Gun Control

featfan
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Re: Gun Control

Post by featfan »

Make no mistake. Canadian Liberal politicians have tabled legislation to remove mandatory minimum sentences for some serious, violent gun crimes. But boy, do they ever beat the *bleep* out of legal, licensed, RCMP vetted gun owners.

This is where we are.

All to be repealed

Using a firearm or imitation firearm in commission of offence (two separate offences)
Paragraphs 85(3)(a) and (b): MMPs of 1 year (first offence) and 3 years (second and subsequent offence)
Possession of firearm or weapon knowing its possession is unauthorized (two separate offences)
Paragraphs 92(3)(b) and (c): MMP of 1 year (second offence) and 2 years less a day (third and subsequent offence)
Possession of prohibited or restricted firearm with ammunition
Paragraphs 95(2)(i) and (ii): MMPs of 3 years (first offence) and 5 years (second and subsequent offence)
Possession of weapon obtained by commission of offence
Paragraph 96(2)(a): MMP of 1 year
Weapons trafficking (excluding firearms and ammunition)
Subsection 99(3): MMP of 1 year
Possession for purpose of weapons trafficking (excluding firearms and ammunition)
Subsection 100(3): MMP of 1 year
Importing or exporting knowing it is unauthorized
Subsection 103(2.1): MMP of 1 year
Discharging firearm with intent
Paragraph 244(2)(b): MMP of 4 years
Discharging firearm — recklessness
Paragraph 244.2(3)(b): MMP of 4 years
Robbery with a firearm
Paragraph 344(1)(a.1): MMP of 4 years
Extortion with a firearm
Paragraph 346(1.1)(a.1): MMP of 4 years
Selling, etc., of tobacco products and raw leaf tobacco
Subparagraphs 121.1 (4)(a)(i),(ii) and (iii): MMPs of 90 days (second offence), MMP of 180 days (third offence) and MMP of 2 years less a day (fourth and subsequent offence)
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 25th, 2022, 9:45 am

Once again, this thread isn't about total suicides it's about GUN DEATHS from Suicides. That's why this thread is titled "Gun Control". I know there is a reading comprehension problem here but if one wanted to start a thread on suicides in general.....be my guest. But here, this illustrate the problem of having too many guns in society. I mean we already see the out of control gun problem to our neighbour to the South of us.

b.PNG

See the graph, we have the 7th highest gun ownership in the world at 34.70 guns owned per 100,000. Australia is at 13.6 guns per 100,000. See the difference in deaths by suicides and homicides by the respective countries. Aust. at .72 (suicides) and 0.15 (homicides). Canada is at 1.42 (suicides) and 0.52 (homicides). That's the direct relationship of more Guns = more Gun Deaths.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... g.htm#cvsd

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/82- ... t2-eng.htm


Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).

Males were most likely to commit suicide by hanging (46%) while females most often died by poisoning (42%) (Chart 2). Males (20%) were far more likely to use firearms than females (3%).

When examining firearm suicides, the Canadian rate of 3.3 per 100,000 population is similar to Australia (2.4), and New Zealand (2.5), and much lower than Finland (5.8), and the United States (7.2).
Pay attention to the last one there FIREARM SUICIDE RATES for Canada 3.3. The firearm Suicide rate for Australia/New Zealand 2.4/2.5.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country


Now lets look at gun ownership in these three countries.

Canada 34.7
New Zealand 26.3
Australia 14.5

By your logic "More guns = more gun deaths" Canada should have over twice the suicide rate by firearm as Australia.
Yet all three have very similar suicide by firearm rates.........

Much like your grammar, your logic is also flawed.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 25th, 2022, 2:37 pm
Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).

Males were most likely to commit suicide by hanging (46%) while females most often died by poisoning (42%) (Chart 2). Males (20%) were far more likely to use firearms than females (3%).

When examining firearm suicides, the Canadian rate of 3.3 per 100,000 population is similar to Australia (2.4), and New Zealand (2.5), and much lower than Finland (5.8), and the United States (7.2).
Pay attention to the last one there FIREARM SUICIDE RATES for Canada 3.3. The firearm Suicide rate for Australia/New Zealand 2.4/2.5.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country


Now lets look at gun ownership in these three countries.

Canada 34.7
New Zealand 26.3
Australia 14.5

By your logic "More guns = more gun deaths" Canada should have over twice the suicide rate by firearm as Australia.
Yet all three have very similar suicide by firearm rates.........

Much like your grammar, your logic is also flawed.
[icon_lol2.gif] Much like the reading comprehension, the lack of attention to details and dates is astounding. Try looking at the dates on the Canadian government website especially the date citations when they are quoting all those stats. They haven't bothered to update their data, summery or the conclusion since they used the statistics from the 90's. I'm thinking you haven't noticed that hey? In this case the Wiki links for the various rate of suicide by firearms for the different countries are more up to date and accurate. Australia and New Zealand haven't seen suicide by firearms at 2.4/2.5 per 100,000 since the 90's.....since then both country's suicide by firearms rate per 100K have steady gone down to what it is now ( well to 2016) to 0.72 for Australia and 0.92 for New Zealand. Here you might want to catch up and use more recent stats that doesn't depend on stats from the 90's. This one is interactive from gunPolicy.Org and will give you the rate of firearm suicide death per 100,000 for every country since the 90's....... all you have to do is spell it correctly :biggrin: . Pay particular attention to Australia and New Zealand in the 90's when their suicide death by firearms were close with ours but not anymore because we have the 7th highest gun ownership in the world now.


https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/comp ... un_suicide
mikest2
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Posts: 2353
Joined: Aug 7th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

foenix wrote: May 25th, 2022, 9:45 am
Nedroj wrote: May 25th, 2022, 9:20 am

Except I'm not spinning anything. You are. Anyone that is reading this is going to look at your comments and look at my StatsCan linked data and the quotes and know right away, that you are full of it.





So you are proposing to take away millions of legal hunting rifles from law-abiding citizens because 25% of suicides (1000 people) used a similar long gun?

You also mention Japan due to its incredibly low suicide rate by firearms. Yes due to firearms regulations regular citizens are not allowed to own one.

Yet the TOTAL suicide rate in Japan (17.9) per 100,000 pop is far worse than Canada's rate of 12.9 per 100,000 pop and is even worse than the USA suicide rate.





https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/csj ... _4/p4.html



Once again, this thread isn't about total suicides it's about GUN DEATHS from Suicides. That's why this thread is titled "Gun Control". I know there is a reading comprehension problem here but if one wanted to start a thread on suicides in general.....be my guest. But here, this illustrate the problem of having too many guns in society. I mean we already see the out of control gun problem to our neighbour to the South of us.

b.PNG

See the graph, we have the 7th highest gun ownership in the world at 34.70 guns owned per 100,000. Australia is at 13.6 guns per 100,000. See the difference in deaths by suicides and homicides by the respective countries. Aust. at .72 (suicides) and 0.15 (homicides). Canada is at 1.42 (suicides) and 0.52 (homicides). That's the direct relationship of more Guns = more Gun Deaths.
Once again I'd like to point out that this forum is about "gun control", not about "GUN DEATHS from Suicides"
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

It's gun violence and gun control is part of that but I know a little inconvenient fact for y'all gun lovers because we aren't writing about gun homicides and illegal guns which is a small part of the overall gun violence problem in Canada.
mikest2
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

foenix wrote: May 25th, 2022, 7:12 pm It's gun violence and gun control is part of that but I know a little inconvenient fact for y'all gun lovers because we aren't writing about gun homicides and illegal guns which is a small part of the overall gun violence problem in Canada.
You are woefully wrong, I am not a gun lover, I am a hunter and a sport shooter. You are maligning me, a lot of my friends, and the firearms community as a whole. All you do is parrot the misinformation from the PMO. National range day is coming up at all the fish and game clubs, we'll show you how to operate firearms safely and let you poke some holes in paper. You'd have a great time and learn a lot, and it's all free. If you do indeed have an open mind, we'll see you there !
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

mikest2 wrote: May 25th, 2022, 7:26 pm
foenix wrote: May 25th, 2022, 7:12 pm It's gun violence and gun control is part of that but I know a little inconvenient fact for y'all gun lovers because we aren't writing about gun homicides and illegal guns which is a small part of the overall gun violence problem in Canada.
You are woefully wrong, I am not a gun lover, I am a hunter and a sport shooter. You are maligning me, a lot of my friends, and the firearms community as a whole. All you do is parrot the misinformation from the PMO. National range day is coming up at all the fish and game clubs, we'll show you how to operate firearms safely and let you poke some holes in paper. You'd have a great time and learn a lot, and it's all free. If you do indeed have an open mind, we'll see you there !
What misinformation, if there is anything I wrote that is misinformation, please point them out. Btw, I grew up in the States, got my sharpshooter rating from the NRA (way back when) and taken handgun safety courses so it's not like I'm a novice.

I do feel for y'all tho, like in anything else, it only takes a few bad apples to tarnish the entire basket of responsible gun owners but it is what it is with the bad apples.
mikest2
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on May 26th, 2022, 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on May 26th, 2022, 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Off Topic
mikest2
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Posts: 2353
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Re: Gun Control

Post by mikest2 »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on May 26th, 2022, 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Response to removed post.
Once I thought I was wrong.....but I was mistaken...
foenix
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Joined: Mar 30th, 2020, 1:30 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

*removed*
Last edited by ferri on May 26th, 2022, 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Response to removed post.
Nedroj
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Posts: 925
Joined: Apr 10th, 2014, 2:36 pm

Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 25th, 2022, 7:03 pm

[icon_lol2.gif] Much like the reading comprehension, the lack of attention to details and dates is astounding. Try looking at the dates on the Canadian government website especially the date citations when they are quoting all those stats. They haven't bothered to update their data, summery or the conclusion since they used the statistics from the 90's. I'm thinking you haven't noticed that hey? In this case the Wiki links for the various rate of suicide by firearms for the different countries are more up to date and accurate. Australia and New Zealand haven't seen suicide by firearms at 2.4/2.5 per 100,000 since the 90's.....since then both country's suicide by firearms rate per 100K have steady gone down to what it is now ( well to 2016) to 0.72 for Australia and 0.92 for New Zealand. Here you might want to catch up and use more recent stats that doesn't depend on stats from the 90's. This one is interactive from gunPolicy.Org and will give you the rate of firearm suicide death per 100,000 for every country since the 90's....... all you have to do is spell it correctly :biggrin: . Pay particular attention to Australia and New Zealand in the 90's when their suicide death by firearms were close with ours but not anymore because we have the 7th highest gun ownership in the world now.


https://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/comp ... un_suicide

Firearm ownership per country in 2022:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Canada:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 12.7 million
Rate: 34.70
Military Firearms: 233,949
Law Enforcement firearms: 103,000

Australia:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 3.6 million
Rate:14.50
Military Firearms: 214,520
Law Enforcement firearms: 69,000

New Zealand:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 1.2 million
Rate: 26.30
Military Firearms: 38,280
Law Enforcement firearms: 13,000


Gun Violence per Country in 2022:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Canada:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 2.05
Homicide rate per year: 0.61
Suicide rate per year: 1.52
Total Deaths number per year: 767

Australia:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 1.04
Homicide rate per year: 0.18
Suicide rate per year: 0.8
Total Death number per year: 262

New Zealand:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 1.07
Homicide rate per year: 0.11
Suicide rate per year: 0.84
Total death number per year: 51


Now that I've provided 2022 data for all three countries on GUN VIOLENCE stats, please explain your logic when New Zealand has very similar rates of Gun Violence to Australia, yet New Zealand has gun ownership rates much much closer to Canada's than Australia's?

Your logic that more guns equal more gun violence isn't accurate.

None of this has anything to do with gun ownership and everything to do with mental health which affects all humans across the entire globe.

In our civilized world, it is not normal human behavior to kill another human. Therefore it is logical to assume that anyone that has killed anyone in cold blood is not normal and clearly that person is suffering from some sort of mental health issue.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
foenix
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Re: Gun Control

Post by foenix »

Nedroj wrote: May 26th, 2022, 8:36 am
Now that I've provided 2022 data for all three countries on GUN VIOLENCE stats, please explain your logic when New Zealand has very similar rates of Gun Violence to Australia, yet New Zealand has gun ownership rates much much closer to Canada's than Australia's?

Your logic that more guns equal more gun violence isn't accurate.

None of this has anything to do with gun ownership and everything to do with mental health which affects all humans across the entire globe.

In our civilized world, it is not normal human behavior to kill another human. Therefore it is logical to assume that anyone that has killed anyone in cold blood is not normal and clearly that person is suffering from some sort of mental health issue.
:biggrin: Let Harvard explain it to you....

Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review)

Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide

Across states, more guns = more homicide

Across states, more guns = more homicide

More guns = more homicides of police

Gun availability is a risk factor for suicide

Across states, more guns = more suicide

Differences in mental health cannot explain the regional more guns = more suicide connection

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fire ... and-death/

BTW.....I'm glad you've caught up to some of your stats from the 90's tho.
Nedroj
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Re: Gun Control

Post by Nedroj »

foenix wrote: May 26th, 2022, 8:46 am
Nedroj wrote: May 26th, 2022, 8:36 am
Canada:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 12.7 million
Rate: 34.70
Military Firearms: 233,949
Law Enforcement firearms: 103,000

Australia:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 3.6 million
Rate:14.50
Military Firearms: 214,520
Law Enforcement firearms: 69,000

New Zealand:
Total Firearms Civilian owned: 1.2 million
Rate: 26.30
Military Firearms: 38,280
Law Enforcement firearms: 13,000


Gun Violence per Country in 2022:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Canada:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 2.05
Homicide rate per year: 0.61
Suicide rate per year: 1.52
Total Deaths number per year: 767

Australia:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 1.04
Homicide rate per year: 0.18
Suicide rate per year: 0.8
Total Death number per year: 262

New Zealand:
Firearm related death rate per 100,000 pop: 1.07
Homicide rate per year: 0.11
Suicide rate per year: 0.84
Total death number per year: 51
:biggrin: Let Harvard explain it to you....

Where there are more guns there is more homicide (literature review)

Across high-income nations, more guns = more homicide

Across states, more guns = more homicide

Across states, more guns = more homicide

More guns = more homicides of police

Gun availability is a risk factor for suicide

Across states, more guns = more suicide

Differences in mental health cannot explain the regional more guns = more suicide connection

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/fire ... and-death/

BTW.....I'm glad you've caught up to some of your stats from the 90's tho.
Bolding your text doesn't prove any point other than you think "yelling" at me through text will all of a sudden make your horrible opinion, valid. It does not. And nothing you say in bold text will prove otherwise. The numbers are right there.

New Zealand has far more guns than Australia yet they have very similar and in some cases lower gun violence statistics.

Another example is Germany, They have more firearms than Canada. 12.7 million versus 15.8 million.
Yet their firearm related death rate per year is 0.99 which is almost the same as New Zealand and Australia and half the amount of Canada's.

Germany:
Homicide rate per year is 1.01
Suicide rate per year is 0.02
Total death number per year: 826

Germany in 2022:
Total Firearm civilian owned: 15.8 million
Gun ownership rate: 19.60
Military firearms: 483,016
Law Enforcement: 466,000
Last edited by Nedroj on May 26th, 2022, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
'I hear and I forget, I see and I remember, I do and I understand' - Confucius
motokelowna1
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Re: Gun Control

Post by motokelowna1 »

Being an Australian and have had friends that go Kangaroo , Duck and Goat hunting safety with these people was paramount . Now living in Canada closer to the crazies down south *bleep*. The audacity of the gun lobby its all about money. The supporters of the policies without public care should be shot. Then they will see the clock change quickly.

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