Bill C-10

[rustled]

So finally it moves forward, after two weeks of filibuster from the CPC.

This is a disgusting display of communistic evil.

Anyone supporting the evil Liberals should be hanging their heads in absolute shame.

No need for the Conservatives to hang their heads in shame, though.

According to hobbyguy, they simply agreed

• to move things forward by:
  
  1. Getting an updated Charter Statement from the Minister of Justice.
  2. Getting updated information from the Heritage Minister.
  3. Having an expert panel in, 1 expert per party (so 4) to discuss the revised Charter Statement.
  4. Only then proceeding with further clause by clause on C-10. (Likely after a 1 week delay for the above 3.)

What the filibuster did was bring this to the attention of FAR more Canadians than would otherwise have noticed what the Trudeau Liberals have been up to while we've been distracted with the pandemic, etc.

So while hobbyguy will not acknowledge the importance of this (instead, naturally, he complains very bitterly about it), I think most of us realize how important it is we are in the loop on this bill - and I sincerely thank the Conservatives for making sure this isn't another bad policy fait accompli, courtesy of the Trudeau Liberals.

If and when this bill does pass, it will NOT do so without public scrutiny. Hence the current desperation of the Trudeau Liberal supporters to convince the general public "there is a threat! Democracy is in danger!"

Best we all keep our wits about us, rather than allow ourselves to be used as pawns in their drive for public opinion to support another bad policy.

[Smurf]

I actually think that the misuse of selected information is one of the biggest problems we have. The mainstream media is terrible for doing that to put the spin they want on a subject. It is not false news, it is true, but the real meaning is changed by leaving out certain information. Terrible reporting as far as I am concerned. It is amazing how you can listen to or read two different reports on exactly the same thing and they are altogether different. It takes some time and energy to find the real truth and the media knows that many people will not do it. People will just go with what they want to believe which might not be the actual truth. Politicians and their supporters realize that and play to it. Often with great results for something that is not actually true.

Polls frequently used to great advantage by asking loaded questions and then claiming that a majority feels a certain way. These polls are as bad, if not worse than misleading media reports. The internet has it's problems but I am not sure they are that much worse than mainstream actions. People get caught up in both.

[hobbyguy]

I actually think that the misuse of selected information is one of the biggest problems we have. The mainstream media is terrible for doing that to put the spin they want on a subject. It is not false news, it is true, but the real meaning is changed by leaving out certain information. Terrible reporting as far as I am concerned. It is amazing how you can listen to or read two different reports on exactly the same thing and they are altogether different. It takes some time and energy to find the real truth and the media knows that many people will not do it. People will just go with what they want to believe which might not be the actual truth. Politicians and their supporters realize that and play to it. Often with great results for something that is not actually true.

Polls frequently used to great advantage by asking loaded questions and then claiming that a majority feels a certain way. These polls are as bad, if not worse than misleading media reports. The internet has it's problems but I am not sure they are that much worse than mainstream actions. People get caught up in both.

Trust in all sources of information has fallen significantly since 2012. Looking at the Edelman numbers, Traditional Media has only a 53% trust rating, owned media has only 41% trust rating, and social media only 35%. Government leaders are pretty low too at 41% (57% feel politicians are trying to mislead them).

That's a sad state of affairs. The numbers are somewhat better in Canada but still on the very skeptical side with Canada at 55% average. The USA is quite distrustful at 44% average and Russia "owns the basement" at 28% trust.

Part of the issue is information overload. If one is interested in finding out about a subject one can quickly find 10 diverging sources on the internet. In the bronze age when I was growing up we had the newspaper and Walter Cronkite (my dad liked to watch US news at the time when TVs were rare - let alone having more that one.)

Polls are tricky. They can be structured to say something like "do you prefer a, b, or c - when in fact many people prefer d or q. Political polls are more straightforward, as they always give the total options available in the area.

We will always have gaslighting politicians, crooked advertising etc. But those are fairly easy to spot.

The tricky part is with social media where outright lies abound. That won't change much as C-10 does not cover user content.

The part they are wrestling with in C-10 is ensuring that for profit internet only media outlets are all covered. The Rebel and DeSmog are a couple that come to mind (although I'm not sure about their profit status). If they get classified as "broadcasters" so to speak, then would not the broadcasters code apply? https://www.cbsc.ca/codes/

I see problems with some such internet broadcasters when they get to the ethics code.

Plus where do you draw the line? If a person runs a youtube channel for $$$ (and some do) then how much profit allowed etc.

My bet is that in the end, no content regulation will apply (outside of existing porn and anti-hate laws). That will wind up being spelled out clearly (it is actually already in C-10 but not clear to the average reader).

[hobbyguy]

rustled - what I detailed is essentially what the Liberals, NDP and Bloc members wanted to do almost two weeks ago - until the CPC parachuted Harder in to filibuster and obstruct.

The CPC accomplished nothing - as usual - except to delay things so that O'Toole could gaslight Canadians.

The committee was always working to refine and improve C-10, including I gather MP Waugh and some of the other CPC members, until O'Toole decided he wanted to gaslight Canadians for "points". Rachel Harder was not involved in the Heritage Committee until a couple of weeks ago when O'Toole started gaslighting and then Harder parachuted in to cause trouble, obstruct and filibuster.

There is absolutely zero constructive about anything the O'Toole CPC has done regarding C-10.

[The Green Barbarian]

There is absolutely zero constructive about anything the O'Toole CPC has done regarding C-10.

On behalf of all Canadians I would like to thank the CPC and Erin O'Toole for standing up for Canadians against evil and tyranny being wrought by truly evil and disgusting Liberal scum. Keep up the good fight Erin! Remember - democracy dies in darkness, and evil triumphs when good men do nothing. Erin is doing something, and he's a good man, fighting some truly horrifying and evil people in the Liberal party, trying to push this disgusting and evil Bill. Shame on you Liberals - you have lost the right to call yourselves Canadians.

[fluffy]

The tricky part is with social media where outright lies abound. That won't change much as C-10 does not cover user content.

Bingo. And anything directed at individual users, be they liars or worse, treads on free speech guarantees.

I’ve surrendered to the fact that getting at some semblance of truth takes some work, but I’m also increasingly aware that lots of people won’t take that time, or simply don’t have the time to observe due diligence in filtering through political bias and hidden agendas. And when you have too many people making decisions based on bad information all hell will eventually break lose as the followers end up following the wrong people.

[rustled]

rustled - what I detailed is essentially what the Liberals, NDP and Bloc members wanted to do almost two weeks ago - until the CPC parachuted Harder in to filibuster and obstruct.

That filibuster got the attention of a whole lot of people and put eyeballs on Bill C-10 - its purported intent and the consequences.

The Trudeau Liberals are NOT transparent, and this is yet another case in point.

You are STILL doing their bidding - amplifying their "Threat! Threat! We must act to save democracy!" scare tactic to convince people some action is better than none, even if we don't understand that action or its consequences.

Good policy isn't built by hiding in the dark and scaring people into supporting "doing something". It's the Trudeau Liberal way. They did it with their majority and now they're trying to continue despite having lost that majority.

You're desperate to plough ahead with Bill C-10, because you still trust the Trudeau Liberals and they've convinced you it's in our best interests to "do something".

Those of us who stopped trusting the Trudeau Liberals years ago, when they first proved they couldn't be trusted to act in our best interests, are fine with starting the entire process over from scratch, under the scrutiny of the public.

[hobbyguy]

rustled - what I detailed is essentially what the Liberals, NDP and Bloc members wanted to do almost two weeks ago - until the CPC parachuted Harder in to filibuster and obstruct.

That filibuster got the attention of a whole lot of people and put eyeballs on Bill C-10 - its purported intent and the consequences.

The Trudeau Liberals are NOT transparent, and this is yet another case in point.

You are STILL doing their bidding - amplifying their "Threat! Threat! We must act to save democracy!" scare tactic to convince people some action is better than none, even if we don't understand that action or its consequences.

Good policy isn't built by hiding in the dark and scaring people into supporting "doing something". It's the Trudeau Liberal way. They did it with their majority and now they're trying to continue despite having lost that majority.

You're desperate to plough ahead with Bill C-10, because you still trust the Trudeau Liberals and they've convinced you it's in our best interests to "do something".

Those of us who stopped trusting the Trudeau Liberals years ago, when they first proved they couldn't be trusted to act in our best interests, are fine with starting the entire process over from scratch, under the scrutiny of the public.

There is nothing more transparent that laying out proposed legislation and working through parliament and the committee process. It is all there, out in the open, and recorded for you to read and now even archived webcasts.

It is all out there for public scrutiny.

I get that some will only trust their view of who should be in power, however, we have the best possible situation in Canada to look at such issues - a minority government that can not "ram" things through.

C-10 is only a beginning of a process. It is in fact not a huge step, and will never be law if indeed it infringes on the Charter. It will not pass if it does because neither the Bloc nor the NDP would vote for it. If it id pass containing violation of the charter, the civil liberties folks would be all over it and the SCOC would toss it if it did. (We have seen that many times with legislation passed by majority governments, but it is exceedingly rare in minority governments).

C-10 is imperfect as it stands, the process is underway to refine it and deal with the issues. Obstructing that process for political theater purposes and gaslighting, as the O'Toole CPC did, does not serve Canadians well.

[Glacier]

Good informative video...

[Smurf]

Hobbyguy wrote:

snip!
I get that some will only trust their view of who should be in power, however, we have the best possible situation in Canada to look at such issues - a minority government that can not "ram" things through.

Very true Hobbyguy and by the same token if the other parties agreed with it they could aid the Liberals to pass it. They are not doing that because it is not passing the smell test so it is being discussed further until enough agree with it. That is the system.

[fluffy]

...if the other parties agreed with it they could aid the Liberals to pass it. They are not doing that because it is not passing the smell test so it is being discussed further until enough agree with it. That is the system.

Another perspective would be that the Conservatives are opposing the bill because they smell political opportunity. Perhaps their true motivation is to paint the Liberals as self-serving censors. Seriously, what’s more believable, that the Cons want to protect the rights of average Canadians or that they want to score a few political points ?

There is no doubt in my mind that there are people making noise on the internet that don’t deserve to be there, people opening touting racism and fomenting violence, and that there are some major for-profit platforms that are making it easy for these people to reach large audiences. Personally I see the idea that regulators could have to power to at least shrink the audience access of these criminals as a good thing.

[rustled]

...if the other parties agreed with it they could aid the Liberals to pass it. They are not doing that because it is not passing the smell test so it is being discussed further until enough agree with it. That is the system.

Another perspective would be that the Conservatives are opposing the bill because they smell political opportunity. Perhaps their true motivation is to paint the Liberals as self-serving censors. Seriously, what’s more believable, that the Cons want to protect the rights of average Canadians or that they want to score a few political points ?

There is no doubt in my mind that there are people making noise on the internet that don’t deserve to be there, people opening touting racism and fomenting violence, and that there are some major for-profit platforms that are making it easy for these people to reach large audiences. Personally I see the idea that regulators could have to power to at least shrink the audience access of these criminals as a good thing.

Would you trust the Conservatives with the power to control these regulators?

Never give the government a tool you wouldn't trust in the hands of one of their political opponents.

[fluffy]

Would you trust the Conservatives with the power to control these regulators?

Who controls the CRTC ? They’ve been around since 1976.

[rustled]

Would you trust the Conservatives with the power to control these regulators?

Who controls the CRTC ? They’ve been around since 1976.

Start at 7:00 (although the rest is worth listening to) https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=2198393

The government of the day will continue to have the ability to make sure the CRTC is "doing the right thing".

So: if at some time in the future we have a Conservative majority government, will you be comfortable trusting them with this tool?

[mikest2]

Would you trust the Conservatives with the power to control these regulators?

Who controls the CRTC ? They’ve been around since 1976.

Appointed by the GGC for five year terms, if that's not a political appointment, nothing is

https://crtc.gc.ca/eng/acrtc/organ.htm