Ease up on drug charges

TylerM4
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by TylerM4 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
There are many contributing factors to the failure of the war on drugs. The biggest issue is our justice system and criminals have too many "rights" that save them from being punished. Corruption might even be a bigger issue than the justice system but either way we are opening up a can of worms.


You obviously have little understanding of the war on drugs and it's history. As per my earlier post - harsh penalties have been tried IT DIDN'T WORK. Seriously - research things like "The 3 strikes" laws of the US. At one point California was throwing teenagers in jail for 25+ years for simple cannabis possession. Spoiler alert - IT DIDN'T WORK.

People who actually have looked into this problem have all come to the same conclusion. Smart people. People who've dedicated their lives to studying the problem. They will all tell you that harsh criminal penalties DON'T WORK. They haven't worked for 60 years, they're not going to start working now. We need to find a different way to deal with this problem. I personally don't like the idea of legalizing but I don't see an alternative and am willing to give anything a try at this point.

Same question as I asked Truth: Do you have a better idea?
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote:
AtlantisKelowna wrote:
There are many contributing factors to the failure of the war on drugs. The biggest issue is our justice system and criminals have too many "rights" that save them from being punished. Corruption might even be a bigger issue than the justice system but either way we are opening up a can of worms.


You obviously have little understanding of the war on drugs and it's history. As per my earlier post - harsh penalties have been tried IT DIDN'T WORK. Seriously - research things like "The 3 strikes" laws of the US. At one point California was throwing teenagers in jail for 25+ years for simple cannabis possession. Spoiler alert - IT DIDN'T WORK.

People who actually have looked into this problem have all come to the same conclusion. Smart people. People who've dedicated their lives to studying the problem. They will all tell you that harsh criminal penalties DON'T WORK. They haven't worked for 60 years, they're not going to start working now. We need to find a different way to deal with this problem. I personally don't like the idea of legalizing but I don't see an alternative and am willing to give anything a try at this point.

Same question as I asked Truth: Do you have a better idea?


Well if you think our legal system is harsh in anyway you need to rethink your argument. The problem is our legal system worries too much about the rights of criminals! If the term "rotting in a cell for the rest of your life" meant exactly that we wouldn't be dealing with these issues.

When our legal system can truly be defined as "Harsh" it will start working, until then all the "smart" people you refer too look just the opposite.
LiamHaddock
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by LiamHaddock »

The war on drugs is a proven failure. Decriminalizing drugs and treating addiction as the health issue it is, really is the only logical way to move forward. It's not politically popular though so nothing will change quick and people will continue to pound their fists in anger and complain about criminal junkies blah blah blah.... I tried to keep a thread on topic in the past (4+ years ago) but realized whats the point going in circles. Unfortunately we just have to wait for more of the old closed minded dinasours to die off and more of the younger youth to become voting adults. And no that doesnt mean I want old people to actually die just their old outdated non progressive views to die they so wish to conserve.

For anyone actually interested in data and other options besides war on drugs... Here's 16+ pages for ya on that old thread. War On Drugs: Failure or Success?


https://forums.castanet.net/viewtopic.php?t=67427
TylerM4
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by TylerM4 »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
Well if you think our legal system is harsh in anyway you need to rethink your argument. The problem is our legal system worries too much about the rights of criminals! If the term "rotting in a cell for the rest of your life" meant exactly that we wouldn't be dealing with these issues.

When our legal system can truly be defined as "Harsh" it will start working, until then all the "smart" people you refer too look just the opposite.


You don't seem to be understanding what I'm telling you. I've said "Harsh penalties have been tried, they didn't work". I am in no way saying that current penalties are harsh. That'd be stupid - they don't work.

You didn't research the history, nor the 3 strikes law did you? You just want to keep beating the same tired old drum regardless or the reality of the situation and nobody is going to change you mind regardless of the facts and history.
bob vernon
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by bob vernon »

There is a choice. On one hand you can leave the distribution of drugs in the hands of criminals who will put any poison in their drugs to make a sale. Fentanyl gets passed off as heroin, icing sugar gets thrown in also. Anything. And users are driven to commit all kinds of crime to get their cash to satisfy their addiction.

Or you could create a safe supply that would be given to addicts with the proviso that they receive counseling. Crime would definitely go down. The load of overdoses would go down. The number of addicts getting off drugs would likely go down as they would be identified for counseling.

The current war on drugs is failing. We are having more and more people becoming addicted and losing their lives.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

TylerM4 wrote:
AtlantisKelowna wrote:
Well if you think our legal system is harsh in anyway you need to rethink your argument. The problem is our legal system worries too much about the rights of criminals! If the term "rotting in a cell for the rest of your life" meant exactly that we wouldn't be dealing with these issues.

When our legal system can truly be defined as "Harsh" it will start working, until then all the "smart" people you refer too look just the opposite.


You don't seem to be understanding what I'm telling you. I've said "Harsh penalties have been tried, they didn't work". I am in no way saying that current penalties are harsh. That'd be stupid - they don't work.

You didn't research the history, nor the 3 strikes law did you? You just want to keep beating the same tired old drum regardless or the reality of the situation and nobody is going to change you mind regardless of the facts and history.


Oh I totally understand! We tried harsh punishments and they didn't work so lets give up. That's all I got from your comment.
The real issue is all the "rights" these criminals get to keep after murdering, raping, assaulting, stealing and whatever else. Our legal system is a joke, there is always a loophole that protects these scummy people and us sitting by and accepting it is why it hasn't worked. The victims of these crimes are the only ones that truly pay with their lives and I really hope it never gets close to home for you to witness or deal with.

I buried my cousin a few years ago who was walking home from work and was killed by a drunk driver and guess what? He served 6 months of a 2 year sentence (2 years is enough for killing someone right) in a low security facility and is now living a normal life once again....but he didn't mean too and he's sorry. How is that justice? Please tell me why the harsh penalties don't work again?
liisgo
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by liisgo »

They only do not work for all the "arm chair" quarter backs that have never, first hand been a victim of someones crime. Far too many people are just puppets of what media is feeding them. Ease up on drug charges??? Wonder if that works for domestic assaults, child porn, B & N's, etc? Lets ease up on it all folks and see where this gets us. Oh wait, we are all ready seeing where it is getting us.
I too lost a family member to a drunk driver. The reason he was driving drunk is because nothing in our society sends a strong enough signal out. Enforcement and penalties doesn't scare anyone.
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the truth
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by the truth »

liisgo wrote:They only do not work for all the "arm chair" quarter backs that have never, first hand been a victim of someones crime. Far too many people are just puppets of what media is feeding them. Ease up on drug charges??? Wonder if that works for domestic assaults, child porn, B & N's, etc? Lets ease up on it all folks and see where this gets us. Oh wait, we are all ready seeing where it is getting us.
I too lost a family member to a drunk driver. The reason he was driving drunk is because nothing in our society sends a strong enough signal out. Enforcement and penalties doesn't scare anyone.


100% CORRECT
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capleton
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by capleton »

liisgo wrote:They only do not work for all the "arm chair" quarter backs that have never, first hand been a victim of someones crime. Far too many people are just puppets of what media is feeding them. Ease up on drug charges??? Wonder if that works for domestic assaults, child porn, B & N's, etc? Lets ease up on it all folks and see where this gets us. Oh wait, we are all ready seeing where it is getting us.
I too lost a family member to a drunk driver. The reason he was driving drunk is because nothing in our society sends a strong enough signal out. Enforcement and penalties doesn't scare anyone.


Comparing possession of drugs and possession of child pornography is stupid, possession of drugs has no victims while child pornography does. Do you drink coffee or drink booze? Those are drugs and comparing them to child porn is what brainwashed people do who watched to many just say no commercials in the 80's
TylerM4
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by TylerM4 »

liisgo wrote:They only do not work for all the "arm chair" quarter backs that have never, first hand been a victim of someones crime. Far too many people are just puppets of what media is feeding them. Ease up on drug charges??? Wonder if that works for domestic assaults, child porn, B & N's, etc? Lets ease up on it all folks and see where this gets us. Oh wait, we are all ready seeing where it is getting us.
I too lost a family member to a drunk driver. The reason he was driving drunk is because nothing in our society sends a strong enough signal out. Enforcement and penalties doesn't scare anyone.


As already mentioned - comparing drug/addiction problems to assault and child porn is just absurd.

But what I really want to dig into is your comment that myself and other supporters have never been a victim of drug related crime:
1st off - give your head a shake buddy, there's almost nobody out there that hasn't been a victim.
2nd - it's usually property crime and a hit in the pocket book, so let's dig into that. Cost of a stolen bike is what? $500 on average? Smashed car window and missing items/change, also about $500. Average cost of keeping a criminal in Jail = $315 every day. If you think you're saving money by keeping these guys in jail you're mistaken. There may be some raging junkies out there who cost us more than $115,000/year in property crime but for the average junkie It's cheaper to replace the property than to keep them in jail.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

capleton wrote: possession of drugs has no victims
Wow! You are way out of touch on this subject if you believe that!
liisgo
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by liisgo »

LiamHaddock wrote:The war on drugs is a proven failure. Decriminalizing drugs and treating addiction as the health issue it is, really is the only logical way to move forward. It's not politically popular though so nothing will change quick and people will continue to pound their fists in anger and complain about criminal junkies blah blah blah.... I tried to keep a thread on topic in the past (4+ years ago) but realized whats the point going in circles. Unfortunately we just have to wait for more of the old closed minded dinasours to die off and more of the younger youth to become voting adults. And no that doesnt mean I want old people to actually die just their old outdated non progressive views to die they so wish to conserve.

For anyone actually interested in data and other options besides war on drugs... Here's 16+ pages for ya on that old thread. War On Drugs: Failure or Success?


viewtopic.php?t=67427
And I would easily argue this. How is your thinking not Closed minded? The problem is getting worse the more we listen to the new generation, the new fluff talk. We are scared to make any moves based on people only having one way of thinking and not being able to actually sit at a table and discuss this without being accused of human rights, discrimination, etc, etc. And decriminalizing, and what is the guidelines for this? Just a chance to ignore people having a, illegal substance with in their possession? Can we proceed with allowing other addictions their item of choice, legally?
Its no wonder why we are failing, this constant signalling of one side always so possessed that they are the great knowledge bearers of society leaving absolutely zero opportunity to resolve the issue's. I'm not saying one or the other will not work, but one thing is not working and that s whats happening now. Everyone else is wrong, but we still have yet to see anyone preaching their ways be successful. Most are hypocrites. Down here in Portland the experts you speak of come and go.
So we will continue to fail until rock bottom and maybe then we can entertain everyone's possible solutions with merit.
I would love to here from anyone how you could go into a rehab in kelowna, walk out the front door into the very same environment that is immersed in the drug addiction world?
Soap boxes is no place to solve issue's.
Dont take offense to this, its not intended to hurt feelings, just a lot of people are getting sick of listening to one sided ways that just continue to fail, have zero merit and effect.
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GordonH
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by GordonH »

It is a shame that people feel they need to self medicate on legal &/or more often illegal drugs.
I don't give a damn whether people/posters like me or dislike me, I'm not on earth to win any popularity contests.
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Blindeyes2020
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by Blindeyes2020 »

No lets not keep giving to and easing up on charges for junkies.
It seems everyone has rights and or are entitled to something except the sport shooting or hunting citizens who work and pay taxes like everyone else.
Thats the problem with this bleeding heart tree hugging country, our priorities are all backwards and the sheep have no common sence. Funny I can't tell what people to do but everyone can tell me what I can and cannot do.
AtlantisKelowna
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Re: Ease up on drug charges

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Ka-El wrote: Yes, because upon the legalization of heroin millions of people will immediately start lining up to throw their lives away through addiction. Let's just keep on doing what we're doing. After all, enforcement has been working so well this last fifty plus years.
Unfortunately if it is legal many people who were curious will have less reason to not try it.

The same thing happened with Cannabis and I have seen it first hand. My in-laws used to think I was some scummy pot head and I barely got their permission to marry my wife. Now that pot is legal they are experimenting and enjoying it very much.

Many people had the same view on cannabis but are now enjoying the benefits of it being legal.

I don't imagine as many would want to jump on the hard drug train but if its legal, free and peaks any interest we will lose yet another soul. Its sad but is a reality you cant deny.

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