Gun Control

blueliner
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by blueliner »

Todd Lamirande
APTN News
Indigenous hunters will be excluded from Canada’s sweeping ban on 1,500 assault weapons announced Friday.

“There will be an exception for Indigenous people’s exercising a section 35 hunting right, as well as those who use the weapon for hunting to feed themselves or their family,” said Justice Minister David Lametti.

“They may continue using firearms that were previously non-restricted for these purposes until a suitable replacement can be acquired.”

The ban, which was on the Liberal agenda prior to the pandemic, comes after a gunman in Nova Scotia killed 22 people making it the worse mass shooting in the country’s history.

The list includes the popular AR-15 rifle and the Ruger Mini-14 used to kill 14 women at Montreal’s Ecole Polytechnique in 1989.

“Today we are closing the market for military-grade assault weapons in Canada,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told a news conference.

“Every single Canadian wants to see less gun violence and safer communities.”

There is a two-year amnesty period while the government creates a program that will allow current owners to receive compensation for turning in the designated firearms or keep them through a grandfathering process yet to be worked out.

Under the amnesty, the newly prohibited firearms can only be transferred or transported within Canada for specific purposes. Owners must keep the guns securely stored until there is more information on the buyback program.

Trudeau cited numerous mass shootings, from Ecole Polytechnique to the killings in Nova Scotia last month, as the reasons for the move. Some guns have legitimate uses, including recreational shooting, he said, “but you don’t need an AR-15 to bring down a deer.”

Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer accused the prime minister of using the COVID-19 pandemic and the immediate emotion of the horrific murders in Nova Scotia to push the Liberals’ ideological agenda and make major firearms policy changes.

“Taking firearms away from law-abiding citizens does nothing to stop dangerous criminals who obtain their guns illegally,” Scheer said in a statement.

The Liberals reiterated promises to introduce other gun-control measures, including a plan to empower provinces and cities to manage the storage and use of handguns within their individual jurisdictions.
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t76turbo
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by t76turbo »

What’s with all the moronic talk about AR15 and deer hunting. AR15’s have been on the restricted list for god knows how long. You couldn’t hunt with them before. Why doesn’t someone with some power call this idiot out?
I too am royally *bleep* at this dress up playing man child.
The duche that killed so many in Nova Scotia also used a firearm obtained by murder when he killed the police officer. Wasn’t that already illegal, so why even go down that road?

I am affected by this ban, I own a Ruger Mini 30. My go to deer rifle out of many rifles I own. I actually also own true military rifles that are not banned, the infamous and cheap SKS. A Semi auto that is incredible fast to reload with stripper clips. Build by east-block countries for their military, predecessor of the overly infamous AK47 ( prohibited looong ago, that means)
I have others that I don’t care to mention that are also not on the list yet are “black” and thankfully not yet on the list :135: . But hey maybe tomorrow. Oh and if there is a buy back program like promised (I read the entire Gazette posting) many of these now super scary mass murder utensils are pretty pricey boom sticks. You da taxpayer already getting bent over by Covid 19 hyper hysteria are going to be shelling out big bucks for something that just hangs out in a safe and may, I really mean may make it to a range once a year. Get ready it’s gonna cost waaayyy more than anticipated like the now defunct gun registry.

This idiot running this country into the ground knows nothing about any of these rifles yet stands on his high chair (should be sitting like the toddler he is) and tells the masses that Canada has put an end to mass murder shootings by outlawing bad bad scary guns.
And to others on here commenting that know almost nothing about guns and or what “auto” means or what “assault” portrays, go eat some avocado toast.....um, I actually like avocado anything and not fair to the fruit here but you get my point.

So let’s say tomorrow Dick Trudeau bans Ferrari’s, Lambos and Mclarens because they are able to reach incredible speeds and could possibly kill, and heaven forbid one shall slam into a bus full of nuns instantly killing all, calling it mass murder as driving at high speed with undue care and attention or perhaps dangerous driving already is illegal and that those type of cars are not needed for mass transport, as any VW Golf or Hyundai would do. And perhaps let’s throw in, BMW M5/M6 or AMG 65/63 any class) into the mix cause they have way more power than the non race bread versions and let’s say if your an Italian, British or Gemansky race car driver you shall be exempt, you know because it’s your countries heritage....(because Aboriginal/Natives can hunt with Ar’s... huhh, take another toke)

Wow I’m bewildered at the idiocy that so many are buying into. Coming from this cow dung slinging gurgling oil sands killing garbage of a leaders’ uhhhh ummm ahhhh mouth.

URGHHH he so disgusts me than I’m truly ashamed at myself for actually hating someone, and I don’t hate anyone cept embarrassing Mr. Dressup.
Last edited by t76turbo on May 2nd, 2020, 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.
I really like your post, just can’t find the button. I’m part of the fringe minority.
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edmskeptic
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Gun Control

Post by edmskeptic »

Because Facebook decided to make gun control a priority on my newsfeed I feel the need to share my thoughts on History and how the issue of armed citizens came about.

The idea of citizens having arms is not so much about individuals running around with weapons as it is about enabling the formation of groups of people capable of defending communities from Government Without Consent.
Notorious examples of Governments Without Consent include: Stalinist Russia; Chairman Mao's Chinese Communist Revoution; and the most infamous one of Germany under the National Socialist Party.
Each of those governments caused the deaths of Millions.

This week, what should have happened in Canada was a debate about the safety of unarmed citizens versus the risk of genocides when citizens are disarmed. What is there to protect communities from a dictator, either foreign or domestic if citizens have no power?
As a Canadian I consented to rule by parliament who should have sat down to debate this important issue.
This did not happen in Canada this week.
iSnack
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Re: Gun Control

Post by iSnack »

"Engagement Summary Report - Reducing Violent Crime: A Dialogue on Handguns and Assault-Style Firearms"

http://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/rsrcs ... ex-en.aspx

And a few other resources:

"Canadian Militia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Militia


"Historical Narratives of Early Canada

THE MILITIA

History is a guide to enlightened citizenship."

http://www.uppercanadahistory.ca/milita ... tary8.html


"Militia Myths: Ideas of the Canadian Citizen Soldier, 1896-1921

James Wood"

http://www.ubcpress.ca/asset/9466/1/9780774817653.pdf


And there's a pile of stuff in Canada’s Criminal Code.

Maybe a start:

“Offences Against Public Order
Treason and other Offences against the Queen’s Authority and Person”

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts ... age-8.html
iSnack
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by iSnack »

But if my Canada’s consultation process, history, and Criminal Code sandwich doesn’t satisfy your appetite as far as filling your belly towards measuring up to ‘Merica’s 2nd Amendment, then there’s always the good old, “Oaks and Acorns,” parfait for dessert.

“Section 1 and the Acorn (Oaks) Test

s.1: The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such REASONABLE LIMITS prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.”

So:

“How do you decide if a limit to your Charter rights or freedoms is reasonable and justified? Ask and answer the CCLET’s Acorn Test questions and decide for yourself!”

Try the handy-dandy flow chart that’s laid out in this link!

http://ccla.org/cclanewsite/wp-content/ ... n-Test.pdf
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Gone_Fishin
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by Gone_Fishin »

I'd like to know how his cheerleaders give him a free pass on this, but call out the firearm for its appearance.


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Gone_Fishin
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Re: Order in council gun ban

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Zoso
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by Zoso »

52% of people on the sidewalk in the city think all guns should be banned ..who cares. Cant be polling and creating skewed outlook . Fake news.
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seewood
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by seewood »

hobbyguy wrote:Actually that is incorrect. An order in council can be cancelled by a future government without much trouble. It gets done fairly regularly.

Example: The long form census was established by order in council, Harper then cancelled it with a new order in council, and JT brought it back with another order in council.

Orders in council need only be in compliance with existing legislation. So unless the legislation needs to be changed for the order in council to fall within it, it is quite straight forward to change an order in council.


blueliner wrote:There is a two-year amnesty period while the government creates a program that will allow current owners to receive compensation for turning in the designated firearms or keep them through a grandfathering process yet to be worked out.


Ok, with these two bits of information, I wonder when the next confidence vote will happen in the house. Just perhaps that might be a way to punt this lot out and a new government would have two years to pass another Order in Council.

One can dream, right...
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mcgiver
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by mcgiver »

Pete:

I have been an instructor and re-loader for many years and a field officer with the NFA. I have gone through the list of guns and didn't find yours there at all, maybe I've missed it but I don't think so. As for the Joules of your gun - the 416 Weatherby Magnum has roughly 6,000 ft-lbs - 8,135 Joules of muzzle energy. So yours is not one of the guns Trudeau is taking. But again I don't remember your gun being listed by name so you should be good to go.




Pete Podoski wrote:
Merry wrote:The guns on the to be banned list don't appear to be the kind most hunters would use, so in that sense I don't have a problem with the list. However, I do have a problem with suddenly banning something that used to be legal, and then not compensating the owners.


90% on that list are used worldwide for hunting.

Armalites are one of the most popular deer hunting rifles in North America.

A 416 Weatherby single shot moose hunting rifle is now banned.

You think this isn't a hunting rifle? Trudeau just banned it.

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Gone_Fishin
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by Gone_Fishin »

Zoso wrote:52% of people on the sidewalk in the city think all guns should be banned ..who cares. Cant be polling and creating skewed outlook . Fake news.


Poll was 300 people in each of Van, Tor, Mon, etc. Polls with a wider and more representative sample give much different results, with yesterday's CTV poll showing 12% wanting bans, 88% opposed.

What does this person from downtown Toronto know about firearms?


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Even Steven
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by Even Steven »

Pete Podoski wrote:Justin Trudeau: "No one needs an AR-15 to take down a deer."

Also Justin Trudeau: "Indigenous people can keep their AR-15s to hunt with."

Huh?

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Why do indigenous people have a right to hunt with rifles? It's not like white people took their guns away when they came...complete opposite in fact.
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Gone_Fishin
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by Gone_Fishin »

mcgiver wrote:Pete:

I have been an instructor and re-loader for many years and a field officer with the NFA. I have gone through the list of guns and didn't find yours there at all, maybe I've missed it but I don't think so. As for the Joules of your gun - the 416 Weatherby Magnum has roughly 6,000 ft-lbs - 8,135 Joules of muzzle energy. So yours is not one of the guns Trudeau is taking. But again I don't remember your gun being listed by name so you should be good to go.


I think he may have been referring to the 460 Weatherby, not the 416. The 460 is over 10,000 joules with a 500 grain bullet at a slow 2600 fps. Regardless, none of the firearms chosen for the ban are any more inherently dangerous than a venerable old 303 Enfield.

The biggest problem is not the firearms chosen, it was the usurping of democratic process and the dancing on the graves of victims by the Liberals.

And now we've found out, right from a Liberal MP, why they dictatorially confiscated private property of law abiding citizens. "We can't get the necessary unanimous consent" so they subverted democracy to ram their failed agenda through.


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honeymuffins
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by honeymuffins »

Gone_Fishin wrote:
Zoso wrote:52% of people on the sidewalk in the city think all guns should be banned ..who cares. Cant be polling and creating skewed outlook . Fake news.


Poll was 300 people in each of Van, Tor, Mon, etc. Polls with a wider and more representative sample give much different results, with yesterday's CTV poll showing 12% wanting bans, 88% opposed.

What does this person from downtown Toronto know about firearms?


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zerograv
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Re: Order in council gun ban

Post by zerograv »

Pete Podoski wrote:
Armalite Rifles including the AR-15 were not designed for military use.

Neither was the 416 Weatherby moose hunting rifle.

.303 Lee Enfield was designed for military use, not on the list.

Try again.


I'm on the fence on this issue, but this is the type of misinformation that needs to stop if owners of these weapons want to put up a logical argument on why they need these types of weapons

An AR15 was specifically designed for military use. After the Korean war the US military was looking to replace the T44E4 with a more versatile weapon that could also use the new NATO 7.62mm, so ArmaLite puy in a late entry and submitted the AR10.

After the US selected the M14 as it's military weapon, it was severely outclassed when up against the AK 47 in the early parts of the vietnam war.

US continental Army Command requested a new weapon with a .223 caliber that could penetrate a standard US M1 helmet at 500 yards. The request resulted in the development of the AR15.

After minor modifications and being sold to Colt, the US adopted the AR15 into military service during the remainder of the vietnam war. They called it the M16. After the war, colt introduced the semi auto only colt AR15, mainly marketed for law enforcement, but adapted to civilian use.

The USAF used M16's stamped ArmaLite AR-15 well into the 1990s.


Regardless of what you want to use these weapons for, let's not pretend they are something they aren't. They were specifically designed to kill during the korean and Vietnam wars.

More people might be willing to listen to gun owners and their concerns if they didn't try to fudge the history to suite their narrative. :up:
Last edited by zerograv on May 2nd, 2020, 9:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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