Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

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cyruslosco66
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Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by cyruslosco66 »

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/ ... -death-of/

I suspect in the end he will only be charged with littering
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Brass Monkey
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Brass Monkey »

I don’t know why but for some awful reason this is the first I’m hearing of this.
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GordonH
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by GordonH »

I’ve saying this for years now, the justice system doesn’t give a damn about victims.

Criminals should be grateful for what Papa Trudeau did for all of them, in what he placed in the constitution.
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Ken7
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Ken7 »

Not defending any actions as I am one who believes "Life should be Life".

Sadly without evidence the Crown sometime has no other options. If you take time to read the link you may understand why they can no proceed with a murder charge. I can't imagine being a sibling.

https://www.accused.ca/murder.htm
Last edited by Ken7 on Sep 23rd, 2020, 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
36Drew
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by 36Drew »

The TLDR of the difference between Manslaughter and Murder is intent. Murder requires intent, and a successful conviction requires the prosecution to prove - beyond a reasonable doubt - that there was intent. The manslaughter charge requires the prosecution to prove the accused did something wrong, and the victim died because of it.

This has nothing to do with believing the victims. It has everything to do with seeking a successful conviction and can, in fact, be seen as an effort to better seek justice for the victims. Or to bring it around to the above comments - would the naysayers be happy the accused got to walk if the crown couldn't prove intent?
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Salistala
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Salistala »

There was an intent to harm, hard to prove an intent to kill.

But the woman was targeted for being indigenous ("I got one!!"), the 10-15lb steel trailer hitch thrown from a moving vehicle lacerating her small intestine leading to a 6-month wasting away and the inevitable death from organ failure.

The intent to injure a random First Nation person specifically for being FN should (but probably won't) be enough to add on a hate crime designation.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by 36Drew »

Salistala wrote:There was an intent to harm, hard to prove an intent to kill.[/quite]

...and hence the manslaughter charge instead of a murder charge. It's been explained a few times in this forum - manslaughter only requires the crown prove the accused's actions caused the victim's death. There's no need to prove intent nor motive.

Salistala wrote:But the woman was targeted for being indigenous ("I got one!!"), the 10-15lb steel trailer hitch thrown from a moving vehicle lacerating her small intestine leading to a 6-month wasting away and the inevitable death from organ failure.

The intent to injure a random First Nation person specifically for being FN should (but probably won't) be enough to add on a hate crime designation.


Are you referring to a human rights act violation? How do you think that's going to help the manslaughter case?
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Salistala wrote:There was an intent to harm, hard to prove an intent to kill.


Intended or not if your actions result in the loss of life you should suffer for the rest of yours.

Salistala wrote:But the woman was targeted for being indigenous ("I got one!!"), the 10-15lb steel trailer hitch thrown from a moving vehicle lacerating her small intestine leading to a 6-month wasting away and the inevitable death from organ failure.

The intent to injure a random First Nation person specifically for being FN should (but probably won't) be enough to add on a hate crime designation.


Why are you so quick to assume it was racially motivated? These idiots had set out to injure someone and the victim could have been from many different backgrounds. Automatically it is a racially motivated hate crime? This thinking is part of the problem. Get the facts before spreading rumors and creating more hate! So sick of this race BS
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Salistala »

AtlantisKelowna wrote: Why are you so quick to assume it was racially motivated? ...


Why are you so quick to assume it's not?

I assume because it happened in Thunder Bay, a notoriously racist city towards FN ppl. For evidence look no further than this Facebook Page: "Thunder Bay Courthouse - Inside Edition". I just finished reading some of the comments related to this case. I wish I didn't. So depressing to read the naked hate the people there have for FN ppl. What an awful place, full of awful people.

Then I read a report written by the Office of the Independent Police Review Director (an independent, arm’s length agency of the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General) called Broken Trust: Indigenous People and the Thunder Bay Police Service, that details the brutally superficial service indigenous people get from those that "Serve and Protect". I could go on and dig deeper to see more evidence of the institutional racism that seeps from Thunder Bay, but I just can't

Maybe there is an infinitesimal chance this incident was not motivated by race, maybe the perp truly was only out to throw a trailer hitch at some random person minding their own while walking on the street. That is an even more horrifying possibility.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by AtlantisKelowna »

Salistala wrote:
AtlantisKelowna wrote: Why are you so quick to assume it was racially motivated? ...


Why are you so quick to assume it's not?

I assume because it happened in Thunder Bay, a notoriously racist city towards FN ppl. For evidence look no further than this Facebook Page: "Thunder Bay Courthouse - Inside Edition". I just finished reading some of the comments related to this case. I wish I didn't. So depressing to read the naked hate the people there have for FN ppl. What an awful place, full of awful people.

Then I read a report written by the Office of the Independent Police Review Director (an independent, arm’s length agency of the Ontario Ministry of the Attorney General) called Broken Trust: Indigenous People and the Thunder Bay Police Service, that details the brutally superficial service indigenous people get from those that "Serve and Protect". I could go on and dig deeper to see more evidence of the institutional racism that seeps from Thunder Bay, but I just can't

Maybe there is an infinitesimal chance this incident was not motivated by race, maybe the perp truly was only out to throw a trailer hitch at some random person minding their own while walking on the street. That is an even more horrifying possibility.


So basically your still gong to push your hate without specific facts relating to the case? Like these idiots weren't recording the entire thing so I'm sure the truth will come out but until then don't be one of those people. We have enough hatred you dont need to create more with your assumptions.

I don't use Facebook for real information and although there could be some gross comments on a page it doesn't mean that it speaks for all Canadians.

The institutional racism you speak of is an issue in many parts of Canada. It has no relation to these young punks and shouldn't be used to try and push your racial agenda.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by ferri »

*Stay on topic and stop making this personal.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Salistala »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
So basically your still gong to push your hate...try and push your racial agenda.


You are entirely wrong about the hate, I don't hate white people. Spoiler Alert!! I'm half Scottish Canadian, I know my roots in Scotland and I'm very proud of my heritage, but I am visibly First Nations and am treated that way in my daily life.

I hate intolerance and discrimination, especially directed to marginalized and overlooked people, whether it be First Nations or LGBQT or Jews or women or African Canadians or any other group that faces it. I believe in an equality of individuals and will advocate for equality between groups.

You can go look at any post I have ever written and you will never find any statement of hate to any identifiable group, it is only to express frustration and opposition to individuals or institutions that practice discrimination and hate.

When I talk to institutional discrimination, I'm speaking of the legal system, the financial institutions, the government; the sources of power that the majority control and wield over the minority. If you feel that these institutions are egalitarian and fair then you are probably the beneficiary of your similarity in appearance and ideology to these power brokers. For me personally, it hasn't always been great.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Salistala »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
I don't use Facebook for real information and although there could be some gross comments on a page it doesn't mean that it speaks for all Canadians.


Maybe not for all Canadians and people of Thunder Bay, but there is a segment of Thunder Bay that is virulently, brutally racist towards FN ppl.

"real information"? the comments are unfiltered real thoughts of people willing to put their name behind it, you think they were kidding?

*Let's put some real awful thoughts on Facebook with my real name, For..a..Joke, won't that be funny? The joke is they'll think I really think that that lady deserved to die because she's a lazy alcoholic.....but I don't think that at all!!! That'll be hilarious!!!*

I think my belief is closer to the truth, they do think these awful thoughts, and they don't feel any reservation in expressing them with their real name. They feel safe saying their true thoughts because they won't face any consequences for being true to themselves amongst others that feel the same way. If they were in the minority, which is what a true egalitarian would hope for, there might be a tiny chance they would have second thoughts about expressing this filth publicly for fear of being publicly doxxed and losing their jobs and the respect of their more moderate friends.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by Salistala »

AtlantisKelowna wrote:
...these idiots...these young punks....


One thing that does stick out to me about your comments is the assertion that the perpetrators acted as individuals and their behavior is not representative of their group; that is, there is no real problem with racism in the attack.

That is interesting to me because it is an illustration of a psychological concept called In Group/Out Group Association

It's been demonstrated that people will associate any positive characteristics of individuals within the group they see themselves in (their In Group) as a characteristic of the whole group, and any negative characteristics as only representing the characteristics of the individual.

The opposite is true of the Out Group (the others), that is any positive characteristics as only representing the characteristics of the individual, and the negative characteristics of individuals within the other group as a characteristic of the whole group.
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Re: Charges Down Graded In Death Of First Nations Woman

Post by rustled »

Salistala wrote:
AtlantisKelowna wrote:
...these idiots...these young punks....


One thing that does stick out to me about your comments is the assertion that the perpetrators acted as individuals and their behavior is not representative of their group; that is, there is no real problem with racism in the attack.

That is interesting to me because it is an illustration of a psychological concept called In Group/Out Group Association

It's been demonstrated that people will associate any positive characteristics of individuals within the group they see themselves in (their In Group) as a characteristic of the whole group, and any negative characteristics as only representing the characteristics of the individual.

The opposite is true of the Out Group (the others), that is any positive characteristics as only representing the characteristics of the individual, and the negative characteristics of individuals within the other group as a characteristic of the whole group.

Which is why, to me, this horrible incident illustrates the inevitable consequence of "othering", and the completely predictable harms done to individuals. These women and their families are among the countless individuals who bear the brunt of what "Group" think continues to sow: "othering" and more "Group".

We are continually assured there's some "greater good" to be met by today's version of socially approved stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination - today's version of grouping - the fixation on victim/oppressor narratives for the purposes of social engineering. This relies on the same mechanisms as all previous versions of "grouping" - drawing attention to our differences via stereotype, prejudice and discrimination.

"Grouping" is the natural and necessary consequence of promoting any victim/oppressor narrative - conferring victim status on one group and oppressor status on the "other". There will always be tension and backlash between people in the group designated "victim" and people in the group designated "oppressor" as blame and fault are established (more often exacerbating existing problems and introducing new problems rather than addressing or mitigating or solving problems currently affecting individuals), and eventually, as we see here, there will be violence.

We will not solve the problems of "Group" think by reinforcing "Group" mentality. No real good can come of it, and the obvious negative consequences hurt individuals. Individuals who can never be better served by the social engineering of "Group" think, than by a move away from stereotyping, prejudice and discrimination - back to respecting everyone as individuals with their own lived experience.

So we have two women who were, in all likelihood, targeted as a result of "Group" think woven into the social fabric of their greater community, and still we have ardent, earnest supporters of "Group" think assuring us the way to a better future for all of us is through ever more stereotyping, ever more prejudice, ever more discrimination, ever more "Grouping" as required to support the social engineering of critical theory. Critical theory is proving to be a very poor substitute for thinking critically about what the stereotyping required for the "Group" think of the victim/oppressor narrative is actually costing us.
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