Gun Control

foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:51 am
foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:18 am

That's not what I wrote and have been writing.....here it is again for people with reading comprehension. I wrote,.......see the difference.......and thanks for the pointless and off topic post after the reading problem.
Total firearm suicide rates per 100,000 population vary considerably from one country to another. Canada’s total suicide rate of 12.9 is similar to Australia (12.7), Norway (12.3), and the United States (11.5). Estonia (40) and Japan (17.9) are among the countries that have higher rates than Canada, while several other countries have rates below one per 100,000 population (United Nations, 1998: 112-113).

So we have a higher rate of suicide using firearms than the USA, but lower than Japan and similar rates to Australia and Norway.

But those two countries (Aus and Norway) have much stricter gun control laws than Canada so that doesnt make sense to your argument about more gun control.

If they are going to commit suicide they are going to commit it using whatever means they have. Just so happens that Shooting oneself is rather quick and painless compared to hanging or poisoning.

This is proven by the suicide rate in Australia before and after the weapons ban. The Suicide rate didn't go down it just switched from using guns to using a different method.
It accounts for.......
In Canada, about 80 percent of firearm-related deaths are suicides
and in 2019, it's slightly down......
One might be surprised to learn that 75 per cent of Canadian gun deaths are suicides.
https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/colum ... r-controls

Yes it's true about someone committing to kill themselves but it's also true that most of them try multiple times to kill themselves. If they use other methods other than guns, the chance are good that somewhere down the line they might be save or talked out of it........not so if one use a gun to blow their brains out......that's basically a one time decision.
mikest2
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3030
Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:18 am
Nedroj wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:00 am

You tried to make the point that Suicide by firearms is a major contributor to the suicide rate in CANADA and that's why we need better gun control. I showed proof that Hanging and Poisoning are the majority method of suicide, not firearms in Canada.
That's not what I wrote and have been writing.....here it is again for people with reading comprehension. I wrote,
majority of gun violence in Canada is suicide by guns
.......see the difference.......and thanks for the pointless and off topic post after the reading problem.
Suicide is not violence, hence firearm suicides are not violence, ergo not gun violence. Otherwise I am sure you would be quite concerned about poisoning violence, hanging violence, and drug overdose violence as well
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

mikest2 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 10:34 am
foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 8:18 am

That's not what I wrote and have been writing.....here it is again for people with reading comprehension. I wrote,.......see the difference.......and thanks for the pointless and off topic post after the reading problem.
Suicide is not violence, hence firearm suicides are not violence, ergo not gun violence. Otherwise I am sure you would be quite concerned about poisoning violence, hanging violence, and drug overdose violence as well
Many many peeps would disagree with you on that.......but nice try with the deflection.
When it comes to the data, public health officials and academics are pretty specific in the way they describe shootings. The CDC defines “firearm violence” as shootings that are self-inflicted; unintentional; the result of interpersonal violence; and officer-involved. WISQARS, the CDC’s fatal injury database, allows people to filter cause-of-death data by “cause or mechanism of the injury” and includes “firearms” as an option. The resulting report is headlined simply “Firearm Deaths and Rates.”..........

Canada, for example, considers suicide by firearm to be gun violence and includes gun suicides in its firearm injury statistics, said a spokesperson for the country’s public safety agency.

“Certainly, firearm suicide is generally considered to be a ‘gun violence’ issue in Australia, the U.K., Canada, New Zealand, and in most European nations,” said Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney in Australia and director of GunPolicy.Org, a website that’s tracked global civilian gun ownership and deaths for nearly two decades.

Alpers and his fellow academics in Australia refer to gun suicides as gun violence and also “firearm-related violence.”
https://www.thetrace.org/2021/12/gun-vi ... ng-deaths/

Canada’s gun-violence epidemic doesn’t look like what you might think

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ght-think/
mikest2
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3030
Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 11:55 am
mikest2 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 10:34 am

Suicide is not violence, hence firearm suicides are not violence, ergo not gun violence. Otherwise I am sure you would be quite concerned about poisoning violence, hanging violence, and drug overdose violence as well
Many many peeps would disagree with you on that.......but nice try with the deflection.
When it comes to the data, public health officials and academics are pretty specific in the way they describe shootings. The CDC defines “firearm violence” as shootings that are self-inflicted; unintentional; the result of interpersonal violence; and officer-involved. WISQARS, the CDC’s fatal injury database, allows people to filter cause-of-death data by “cause or mechanism of the injury” and includes “firearms” as an option. The resulting report is headlined simply “Firearm Deaths and Rates.”..........

Canada, for example, considers suicide by firearm to be gun violence and includes gun suicides in its firearm injury statistics, said a spokesperson for the country’s public safety agency.

“Certainly, firearm suicide is generally considered to be a ‘gun violence’ issue in Australia, the U.K., Canada, New Zealand, and in most European nations,” said Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney in Australia and director of GunPolicy.Org, a website that’s tracked global civilian gun ownership and deaths for nearly two decades.

Alpers and his fellow academics in Australia refer to gun suicides as gun violence and also “firearm-related violence.”
https://www.thetrace.org/2021/12/gun-vi ... ng-deaths/

Canada’s gun-violence epidemic doesn’t look like what you might think

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... ght-think/
Meh, still a lame argument.
Canada's gun violence problem is criminals illegally obtaining, possessing and using firearms. The Liberals continue to double down on more restrictions for licenced, law abiding firearms owners while at the same time lowering minimum mandatory sentencing for crimes involving firearms. Then our courts throw the criminals right back onto the street.

The 42-year-old woman driver and a 41-year-old man who was the passenger in the vehicle were arrested. The woman was released without charges, while the man is facing possible charges of possession for the purpose of trafficking and was released to appear in court at a later date.

https://www.castanet.net/news/Kelowna/3 ... affic-stop

If you gave the Liberals a map they couldn't find the "you are here" marker
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Meh, even a lamer e̶x̶c̶u̶s̶e̶ argument......criminials illegally obtaining, possessing and using gun for violence is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the gun violence problem in Canada......and the right winger keep continuously pushing this false narrative.
User avatar
Gone_Fishin
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 13300
Joined: Sep 6th, 2006, 7:43 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Gone_Fishin »

Don't trust Justin Trudeau.
“They’re being smuggled in because people that want to possess them do not register firearms. They are criminal, the criminal entity of the city, mainly gangs, but there are illegal firearms that are much easier to acquire from the United States,” explains Insp. Joe Matthews, who heads up Toronto police’s guns and gangs unit.

In 2020, approximately 85 per cent of all handguns seized by Toronto police were traced back to the U.S.

https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/04/23/ ... r-toronto/
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

A smaller government makes room for bigger citizens.

"We know that Russia must win this war." ~ Justin Trudeau, Feb 26, 2024.
Sparki55
Guru
Posts: 5434
Joined: Feb 24th, 2013, 1:38 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by Sparki55 »

foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:24 pm Meh, even a lamer e̶x̶c̶u̶s̶e̶ argument......criminials illegally obtaining, possessing and using gun for violence is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the gun violence problem in Canada......and the right winger keep continuously pushing this false narrative.
What?! Do you think legal firearm owners are accounting for all of the gun violence in Canada? Where do you get this info from?

Also, suicide my gun is not gun violence. I don't care if that is the official definition. If it is the official definition, it was changed to serve a purpose. As pointed out by others, we don't worry about bridge violence or rope violence.
foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Sparki55 wrote: May 18th, 2022, 1:55 pm
foenix wrote: May 18th, 2022, 12:24 pm Meh, even a lamer e̶x̶c̶u̶s̶e̶ argument......criminials illegally obtaining, possessing and using gun for violence is a tiny tiny tiny fraction of the gun violence problem in Canada......and the right winger keep continuously pushing this false narrative.
What?! Do you think legal firearm owners are accounting for all of the gun violence in Canada? Where do you get this info from?

Also, suicide my gun is not gun violence. I don't care if that is the official definition. If it is the official definition, it was changed to serve a purpose. As pointed out by others, we don't worry about bridge violence or rope violence.
No one really cares what we think, that's the official definition, get over it. Try reading the post again and try and figure out what it actually says instead of projecting and assuming.
User avatar
GordonH
Сварливий старий мерзотник
Posts: 39336
Joined: Oct 4th, 2008, 7:21 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by GordonH »

Black market on guns is doing very well in Canada, the source isn’t at all surprising.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8845131/onta ... ce-states/
I don't give a damn whether people/posters like me or dislike me, I'm not on earth to win any popularity contests.
seewood
Guru
Posts: 6634
Joined: May 29th, 2013, 2:08 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by seewood »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 6:36 am Black market on guns is doing very well in Canada, the source isn’t at all surprising.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8845131/onta ... ce-states/
You know that, I know that, but apparently Truedum refuses to know that.
I am not wealthy but I am rich
foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 6:36 am Black market on guns is doing very well in Canada, the source isn’t at all surprising.
https://globalnews.ca/news/8845131/onta ... ce-states/
Firearm-related violent crimes is a small proportion of all violent crime in Canada – 3% in 2017.......

GUN CRIME IS LESS THAN ONE HALF OF ONE PERCENT OF
OVERALL POLICE-REPORTED CRIME IN CANADA

FIREARM RELATED CRIME IS A REGIONAL STORY

THERE WERE 3,603 INCIDENTS WHERE AT LEAST ONE FIREARM WAS
REPORTED AS STOLEN PROPERTY IN 2017
https://sencanada.ca/content/sen/commit ... _ppt_e.pdf
User avatar
Gone_Fishin
Walks on Forum Water
Posts: 13300
Joined: Sep 6th, 2006, 7:43 am

Re: Gun Control

Post by Gone_Fishin »

Let's see here - Libranos' own propaganda says that firearms crime is less than 3%.

85% of crime guns come from the US illegally.

So Justin Trudeau goes after (3%x(1-.85)) = 0.45% of crime by targeting the over 2 million lawful, law-abiding firearms owners in Canada.

Justin Trudeau is an idiot. So is anyone who supports him.
ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

A smaller government makes room for bigger citizens.

"We know that Russia must win this war." ~ Justin Trudeau, Feb 26, 2024.
foenix
Guru
Posts: 7667
Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Let's do this again, shall we......
Over a 15 year period, more than two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in Ontario were suicides that impacted mostly older men living in rural areas, according to a new study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal on Monday.

Doctors from the Unity Health Toronto network of hospitals examined health administrative data held at the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences on firearm-related deaths and injuries in Ontario from 2002 to 2016.

They found that 67.6 per cent of deaths linked to guns in the province — a total of 1,842 — during that period were suicides, and mostly impacted older men living in rural areas.

The researchers also discovered that the majority of gun-related injuries in Ontario are due to self-harm, making up 68 per cent of those injuries and again impacting mostly men over 45, living in rural communities.

In contrast, the study also found that 25 per cent of firearm-related deaths represent young men in urban centres, and 40 per cent of injuries were assaults affecting those same demographics.

The findings show that targeted interventions need to be tailored to these two contrasting patterns, in order to reduce the impact of guns on rural and urban communities, researchers said in a media release.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Nedroj
Übergod
Posts: 1917
Joined: Apr 10th, 2014, 2:36 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:57 am Let's do this again, shall we......
Over a 15 year period, more than two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in Ontario were suicides that impacted mostly older men living in rural areas, according to a new study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal on Monday.

Doctors from the Unity Health Toronto network of hospitals examined health administrative data held at the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences on firearm-related deaths and injuries in Ontario from 2002 to 2016.

They found that 67.6 per cent of deaths linked to guns in the province — a total of 1,842 — during that period were suicides, and mostly impacted older men living in rural areas.

The researchers also discovered that the majority of gun-related injuries in Ontario are due to self-harm, making up 68 per cent of those injuries and again impacting mostly men over 45, living in rural communities.

In contrast, the study also found that 25 per cent of firearm-related deaths represent young men in urban centres, and 40 per cent of injuries were assaults affecting those same demographics.

The findings show that targeted interventions need to be tailored to these two contrasting patterns, in order to reduce the impact of guns on rural and urban communities, researchers said in a media release.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
mikest2
Lord of the Board
Posts: 3030
Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 8:44 am
foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:57 am Let's do this again, shall we......



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
There it is, plain and simple. The problem is that the Liberals are driven by poorly conceived ideas. To most rational people the idea of lowering crime rates by going after criminals is a no brainer. To the Liberals one must go after law abiding citizens and soften up on criminals. Logic and mathematics are not a Liberal strongpoint.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...

Return to “Canada”