrative is not slimy. Robocalls and convicted election fraud were.
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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https://torontosun.com/opinion/columnis ... or-seniors

“ All last week when the Conservatives were asking about inflation, the Liberals turned to child care as the answer. On Wednesday, when Trudeau himself was answering every question, he responded with child care even when asked about the price of food going up.

Lowering child care costs is incredibly important for families with children in need of care but let’s face some facts: That is a small percentage of the population. The Liberal program, which will take five years to lower fees to $10 per day, won’t help people who have no children or older children.
When seniors on a fixed income see food prices go up 14% on average for beef or nearly 9% for chicken, a $10-a-day child care program that comes into full effect five years from now will not help pay the grocery bill. As temperatures drop in our Canadian winter, a child care plan won’t help people looking at their natural gas bill being up 18% while their paycheque has remained flat”

<SNIP>

“ A growing chorus of economists are warning the government that their own out-of-control spending is helping contribute to this inflation crisis and they should take their foot off the accelerator. Trudeau’s response is to answer with more government spending, which will only exacerbate the problem further.

Trudeau could easily sound empathetic to Canadians worried about this issue – and there are a lot of them – but he comes across as cold, aloof and out of touch. That’s dangerous for him politically. Even his most strident supporters know that Trudeau is a trust-fund baby who has never had to worry about money in his life — his inability to understand that others do have that worry could erode fragile support.”
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Re: All Things Trudeau, Chapter 2

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nucksRnum1 wrote: Nov 29th, 2021, 7:04 pm The mongering as you call it was based on fact.
Of course it wasn't. Those paid PMO liars don't want to be exposed. The PMO can't have that happen. They pay people to lie about the Conservatives, and lie they do. Oh boy do they ever.
Justin Trudeau summed up by Stephen LeDrew:

Cockwomble: a person prone to making outrageously stupid statements and/or inappropriate behaviour while generally having a very high opinion of his own wisdom and importance.

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