Gun Control

foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Let's do this again, shall we......
Over a 15 year period, more than two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in Ontario were suicides that impacted mostly older men living in rural areas, according to a new study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal on Monday.

Doctors from the Unity Health Toronto network of hospitals examined health administrative data held at the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences on firearm-related deaths and injuries in Ontario from 2002 to 2016.

They found that 67.6 per cent of deaths linked to guns in the province — a total of 1,842 — during that period were suicides, and mostly impacted older men living in rural areas.

The researchers also discovered that the majority of gun-related injuries in Ontario are due to self-harm, making up 68 per cent of those injuries and again impacting mostly men over 45, living in rural communities.

In contrast, the study also found that 25 per cent of firearm-related deaths represent young men in urban centres, and 40 per cent of injuries were assaults affecting those same demographics.

The findings show that targeted interventions need to be tailored to these two contrasting patterns, in order to reduce the impact of guns on rural and urban communities, researchers said in a media release.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:57 am Let's do this again, shall we......
Over a 15 year period, more than two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in Ontario were suicides that impacted mostly older men living in rural areas, according to a new study published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal on Monday.

Doctors from the Unity Health Toronto network of hospitals examined health administrative data held at the Institute for Clinical Evaluative Sciences on firearm-related deaths and injuries in Ontario from 2002 to 2016.

They found that 67.6 per cent of deaths linked to guns in the province — a total of 1,842 — during that period were suicides, and mostly impacted older men living in rural areas.

The researchers also discovered that the majority of gun-related injuries in Ontario are due to self-harm, making up 68 per cent of those injuries and again impacting mostly men over 45, living in rural communities.

In contrast, the study also found that 25 per cent of firearm-related deaths represent young men in urban centres, and 40 per cent of injuries were assaults affecting those same demographics.

The findings show that targeted interventions need to be tailored to these two contrasting patterns, in order to reduce the impact of guns on rural and urban communities, researchers said in a media release.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
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mikest2
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 8:44 am
foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 7:57 am Let's do this again, shall we......



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ ... -1.5767409
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
There it is, plain and simple. The problem is that the Liberals are driven by poorly conceived ideas. To most rational people the idea of lowering crime rates by going after criminals is a no brainer. To the Liberals one must go after law abiding citizens and soften up on criminals. Logic and mathematics are not a Liberal strongpoint.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 8:44 am
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
the conclusion wasn't definitive......
Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.......A study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides............“Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.”.....While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation.
It just means in this particular study, they couldn't find a causal relationship to the suicide reduction and the ban......which doesn't mean there wasn't as noted in the decrease death statistic for suicide and firearm deaths. They just didn't find it in this particular study (just for suicides)......but certainly in other studies....

Less guns = Less deaths For example....

Tougher Gun Laws, Fewer Gun Deaths
The more gun laws a state has, the lower its suicide and murder rates, a new U.S. study finds.

Gun violence in the United States is a public health crisis. In 2017, nearly 67,000 Americans died by suicide and homicide. And guns were involved in about half of the suicides and 74% of the murders, the researchers reported.

But in recent decades, "as states' strictness [on gun ownership] increased, their suicide and homicide rates decreased," lead author John Gunn said in a Rutgers University news release. He's a postdoctoral researcher at the Rutgers School of Public Health and New Jersey Gun Violence Research Center.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/new ... gun-deaths

America's gun culture - in seven charts

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

Fewer Guns Mean Fewer Gun Homicides

https://www.nber.org/digest/feb01/fewer ... -homicides
mikest2
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 9:11 am
Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 8:44 am
Please allow me to Destroy your pathetic argument with one single image.

Australia enacted the 1996 National Firearms Ban.

They still had over 2,200 suicides that year and the suicide rates have climbed to be roughly the same amount of Suicides Canada has each year at around 3,800 to 4,500. Canada without the same gun control laws.

The other thing you failed to mention is the majority of Suicide cases are from victims with Terminal Illnesses.
Banning Firearms will do nothing to stop the suicide rate as we've seen in Australia.
the conclusion wasn't definitive......
Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.......A study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides............“Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.”.....While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation.

This is Canada though. Does Australia border the US ?
It just means in this particular study, they couldn't find a causal relationship to the suicide reduction and the ban......which doesn't mean there wasn't as noted in the decrease death statistic for suicide and firearm deaths. They just didn't find it in this particular study (just for suicides)......but certainly in other studies....

Less guns = Less deaths For example....

Tougher Gun Laws, Fewer Gun Deaths
The more gun laws a state has, the lower its suicide and murder rates, a new U.S. study finds.

Gun violence in the United States is a public health crisis. In 2017, nearly 67,000 Americans died by suicide and homicide. And guns were involved in about half of the suicides and 74% of the murders, the researchers reported.

But in recent decades, "as states' strictness [on gun ownership] increased, their suicide and homicide rates decreased," lead author John Gunn said in a Rutgers University news release. He's a postdoctoral researcher at the Rutgers School of Public Health and New Jersey Gun Violence Research Center.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/new ... gun-deaths

America's gun culture - in seven charts

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41488081

Fewer Guns Mean Fewer Gun Homicides

https://www.nber.org/digest/feb01/fewer ... -homicides
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

You'll have to ask Nedroj....he's the one that brought up Australia.
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 9:38 am You'll have to ask Nedroj....he's the one that brought up Australia.
I brought up Australia because all you gun control nut cases always site their "Assault Weapons Ban" in 1996 showing that gun control works to reduce death.

You particularly brought up the Suicide rates using Firearms in Canada saying that if we had better gun control laws the suicide rates would also come down and I'm saying (and proving) that is false. While it might deter someone from ending their life by not having a firearm readily available, they will and do eventually commit suicide using some other means.

Suicide by Firearm is the best way to end your life when you are that determined.

But in Canada, again, the choice method for Suicide is Hanging for Men and Poisoning for women, not firearms.

So your argument that Gun Control will lower Canada's Suicide rate is false.
Just like your argument that Gun Control will lower Canada's homicide rate is also false.

Look at this graph.

In 2020 there were 743 Homicides total in the entire country.
Of those 743 homicides,
277 (37%) were committed using a firearm
234 (31%) were committed using stabbing ie. knife, sharp objects
129 (17%) were committed using beating ie hands, fists, blunt objects
Since 2013, gang-related homicides in Canada’s largest cities have almost doubled. Of the 743 homicides in 2020, 20% of homicides (134) were linked to organized crime or street gangs. With the vast majority of them using Handguns as their choice of weapon.
Do you think Gang violence (using handguns primarily) is going to suddenly drop when legal, law-abiding firearm owners are being forced to give up their hunting/sport shooting rifles?
Theft of personal property was the crime most frequently reported (34%), followed by physical assault (22%), theft of household property (12%), sexual assault (10%), vandalism (9%), break and enter (7%), theft of motor vehicle or parts (4%), and robbery (3%). Representing less than 0.2% of all violent crimes in Canada in 2018, homicides account for a fraction of all police-reported violent Criminal Code offenses (Moreau 2019).
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cntr ... ex-en.aspx

https://cubetoronto.com/canada/what-is- ... in-canada/
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foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 10:24 am
foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 9:38 am You'll have to ask Nedroj....he's the one that brought up Australia.
I brought up Australia because all you gun control nut cases always site their "Assault Weapons Ban" in 1996 showing that gun control works to reduce death.

It did....
Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.......A study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides............“Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.”.
The study only mentioned it didn't find a causal between Howard's ban and the reduced deaths....but certainly the statistic supports the fact.....

Less guns = Less guns......that is not in dispute as many many studies support that.
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

First, let's look at the relationship between gun laws and violence in general. It is possible to have a violent society without guns. Prime evidence of that is the former Soviet Union and its successor states such as Russia, which despite stringent gun control laws, posted murder rates from 1965-1999 that far outstripped the rest of the developed world [sources: Kates and Mauser; Kessler; Pridemore]. The killers in question did not obtain illegal firearms -- they simply employed other weapons [source: Kleck].

On the other hand, Norway, Finland, Germany, France and Denmark, all countries with heavy gun ownership, have a history of low murder rates. According to a 2014 United Nations report, Germany's murder rate of 0.8 killings per 100,000 inhabitants was identical to Luxembourg, where the law prohibits civilian ownership of handguns and gun ownership is rare [source: UNODOC, Kates and Mauser].
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 10:30 am

Less guns = Less guns......that is not in dispute as many many studies support that.
I agree less guns means fewer guns........But that's not what we are discussing here.

I stated, Less guns doesn't equal less death.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 10:35 am
I stated, Less guns doesn't equal less death.
That's exactly what it means.....Less guns = less deaths by guns

....and many many studies support that statement. I've posted those studies in this thread, feel free to browse through them.
GordonH
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Re: Gun Control

Post by GordonH »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 10:40 am
Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 10:35 am
I stated, Less guns doesn't equal less death.
That's exactly what it means.....Less guns = less deaths by guns

....and many many studies support that statement. I've posted those studies in this thread, feel free to browse through them.
As long as there continues to be holes in our border with the US, guns will continue to be available to anyone.
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foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

:biggrin: ....that is a small small fraction of the gun death problem in Canada.
featfan
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Re: Gun Control

Post by featfan »

I don’t care if you only have a Hi-Point. Just make sure you at least have a gun.
GordonH
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Re: Gun Control

Post by GordonH »

foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 12:27 pm :biggrin: ....that is a small small fraction of the gun death problem in Canada.
Again believing BS trudeau trying to sell, btw I am aware you have bought in hook... line and sinker. Simply because he’s scared :swear: less of someone wanting to shoot him.
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