Gun Control

foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 12:31 pm
foenix wrote: May 20th, 2022, 12:27 pm :biggrin: ....that is a small small fraction of the gun death problem in Canada.
Again believing BS trudeau trying to sell, btw I am aware you have bought in hook... line and sinker. Simply because he’s scared :swear: less of someone wanting to shoot him.
Jut basing things on stats and common sense and btw......not even close, JT and the Libs at the moment are the lesser of the evils.
GordonH
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Re: Gun Control

Post by GordonH »

Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 1:00 pm Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
Trying to sell logic to someone who thinks birds rises from their own ashes ?
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 1:00 pm Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
We also need to ban fast food, pop and bacon.

Heart Disease:
It is the 2nd leading cause of death in Canada.

Also known as ischemic heart disease or coronary heart disease, heart disease refers to the buildup of plaque in the heart's arteries that could lead to a heart attack, heart failure, or death.

2012/13 data from the Public Health Agency of Canada's Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance System (CCDSS) indicate that:

About 1 in 12 (or 2.4 million) Canadian adults age 20 and over live with diagnosed heart disease;
Every hour, about 12 Canadian adults aged 20 and over with diagnosed heart disease die.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... anada.html
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django
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Re: Gun Control

Post by django »

Interesting series this week on global national tracing crime guns, be nice if they confronted the government with this stuff. I’m surprised global even reported on this side of the story.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8847965/cana ... s-tracing/

“Toronto police have said around 85 per cent of its crime guns are sourced from the U.S., but Canada still has no national data that tracks the sources of its illegal guns.“
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Re: Gun Control

Post by erinmore3775 »

^^ The most important statements from the Global article are as follows: B.C., Alberta, Quebec and Ontario account for the vast majority of Canada’s crime guns, according to Taylor. In all four provinces, it is not mandatory under the provincial police act to trace a gun used in a crime.

Gun violence is a regular occurrence in the Lower Mainland. Gun tracing would be one of the tools that would help reduce this. Mandatory gun tracing is not expensive, Identify the source of illegal weapons, remove the source, and you can significantly reduce gun violence and not affect the rights of legitimate gun/rifle owners.
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oldtrucker
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Re: Gun Control

Post by oldtrucker »

GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 1:00 pm Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
Surprised no one brought up the unspoken rules men have about suicide and keeping quiet. Men...we all know that we have a much higher suicide rate than women( for reasons I'm not getting into here) but we don't stop each other from doing it. We know there is no other way out sometimes...
A long while back I called a newspaper ad( ya long before the internet) about some rifles I wanted to buy. Long story short, the guy wanted rid of all his guns except one- a Winchester 30-30. He had terminal health problems, his wife died a few years back, he just buried his mother and his kids forgot he existed. He said he needed to keep it as he had no other way out after he wrapped up his affairs. He had the same disease as his mother and didn't want to go thru all the pain and problems she did to have the same result. He was thankful I understood. Not much to understand really.... No money, no one who cares( not that that matters...outcome is the same) and terminally ill. I respected his choice and I believe his right to choose how and when he checks out
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 2:15 pm
GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 1:00 pm Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
We also need to ban fast food, pop and bacon.

Heart Disease:
It is the 2nd leading cause of death in Canada.

Also known as ischemic heart disease or coronary heart disease, heart disease refers to the buildup of plaque in the heart's arteries that could lead to a heart attack, heart failure, or death.

2012/13 data from the Public Health Agency of Canada's Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance System (CCDSS) indicate that:

About 1 in 12 (or 2.4 million) Canadian adults age 20 and over live with diagnosed heart disease;
Every hour, about 12 Canadian adults aged 20 and over with diagnosed heart disease die.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... anada.html
That's not the topic of this thread tho', is it?.....now try again, but the reality and the stat will still be death by suicide by guns is the leading cause of gun violence in Canada.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

oldtrucker wrote: May 24th, 2022, 8:40 am
GordonH wrote: May 20th, 2022, 1:00 pm Based on following Canada seriously needs to ban rope & poison.

Suicide: The leading methods of suicide are (1) hanging (44%), including strangulation and suffocation; (2) poisoning (25%) and (3) shooting (16%).

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm
Surprised no one brought up the unspoken rules men have about suicide and keeping quiet. Men...we all know that we have a much higher suicide rate than women( for reasons I'm not getting into here) but we don't stop each other from doing it. We know there is no other way out sometimes...
A long while back I called a newspaper ad( ya long before the internet) about some rifles I wanted to buy. Long story short, the guy wanted rid of all his guns except one- a Winchester 30-30. He had terminal health problems, his wife died a few years back, he just buried his mother and his kids forgot he existed. He said he needed to keep it as he had no other way out after he wrapped up his affairs. He had the same disease as his mother and didn't want to go thru all the pain and problems she did to have the same result. He was thankful I understood. Not much to understand really.... No money, no one who cares( not that that matters...outcome is the same) and terminally ill. I respected his choice and I believe his right to choose how and when he checks out
Me too....but I think I would lean towards CO poisoning. Oh wait....that might happen soon with our globe. :biggrin:

I believe that's the leading choice of Canadians that commit suicide by guns tho is by rifles.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 24th, 2022, 9:16 am
Nedroj wrote: May 20th, 2022, 2:15 pm

We also need to ban fast food, pop and bacon.

Heart Disease:
It is the 2nd leading cause of death in Canada.

Also known as ischemic heart disease or coronary heart disease, heart disease refers to the buildup of plaque in the heart's arteries that could lead to a heart attack, heart failure, or death.

2012/13 data from the Public Health Agency of Canada's Canadian Chronic Disease Surveillance System (CCDSS) indicate that:

About 1 in 12 (or 2.4 million) Canadian adults age 20 and over live with diagnosed heart disease;
Every hour, about 12 Canadian adults aged 20 and over with diagnosed heart disease die.

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/ ... anada.html
That's not the topic of this thread tho', is it?.....now try again, but the reality and the stat will still be death by suicide by guns is the leading cause of gun violence in Canada.
Heart disease kills more Canadians than almost every other cause listed including suicide by all methods let alone firearm-related cases. If the overall goal is to preserve life, addressing heart disease would save the most lives.

But a question to you about Suicide, How can anyone commit "Gun-Violence" towards themselves?
Is it still called "Violence" when it's a suicide scenario?

You still fail to see the bigger picture due to your arrogance and shortsightedness. People that are ready and willing to commit suicide will find a means to do it. You dont need a gun.
Suicide accounts for approximately 4000 deaths a year in Canada, of which about 16% of those are suicide using a firearm.

When examining firearm suicides, the Canadian rate of 3.3 per 100,000 population is similar to Australia (2.4), and New Zealand (2.5), and much lower than Finland (5.8), and the United States (7.2).
So we have a similar FIREARM suicide rate to Australia. A country that has banned almost all firearm ownership including shotguns and hunting rifles that we still allow.

So please explain how a country with far fewer firearms, has a very similar Firearm suicide rate?

You can't because you are so full of poop, your eyes are brown.
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foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 24th, 2022, 10:59 am
foenix wrote: May 24th, 2022, 9:16 am

That's not the topic of this thread tho', is it?.....now try again, but the reality and the stat will still be death by suicide by guns is the leading cause of gun violence in Canada.
Heart disease kills more Canadians than almost every other cause listed including suicide by all methods let alone firearm-related cases. If the overall goal is to preserve life, addressing heart disease would save the most lives.

This thread isn't about heart disease or any other way to suicide, if that's what you want to talk about, why not start another thread?
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 24th, 2022, 10:59 am
When examining firearm suicides, the Canadian rate of 3.3 per 100,000 population is similar to Australia (2.4), and New Zealand (2.5), and much lower than Finland (5.8), and the United States (7.2).
So we have a similar FIREARM suicide rate to Australia. A country that has banned almost all firearm ownership including shotguns and hunting rifles that we still allow.

So please explain how a country with far fewer firearms, has a very similar Firearm suicide rate?

You can't because you are so full of poop, your eyes are brown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Not according to this link....we're twice the rate as Australia, hey?.....brown eyes :biggrin:

Compare us to Japan and UK and it's even worse.....1.40 to 0.01 (Japan) and UK (0.16)
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 24th, 2022, 11:26 am
Nedroj wrote: May 24th, 2022, 10:59 am


So we have a similar FIREARM suicide rate to Australia. A country that has banned almost all firearm ownership including shotguns and hunting rifles that we still allow.

So please explain how a country with far fewer firearms, has a very similar Firearm suicide rate?

You can't because you are so full of poop, your eyes are brown.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Not according to this link....we're twice the rate as Australia, hey?.....brown eyes :biggrin:

Compare us to Japan and UK and it's even worse.....1.40 to 0.01 (Japan) and UK (0.16)
Japan has a much higher rate of Suicide in general than Canada. Japan 17.9 vs Canada 12.9. The fact that Canada has a higher rate of Firearm Suicide means nothing at all other than Canadian men are more likely to use a firearm than not but they are more likely to use Hanging or Poison than a firearm.

You're trusting WIKIpedia over my Government of Canada official stats? No wonder your arguments are out to lunch.

4.2 International Comparisons
Total suicide and firearm suicide rates per 100,000 population vary considerably from one country to another. Canada’s total suicide rate of 12.9 is similar to Australia (12.7), Norway (12.3), and the United States (11.5). Estonia (40) and Japan (17.9) are among the countries that have higher rates than Canada, while several other countries have rates below one per 100,000 population (United Nations, 1998: 112-113).

When examining firearm suicides, the Canadian rate of 3.3 per 100,000 population is similar to Australia (2.4), and New Zealand (2.5), and much lower than Finland (5.8), and the United States (7.2). Firearm suicides are less common in the United Kingdom, Japan, and 11 other countries that had rates well below one per 100,000 population (United Nations, 1998: 108-109; see also: Cantor et al., 1996). The percentage of suicides committed with firearms for the 34 countries that reported data through the survey ranged from 0.2 percent in Japan, to 70 percent in Brazil (Idem: 105). The average percentage was 18.7 (Ibidem). The proportion of suicides committed with firearms was 26 percent in Canada and 62.7 in the United States (Idem: 112-113).
Regulatory approaches that decrease the availability of firearms are hypothesized to reduce suicide by firearm however the substitution effect suggests it is possible that people may substitute other methods of suicide in place. Canadian studies on associations between legislation, regulation, and suicide rates have been published over the last three decades, and a search revealed thirteen that met the criteria. Seven studies examined the association between Bill C-51 and suicide rates and found that while rates of suicide by firearm appeared to have declined in association with regulations, there appears to be a substitution effect into other methods and no overall change in suicide rates.

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj ... _4/p4.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3521000554


Sorry Phenix but your argument is nothing but ashes.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Yet in other threads, Canada government stats are bunk according to many here.....so pick your poison. It's all on how the two links determined the numbers of gun deaths by firearms as to their numbers. In this case the Wiki is more believable than the Canadian stat.....too bad they don't show their math m̶a̶n̶i̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ figuring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Certainly, the Wiki link passes the "eyeball" test as Canada with more firearms would naturally have twice the gun deaths as Australia......and certainly with Japan and UK whoes civilians have virtually no firearms and therefore statistically insignificant death by suicide by firearms......but nice try tho, you're getting lukewarm.

....and of course, Less guns = Less gun deaths holds true in suicides and gun homicides.....
In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.......A study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides............“Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.”.....While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation.
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 24th, 2022, 12:13 pm Yet in other threads, Canada government stats are bunk according to many here.....so pick your poison. It's all on how the two links determined the numbers of gun deaths by firearms as to their numbers. In this case the Wiki is more believable than the Canadian stat.....too bad they don't show their math m̶a̶n̶i̶p̶u̶l̶a̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ figuring.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... death_rate

Certainly, the Wiki link passes the "eyeball" test as Canada with more firearms would naturally have twice the gun deaths as Australia......and certainly with Japan and UK whoes civilians have virtually no firearms and therefore statistically insignificant death by suicide by firearms......but nice try tho, you're getting lukewarm.

....and of course, Less guns = Less gun deaths holds true in suicides and gun homicides.....
In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.......A study conducted 10 years after Port Arthur concluded: “Australia’s 1996 gun law reforms were followed by more than a decade free of fatal mass shootings, and accelerated declines in firearm deaths, particularly suicides............“Total homicide rates followed the same pattern. Removing large numbers of rapid-firing firearms from civilians may be an effective way of reducing mass shootings, firearm homicides and firearm suicides.”.....While it also noted an accelerated decline in firearms deaths since the ban, and a statistically significant acceleration in the downward trend of firearm suicides, it concluded they could not be causally linked to Mr Howard’s ban despite this correlation.
So you are refuting official government stats because you disagree with them...........

*removed* I posted official links to government stats that clearly said in Canada.
Seven studies examined the association between Bill C-51 and suicide rates and found that while rates of suicide by firearm appeared to have declined in association with regulations, there appears to be a substitution effect into other methods and no overall change in suicide rates.
Key piece of information:
NO OVERALL CHANGE IN SUICIDE RATE.

Beginning in the mid-1980s through 2002, the rate
of suicide involving a firearm fell from 5 to 2 deaths
per 100,000. The falling rate of firearms-related
suicides is reflected in a declining use of shooting
as a means of committing suicide. Among all
suicides committed from 1979 and throughout the
1980s, around one-third involved firearms.
Beginning in the early 1990s, this share began to
drop, and by 2002, about 1 in 6 suicides was carried
out with a firearm. As gun-related suicides declined,
suicide by suffocation/hanging became more
common: the rate rose from about 3 to 5 deaths
per 100,000.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/en/pub/ ... t=k74PGVTy
Last edited by ferri on May 25th, 2022, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Making it personal
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