The "everything O'Toole" thread

[typhoon44]

As someone who believes a National Pharmacare Program would SAVE money in the long run, it saddens me that neither the Conservatives nor the Liberals felt they could support this Bill. However, it doesn't surprise me, because if either of those Parties was in favour of Pharmacare, it would have been implemented years ago.

That said, to the best of my knowledge the Conservatives have never claimed to support the idea, whereas the Liberals have included it in their election platform on more than one occasion. Therefore, Liberals voting against it today is just another indication of how much they lie about their true intentions.

Liberals are well known for saying one thing while running for office, and doing entirely another once elected. Whereas Conservatives, like them or not, have a history of doing exactly what they say they'll do. Which is one more reason I'll be voting for O'Toole's Conservatives this time round. I've simply had enough of Liberal lies and obfuscation.

Time for a change.

Agreed with the first point. Insurance works best when you amortize the costs over a larger population. Many seniors whose only income is CPP/OAS spend an outsized amount on prescriptions, with or without extended health insurance.

Standing firm on not doing something important is not a beneficial trait, though actions speak loud. The Liberals should be submitting their own proposal if they don't like the NDPs.

Unless O'Toole does something he will absolutely lose the election. Change for change's sake won't be enough.

[jimmy4321]

I think most provinces have some sort of pharmacare or drug assistance, im not certain.
I would like to see a National plan but as little as i know about all the factors involved i do know it would be a long dragged out resource sucking process with the idiot Premiers with no guarantee of success.
So what government wants to put themselves through that except the party with ZERO chance of winning a federal election?

[Gilchy]

Having their whole brand being based around blaming the Liberals for everything has not, and will not, win them the necessary votes to win.

First of all, that's not what the Conservatives are doing, so you are being horribly disingenuous. The Conservatives are doing their job, a job the idiot NDP seems to have abdicated, in calling out Liberal bungling, malfeasance, stupidity and arrogance, and given the large volumes of all of these, it's hard for them to keep up. Just as you characterize this as "red meat", it's just doing their job. Just as there are people out there like me that would never vote Liberal right now with the massive idiot they have for a leader, there are also lunkheads who would keep voting Liberal no matter if Justin murdered a baby on national TV.

So there is a fine line here. Just like in the US, it's the undecideds that determine the election. I remain unconvinced that some of the people posting here would ever vote Conservative, unless the Conservatives abandoned a lot of their principles and just became dough-brained air-headed spend-aholic idiots like their opponents. And that's fine, you want spendaholic idiots in charge, just don't vote Liberal. There's other choices out there who are just as dense or dumber than the Liberals. It's not that hard to understand.

Occasional Conservative Party member here - speaking as an interested yet ultimately undecided voter. Trudeau has disappointed me more than any other politician in memory (except Morneau, I had thought he would have made a business minded Finance Minister, his business tax proposals were a nightmare). The Conservatives should have my vote buttoned up already.

Stunts like this:

While likely intended as a joke, simply serve to remind that "owing the Libs" shouldn't be an overriding motivation. You're a good example of the target market for this type of messaging, which is fine, but it's not going to attract the "middle voter".

I wrote O'Toole and Mackay this same message during the leadership race (I wouldn't touch Sloan with a 10 ft pole). Right, wrong or indifferent, the Conservatives have been playing this anti-Liberal, rather than pro-CPC card, for 3 elections now and it hasn't worked, time to change it up.

And yes, the Liberals constantly run attack ads too, it's equally annoying. Where they have an "advantage" (for lack of a better term) is that they occupy the relative ideological middle in Canada, so they can simply attack either side as extremists, right or left. Doesn't make it morally or factually correct, but the path forward should be positivity.

Canada is a resource based, export driven economy that has just weathered ~15 years of a commodity down cycle. Global commodity prices are spiking, and demand for materials is at a high. The messaging should be all about how Canada can be a economic power and take advantage of this cycle for growth.

[typhoon44]

I think most provinces have some sort of pharmacare or drug assistance, im not certain.
I would like to see a National plan but as little as i know about all the factors involved i do know it would be a long dragged out resource sucking process with the idiot Premiers with no guarantee of success.
So what government wants to put themselves through that except the party with ZERO chance of winning a federal election?

Pharmacare doesn't cover extended health benefits. It covers some drug costs based on income.

[casey60]

I don't trust JT with all his promises re, the vaccine. I think he goofed up and defends it by telling us "its coming its coming" We are now way behind the US Israel and many other countries. The Conservatives under O"Toole, imho, have an issue there that needs to be taken on in the open. We are now at close to the bottom of the list as to vaccinations compared to other countries. People are still dying.

[Merry]

I think most provinces have some sort of pharmacare or drug assistance, im not certain.
I would like to see a National plan but as little as i know about all the factors involved i do know it would be a long dragged out resource sucking process with the idiot Premiers with no guarantee of success.
So what government wants to put themselves through that except the party with ZERO chance of winning a federal election?

Here in BC you have to spend a small fortune before Fair Pharmacare kicks in.

It’s a topic I never gave much thought to, until I retired and was no longer covered by a company plan. But as you age, you often need more prescription medications, just at the same time as also having the added expense of glasses and hearing aids, and losing insurance coverage through your employer. All those things hit all at once, and it can be quite a financial hardship if, like me, your retirement income is less than half what it was when you were working.

Fortunately, my retirement income is higher than many, plus I’m blessed with good health. But my spouse requires both glasses and hearing aids, and does have some chronic health problems. And it’s possibly only a matter of time before I do too.

It’s so easy to think Pharmacare isn’t important when you’re young and healthy, and have health insurance through your job. But it’s a totally different story when you retire.

Even if the Conservatives only supported National Pharmacare for seniors, it would be a big improvement. And it’s something I’d definitely like to see in O’Toole’s platform.

[hobbyguy]

https://www.castanet.net/news/Canada/32 ... der#326047

"Meanwhile, some MPs see focusing on anything but vaccines against COVID-19 a waste of political energy, including the recent vote on China. Others argue that O'Toole's stated focus on jobs — it was the reason Poilievre has a new title as jobs and industry critic, O'Toole says — means little without ideas to advance."

Yup, that has been my point all along. The mini-Scheer O'Toole has has frothed at the mouth about things without any substance to back up his frothing. That's O'Toole and the CPC - all foam, no beer.

"There are other signs of a disconnect emerging between O'Toole and at least some of his caucus.

One is over an upcoming vote in the House of Commons on a ban on conversion therapy. O'Toole says he is against the practice of forcing those questioning their gender or sexual identities into therapy but it's a free vote for his MPs.

The members of his caucus who oppose the ban are organizing their own strategy sessions to frame their planned votes, work that includes O'Toole's deputy chief of staff.

And the well-organized social-conservative wing of the party is gearing up for the Tories' March policy convention.

The effort includes snapping up delegate spots so rapidly that some party stalwarts didn't get one"

So, pro-conversion therapy (yuck!) and we will see the CPC convention raise abortion issues, opposition to MAID and all the other stuff that turns most Canadians away from the CPC highlighted. O'Toole is not a leader, these folks are driving the CPC bus - and O'Toole is just a wobbly wheel along for the ride.

I find it a breath of fresh air, that at least one party allows their members to vote freely, in other words..... they get to stand up for their constituents, nor for mister little potato head.

Your mischaracterization of how other parties operate is rather obvious.

The other parties do things like actually let the party membership determine party policy. Not the CPC. The CPC is the least democratic of the parties.

And don't pretend the CPC allows MPs to vote freely - they don't - witness the treatment of Brent Rathgeber. The CPC runs everything "top down" - with the party "leader" writing the platform.

[mikest2]

Your mischaracterization of how other parties operate is rather obvious.

The other parties do things like actually let the party membership determine party policy. Not the CPC. The CPC is the least democratic of the parties.

And don't pretend the CPC allows MPs to vote freely - they don't - witness the treatment of Brent Rathgeber. The CPC runs everything "top down" - with the party "leader" writing the platform.

In the past during the BCTF strike I found your posts intelligent, interesting and reasonably impartial.
I really wish the teachers would go on strike again.

[The Green Barbarian]

*removed*

[hobbyguy]

Your mischaracterization of how other parties operate is rather obvious.

The other parties do things like actually let the party membership determine party policy. Not the CPC. The CPC is the least democratic of the parties.

And don't pretend the CPC allows MPs to vote freely - they don't - witness the treatment of Brent Rathgeber. The CPC runs everything "top down" - with the party "leader" writing the platform.

In the past during the BCTF strike I found your posts intelligent, interesting and reasonably impartial.
I really wish the teachers would go on strike again.

Just stating facts. No party allows "free votes" by MPs unless it suits their purposes. In the case of the Conversion Therapy vote, O'Toole's purpose is try to balance the outsize role of the CLC theocrats in CPC affairs. O'Toole knows that Conversion Therapy ban legislation will go through regardless of how CPC MPs vote. So O'Toole allows a "free vote" on a done deal.

Every party in Canada does the same thing in Canadian politics. (We recently saw it with the vote on Uyghur genocide from another party.) An issue that is problematic, but is a "done deal" is given the flair a "free vote". The reverse is not true of any political party in Canada when it comes to key issues - a close vote on any issue of importance will be "whipped". In the case of the CPC the Chief Whip is Blake Richards https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Richards.

The difficulty for O'Toole and the CPC is that the Conversion Therapy free vote, while good internal CPC politics, is lousy politics outside of the CPC base. It highlights the outsize role of the CLC theocrats in CPC affairs - which is very problematic for the majority of voters. For many voters, it raises the question of "what would O'Toole and the CPC do if they were to form government?" - and adds to the CPC problem that O'Toole is (in a half-baked fashion) trying to fix - which is that the CPC is the "second choice" of almost no voters from other parties. How does O'Toole expand the appeal of the CPC when they take votes and positions that are clearly against the grain for most Canadians? The CPC has a "hidden agenda" reputation and this Conversion Therapy vote simply adds to that "hidden agenda" problem for O'Toole. It also adds to the problems that for the CPC that O'Toole tried to fix by booting Derek Sloan.

That set of problems is one that O'Toole has to wrestle with.

I was speaking with an independent urban voter before the CPC leadership vote - and he told me that if Peter MacKay, with his more moderate positions and declaration of "the stinking albatross" was elected CPC leader, he would switch his vote - but not so if a less moderate candidate were elected to the leadership position. In other words, a Progressive Conservative would get his vote in a heartbeat. With O'Toole elected leader, he remains suspicious of the CPC.

That kind of voter is "gettable" for O'Toole and the CPC. But not with the antics of Derek Sloan and his ilk, nor with a "free vote" on Conversion Therapy - which squarely and visibly highlights the "stinking albatross" that hangs around the CPC and O'Toole.

[jimmy4321]

MacKay would have made a HUGE difference, seems the more people know O'Toole the less they trust him.

[The Green Barbarian]

MacKay would have made a HUGE difference, seems the more people know O'Toole the less they trust him.

I don't think that's the case at all. MacKay comes with a lot of political baggage, and the idiot Liberal mother-ship would have just come up with a different bunch of garbage to go after MacKay, just like this nonsense about Robert Borden. Robert Borden! Who cares about Robert Borden?? And yet we see babbling fools going on about Robert Borden as some means to smear Erin O'Toole. Erin definitely represents the values of the majority of Canadians, and that will be the way to win elections.

I personally would have preferred Leslyn Lewis, but she needs some more political seasoning. She would make a great Prime Minister, I am sure of it.

[jimmy4321]

"Conservative leader Erin O'Toole hits turbulence over carbon tax and CBC cuts"

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2021/0 ... carbon-tax

[hobbyguy]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion ... hard-base/

"It’s hard not to be sympathetic to the plight of Conservative Party Leader Erin O’Toole these days. There are two big things standing between him and the Prime Minister’s Office: the Trudeau Liberals, and his own party."

SNIP

"The pandemic’s net political effect has been to reverse the scandal-prone Mr. Trudeau’s dismal approval ratings, taking them from 33 per cent one year ago – when pipeline and rail blockades (remember those?) dominated the news – to 50 per cent this week, according to polling firm Angus Reid. Using a national crisis to railroad the agenda and curtail the opposition will do that."

Mr. O’Toole now faces the prospect of an election later this year, when Mr. Trudeau hopes that any lingering anger over his government’s clumsy vaccination rollout and the country’s generally mediocre COVID-19 performance will be erased by a steady delivery of jabs and a resulting sense of relief that will play in his party’s favour.

Overcoming the Liberals’ strategic advantage is where Mr. O’Toole’s own party could make life difficult for him."

SNIP

From the current looks of it, that won’t be easy. Mr. O’Toole has tried reaching out to broaden the base but, when he does, he gets resistance from his own caucus

It’s partly his own fault. Campaigning for the party leadership, Mr. O’Toole portrayed himself as a tax-cutting “true blue” Conservative – he loudly opposed the federal carbon tax – who would “Take Back Canada.”

After becoming Leader, he also started going after “bad trade deals” and “corporate and financial elites, who are happy to outsource jobs abroad.” His sound bites were light on content, but the language was more than a little Trumpian.

SNIP

"That’s not something the Leader of Canada’s government-in-waiting should ever have to say. But Mr. O’Toole is under pressure from some Conservative MPs to support viewpoints, many imported from the United States, that appeal to their voters, and with which he himself has flirted.

The result can be seen in the latest polls. Liberal support is dropping, but so is support for the Conservatives. Liberal failures aren’t benefiting the Tories. Too many Canadians do not see them as their alternative.

Mr. O’Toole is today caught between a rock – the Liberals’ electoral machinations – and the hardening of his party’s base. One of them has to give way for the Conservatives to succeed, and it’s not going to be the Liberals."

Pretty much agreeing with what I have been saying. In essence, the CPC base is moving further right - and away from the mainstream of voters. No matter what O'Toole says, that keeps bubbling up issues that turn many, many voters right off. The CPC under Scheer and now O'Toole is rapidly becoming what the BC NDP used to be, as John Horgan described it, a "party of grievance" - except the far right version instead of far left.

[The Green Barbarian]

Pretty much agreeing with what I have been saying.

And what you've been saying has been complete and utter nonsense. The biggest asset to the CPC is that they represent the values of the majority of Canadians. The second biggest asset is the buffoonish Castro-loving clown Justin. There are so many things going in Erin and the Conservatives favor right now. Liberal loving politcos can babble away to try and support their guy, but the fact is, until Justin disavows himself of the love he expressed publicly for a gay-hating murdering Cuban dictator, that is just going to stick to him, and drag him down into the abyss.

The majority of Canadians do not idolize gay-hating dictators. Justin got the Liberals into this mess, and he's the only one who can get them out again. Go Erin! Keep representing the values of the majority of Canadians!