The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

bob vernon
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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It's time for the Conservatives to have a leadership review and everybody put their cards on the table. With 54 percent of the party believing that climate change is a hoax, and even more against a carbon tax, and a leader who wants a carbon tax, something has to give. Get this review done. There's not likely to be a spring election and a new leader who reflects the beliefs of the party can be in place by the fall when an election is much more likely.
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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rustled
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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bob vernon wrote:It's time for the Conservatives to have a leadership review and everybody put their cards on the table. With 54 percent of the party believing that climate change is a hoax, and even more against a carbon tax, and a leader who wants a carbon tax, something has to give. Get this review done. There's not likely to be a spring election and a new leader who reflects the beliefs of the party can be in place by the fall when an election is much more likely.
Coming from people who have yet to call for a desperately needed leadership review in the party the Conservatives will be running against, this recommendation is beyond precious, beyond utterly adorable.

:topic: We get that the belief in apocalyptic global warming has achieved a religion-like following, the same sort of fearful worship that had people tossing virgins into volcanoes. The ritual and dogma of the high priests of climate change won't be willingly discarded overnight, and efforts to scale down belief among the faithful won't be welcomed by the faithful - those still in the thrall of CAGW worship.

Given what Churchill famously said about the average voter, with this sort of "we must have a climate plan!" fervor gripping the populace, the process of working us away from governance by climate superstition, back to the reasoned application of sensible policies based on reason and logic, will take time. The Conservatives are best positioned for this, and whatever plan they come up with will of course be scorned by anyone still faithfully adhering to the CAGW apocalyptic rapture doctrines, and by anyone supporting same for strictly partisan purposes. Still, scale back we must. Time to retire the high priests and their purchased penances, and bring back reason.
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The Green Barbarian
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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bob vernon wrote:It's time for the Conservatives to have a leadership review and everybody put their cards on the table. With 54 percent of the party believing that climate change is a hoax,.
This isn't true at all. No one believes that the climate doesn't change.
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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The Conservative plan is smarter and more fair for Canadians who will benefit from incentives and fewer punitive measures. It invests money in to Canadian research and improvements in to real infrastructure. Unlike the Liberal/NDP/Green plan to keep raising taxes until heating, cooling, and food are unaffordable or we are all bankrupt. Avoiding starvation caused by punitive measures does not get everyone onboard.

Canadians have to take responsibility for Canada. It is not realistic to compensate for other countries in order to "Save the world". Conservatives have offered some good think-tanking towards a more realistic solution that I believe is measurably more beneficial than the liberal plan which is extreme taxation and opaque spending.

Even with no plan and no tax, Canada's per-capita CO2 foot-print continues to fall since old vehicles and buildings are continually and naturally replaced, and coal is swapped for gas. Also, high immigration will increase emissions.

There has been a complete avoidance of climate debate and many prefer to remain deluded or intentionally push a falsehood without question. Politicians, media, and activists, and many climate models portray a picture which is mostly untrue. Insurance companies are more than happy to follow the doom and gloom narratives since they get to increase rates.

Here is a scientific survey giving us a glimpse of voter delusion for the US.

Example:
76% of Trump voters think that the average income of middle-income households fell during the Obama administration. In reality, their inflation-adjusted average income rose by $5,300 during this period.
88% of Biden voters think that police are more likely to use lethal force when arresting black people than white people. In reality, police are 42% less likely to use lethal force when arresting blacks than whites.

On average, the rates at which voters gave false answers varied from 61% for Biden voters to 42% for Trump voters. From worst to best, the false answer rates for the various groups are as follows:

61% for Biden voters
56% for 18- to 34-year olds
53% for females
51% for 35- to 64-year olds
51% for 65+ year olds
49% for males
42% for Trump voters

https://www.justfacts.com/news_2020_sur ... ge#results
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/ ... -emitters/

O’Toole says he’ll keep Trudeau’s $170/tonne carbon tax on industrial emitters
Many in the Conservative party joined in the howls of outrage when the Liberals announced they would increase the carbon tax to that figure last year.
rustled
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Jlabute wrote:The Conservative plan is smarter and more fair for Canadians who will benefit from incentives and fewer punitive measures. It invests money in to Canadian research and improvements in to real infrastructure. Unlike the Liberal/NDP/Green plan to keep raising taxes until heating, cooling, and food are unaffordable or we are all bankrupt. Avoiding starvation caused by punitive measures does not get everyone onboard.

Canadians have to take responsibility for Canada. It is not realistic to compensate for other countries in order to "Save the world". Conservatives have offered some good think-tanking towards a more realistic solution that I believe is measurably more beneficial than the liberal plan which is extreme taxation and opaque spending.

Even with no plan and no tax, Canada's per-capita CO2 foot-print continues to fall since old vehicles and buildings are continually and naturally replaced, and coal is swapped for gas. Also, high immigration will increase emissions.

There has been a complete avoidance of climate debate and many prefer to remain deluded or intentionally push a falsehood without question. Politicians, media, and activists, and many climate models portray a picture which is mostly untrue. Insurance companies are more than happy to follow the doom and gloom narratives since they get to increase rates.

Here is a scientific survey giving us a glimpse of voter delusion for the US.

Example:
76% of Trump voters think that the average income of middle-income households fell during the Obama administration. In reality, their inflation-adjusted average income rose by $5,300 during this period.
88% of Biden voters think that police are more likely to use lethal force when arresting black people than white people. In reality, police are 42% less likely to use lethal force when arresting blacks than whites.

On average, the rates at which voters gave false answers varied from 61% for Biden voters to 42% for Trump voters. From worst to best, the false answer rates for the various groups are as follows:

61% for Biden voters
56% for 18- to 34-year olds
53% for females
51% for 35- to 64-year olds
51% for 65+ year olds
49% for males
42% for Trump voters

https://www.justfacts.com/news_2020_sur ... ge#results
This is really interesting, Jlabute.

What's particularly impressive to me is how closely people guard their biases and beliefs, at a time when it is so easy to see when they've been misled by fear mongers whose predictions have so obviously failed so miserably. Peoples' instincts go to "howls of outrage" about non-compliance with dogma, while ignoring the negative consequences of the dogma.

It will take some time for people to calm down and become rational thinkers on this topic - won't happen before the upcoming election, and the Conservatives seem prepared for this reality. And for the reality that CAGW is not an altar at which anyone should be worshipping anymore.
Ideology...gives evil-doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination...[it] is the social theory which helps to make his actions seem good instead of bad in his own and others' eyes...
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d0nb
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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One problem with the Conservative plan is that many voters will see the replacement of the carbon rebate giveaway with ‘green’ spending credits as something akin to substituting a child’s allowance with vouchers for socks, school supplies and veggie sticks. It might be ‘good’ for them, but it is unlikely to win a popularity contest, or an election.
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Jlabute
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Perhaps you could give your opinion on what "common ground" means between denier and alarmist and what compromise each side might consider?

Climate Change has a political policy crisis because climate change has an epistemological crisis.

The problem is that Liberals are NOT pushing science. Media, activists, and some politicians do not reflect real climate science. Climate science has been hidden under the bed and ignored while a scientific integrity war unseen by the public has been raging for years. Thousands of scientific claims have been proven wrong over the decades. The IPCC who themselves are on the fringe make no claim of catastrophic change or an urgency, so why should we.

Benji is an advocate for 'unity' but advocates mostly for a one-sided economic green solution and system change and is too shy to use the word “nuclear” in his push for forms of clean energy. He's not following his elder Michael Shellenberger. Is some warming beneficial? Is there a single activist that has pondered this?

What is the solution?
Jump together in unity to the tune of a lie? Is this the new conservative approach with a little more compromise?
Or do we ALL try to understand what science says about climate?
What do you think is better for society?
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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Septuagenarian wrote:So, is the climate change alarmists meeting in tent with the climate change deniers one of the barriers to getting us together?
Hard to get climate change alarmists to meet with people that don't exist.
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Re: The Conservative climate plan is a sad joke

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